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Great stuff. I have to admit I'm now imagining Charlton Heston in Airplane!
I've got high hopes for Scoop but I fear the 1960s will be rough on his New Deal sensibilities.
I've got high hopes for Scoop but I fear the 1960s will be rough on his New Deal sensibilities.
Kurt_Steiner: Why not? It isn't like this story hasn't had its' share of odd Minister picks (thanks Paradox). I made the decision to put Reagan in Labor for story reasons as you will see.
No. Charlton Heston stills plays Ben-Hur. I decided to give Nielsen the role of Messala after one of the readers asked about Nielsen's acting career TTL. I was also inspired by an alternate history story in which Reagan didn’t go into politics in the ‘60s and instead continued his acting career (he ended up starring in “The Graduate” and “2001: A Space Odyssey” if I remember correctly).
Thanks. I'm glad to see that the waiting time paid off.
H.Appleby: Thanks. My job and the holidays were really kicking my butt as far as posting the update is concerned.
Three of the JSOC choices come from the HOI game while Rickover comes from my research. It turns out that Jackson was his political supporter and they were friends despite Rickover's famous lack of personal diplomacy.
As for Reagan, you'll see him around.
Indeed. Jackson is going to find out over the next few years that having Johnson as his Vice President is a double-edged sword.
Senator John Connally came about as a result of a reader suggestion. As for Senator Bobby Kennedy, he got the job because Ted is ineligible to become a Senator in 1961. Originally I was going to make JFK Ambassador to France and have RFK tag along as his right-hand man. They would both bring their families along with them to Paris just as Joe Kennedy brought his family along with him to London when he was the Ambassador to the UK. However after I made the decision to put Connally in the Senate, this left the Secretary of the Navy post wide open (historically JFK gave Connally that job). Because Jack loved the sea and of course was the skipper of the PT-109, I reconsidered what I was doing and decided to abandon my original idea in favor of putting JFK in charge of the Navy. Once I made that decision, putting Bobby in the Senate fell into place. As for Ted Kennedy, since his brother is occupying his OTL Senate seat, I need to find something else for him to do. I'm thinking about keeping Ted in Massachusetts and have him become TTL's Michael Dukakis as far as the political path is concerned.
c0d5579: Yeah. There's going to be fun in the Navy. As for Nimitz, I think he would publically endorse Rickover as CNO but at the moment I don't see him doing more than that.
I might mention the interservice head-butting you brought up at some point. However, considering I have dealt with the military in a largely abstract fashion, I can't promise to get too much into the military weeds.
Just like WW2, I plan to fight Vietnam quite differently.
Mr. Santiago: Thanks.
Dr. Gonzo: [video=youtube;hzqdDoe8FoM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqdDoe8FoM[/video]
Unfortunately for Scoop, he'll have a certain squarejawed GOP Senator from Arizona to contend with.
No. Charlton Heston stills plays Ben-Hur. I decided to give Nielsen the role of Messala after one of the readers asked about Nielsen's acting career TTL. I was also inspired by an alternate history story in which Reagan didn’t go into politics in the ‘60s and instead continued his acting career (he ended up starring in “The Graduate” and “2001: A Space Odyssey” if I remember correctly).
Thanks. I'm glad to see that the waiting time paid off.
H.Appleby: Thanks. My job and the holidays were really kicking my butt as far as posting the update is concerned.
Three of the JSOC choices come from the HOI game while Rickover comes from my research. It turns out that Jackson was his political supporter and they were friends despite Rickover's famous lack of personal diplomacy.
As for Reagan, you'll see him around.
Indeed. Jackson is going to find out over the next few years that having Johnson as his Vice President is a double-edged sword.
Senator John Connally came about as a result of a reader suggestion. As for Senator Bobby Kennedy, he got the job because Ted is ineligible to become a Senator in 1961. Originally I was going to make JFK Ambassador to France and have RFK tag along as his right-hand man. They would both bring their families along with them to Paris just as Joe Kennedy brought his family along with him to London when he was the Ambassador to the UK. However after I made the decision to put Connally in the Senate, this left the Secretary of the Navy post wide open (historically JFK gave Connally that job). Because Jack loved the sea and of course was the skipper of the PT-109, I reconsidered what I was doing and decided to abandon my original idea in favor of putting JFK in charge of the Navy. Once I made that decision, putting Bobby in the Senate fell into place. As for Ted Kennedy, since his brother is occupying his OTL Senate seat, I need to find something else for him to do. I'm thinking about keeping Ted in Massachusetts and have him become TTL's Michael Dukakis as far as the political path is concerned.
c0d5579: Yeah. There's going to be fun in the Navy. As for Nimitz, I think he would publically endorse Rickover as CNO but at the moment I don't see him doing more than that.
I might mention the interservice head-butting you brought up at some point. However, considering I have dealt with the military in a largely abstract fashion, I can't promise to get too much into the military weeds.
Just like WW2, I plan to fight Vietnam quite differently.
Mr. Santiago: Thanks.
Dr. Gonzo: [video=youtube;hzqdDoe8FoM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqdDoe8FoM[/video]
Unfortunately for Scoop, he'll have a certain squarejawed GOP Senator from Arizona to contend with.
Barry can run for President soon, I hope. 6 years is enough, I believe. Kennedy and Obama OTL had 2 years more and less the same time respectively. No comment on how they performed. But I'll happily vote for Goldwater in any universe!
I can tolerate Scoop, I guess. I'll be watching the Bond movies debut.
I can tolerate Scoop, I guess. I'll be watching the Bond movies debut.
I think Reagan is a fun choice, and despite his modern image pretty believable as a moderate Democrat in the TL.
On Scoop versus Goldwater... I don't know a lot about Goldwater bar his awful reputation (the Michael Foot of the American Right) so I'll be keen to see what goes down.
On Scoop versus Goldwater... I don't know a lot about Goldwater bar his awful reputation (the Michael Foot of the American Right) so I'll be keen to see what goes down.
Very intrigued to see what Reagan does in charge of the Labor Department. I can see that Scoop almost realises that Reagan could become a dangerous conservative firebrand, so it's best to keep him involved, keeping him in government might make him less likely to bolt than if he was outside the political process. I do wonder how long that will actually work though, as he might not agree with some of the more Liberal, left-leaning policies of Jackson's administration. In my experience, when a government tries to bring a charismatic figure into the government and tries to control them, they normally end up being brought down by that same figure!
He was a Conservative Democrat during the 50's. By 1964 OTL, he was a fresh convert to the GOP.
Nathan - I'm sort-of getting in the weeds again, but I'd like to know whether the military procurement scandal of OTL '58-61 happened here. Part of the reason that McNamara and the Pentagon didn't always see eye-to-eye, and why McNamara set up the modern FYDP model of military funding, where the Pentagon is supposed to know five years out what it plans on programming money for in that five-year period, is because the military as a whole went off the rails in that period, the most notable case being where an installation built an airfield as a series of parallel half-mile sidewalks, and built a hangar for an "aerial detachment" that didn't exist, and, and, and...
OTL, this particular bombshell hit Congress in January of 1961, just about the same time as the inauguration. They spent the next year and a half in investigation. If you care to read the result, Google "fort lee airfield" and read the relevant Library of Congress PDF. Given that one of the firms that benefited most extensively in Texas was Brown and Root, who were Johnson backers, this could be very fun for the administration.
OTL, this particular bombshell hit Congress in January of 1961, just about the same time as the inauguration. They spent the next year and a half in investigation. If you care to read the result, Google "fort lee airfield" and read the relevant Library of Congress PDF. Given that one of the firms that benefited most extensively in Texas was Brown and Root, who were Johnson backers, this could be very fun for the administration.
SovietAmerika: JFK had been in the Senate since 1953 when he ran in 1960 (on top of his stint in the House). Goldwater in this universe has been in the Senate since 1957, so he could run in 1964 if I wanted him to.
Interesting side note about James Bond. The Bond novels in the early 1960s saw a big boost in sales after President Kennedy said he was a Bond fan. Since Scoop doesn't appear to be a fan of spy novels, I don't think the Bond novels will get the same boost TTL. It might not make a huge difference in the long run but it is interesting to see the extent the butterflies go.
Dr. Gonzo: Believe it or not, there's a cottage industry in this country about exactly how "conservative" Reagan was and whether or not he could be elected in today's Republican Party.
Who is Michael Foot?
Andreios II: Churchill comes to mind on the last sentence. As for how long Reagan will last at the Labor Department, I give him a year or two. He's there more to appease the right, so I think he'll resign if the liberals push him too much out of principal.
SovietAmerika: And he never looked back after that.
c0d5579: My answer is that it is possible. I have no interest in getting into this topic but considering that the government always seems to have a spending scandal of some sort, I think it is possible that some military procurement somewhere would be problematic.
I have a mini-update to post as a prelude to the next update, which will be an HOI overview of January 1961.
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The Supreme Court
President Sparkman made one appointment to the Supreme Court during his second term. On February 25th, 1957, Roosevelt-appointed Associate Justice Stanley F. Reed retired from the Supreme Court after nineteen years due to old age. Sparkman appointed Ernest McFarland to succeed him on the High Bench. This is the composition of the Supreme Court at the time of the Presidential inauguration in January 1961:
Interesting side note about James Bond. The Bond novels in the early 1960s saw a big boost in sales after President Kennedy said he was a Bond fan. Since Scoop doesn't appear to be a fan of spy novels, I don't think the Bond novels will get the same boost TTL. It might not make a huge difference in the long run but it is interesting to see the extent the butterflies go.
Dr. Gonzo: Believe it or not, there's a cottage industry in this country about exactly how "conservative" Reagan was and whether or not he could be elected in today's Republican Party.
Who is Michael Foot?
Andreios II: Churchill comes to mind on the last sentence. As for how long Reagan will last at the Labor Department, I give him a year or two. He's there more to appease the right, so I think he'll resign if the liberals push him too much out of principal.
SovietAmerika: And he never looked back after that.
c0d5579: My answer is that it is possible. I have no interest in getting into this topic but considering that the government always seems to have a spending scandal of some sort, I think it is possible that some military procurement somewhere would be problematic.
I have a mini-update to post as a prelude to the next update, which will be an HOI overview of January 1961.
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The Supreme Court
President Sparkman made one appointment to the Supreme Court during his second term. On February 25th, 1957, Roosevelt-appointed Associate Justice Stanley F. Reed retired from the Supreme Court after nineteen years due to old age. Sparkman appointed Ernest McFarland to succeed him on the High Bench. This is the composition of the Supreme Court at the time of the Presidential inauguration in January 1961:
- Chief Justice Curtis Shake (1941-1978; Willkie appointment)
- Associate Justice Hugo Black (1937-1971; Roosevelt appointment)
- Associate Justice Felix Frankfurter (1939-1962; Roosevelt appointment)
- Associate Justice William O. Douglas (1939-1975; Roosevelt appointment)
- Associate Justice Nathaniel L. Goldstein (1945-1981; Dewey appointment)
- Associate Justice Charles D. Breitel (1946-1986; Dewey appointment)
- Associate Justice Earl Warren (1949-1969; Dewey appointment)
- Associate Justice Herbert Brownell, Jr. (1949-1989; Dewey appointment)
- Associate Justice Ernest McFarland (1957-1968; Sparkman appointment)
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I really want to do an alternate history story in which Truman appoints Strom Thurmond as Chief Justice Supreme Court in order to stave off the Southern Revolt in '48. It'd require a convenient death, but think of how evil I could be,,,
Anyway, excited to see Scoop take his first actions as President.
Anyway, excited to see Scoop take his first actions as President.
H.Appleby: OMG! You really need to write that! That idea is so evil it's priceless! 
Scoop's first action as President: decorating the Oval Office. Seriously. That's how I start the first update of the Jackson years.
Scoop's first action as President: decorating the Oval Office. Seriously. That's how I start the first update of the Jackson years.
H.Appleby: OMG! You really need to write that! That idea is so evil it's priceless!
Scoop's first action as President: decorating the Oval Office. Seriously. That's how I start the first update of the Jackson years.
Yeah, but first I need to keep working on TAE which has been sidelined pending my getting my [things] together,
As for the Jackson years, I figure that bringing LBJ closer to the Administration than IRL will probably be a bad thing if only because the corruption which plagued him will be that much more of a big deal.
As to your appointments, I'm hoping McCone won't make the same kinds of decisions he did OTL, Nitze, Galbraith and Rusk are all good choices and I like the Udall. I'm interested to see where the ship of state sails to over the next four years.
January 1961
H.Appleby: Good point.
That's another good point. Johnson has plenty of skeletons hanging around in his closet (such as his infamous "landslide" Senate primary win in '48). People who don't like him will be sniping at him any chance they get and the fact that Jackson is agreeing to put Johnson folks with questionable ethics (Bobby Baker for instance) in his Administration will only lead to problems down the road. We might very well see people in '64 urge the President to dump Landslide Lyndon from the ticket because his seedy side is dragging the Democrats down.
What should also be noted is the presence of women in the Jackson Administration (a stark contrast to the Boys' Club mentality which guided the Kennedy Administration historically). Scoop really was ahead of his times in his progressive attitude of women holding political jobs and I imagined him putting women in key jobs in his Administration.
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State of American Intelligence
On the Drawing Board
Production Status
The Jackson Administration
H.Appleby: Good point.
That's another good point. Johnson has plenty of skeletons hanging around in his closet (such as his infamous "landslide" Senate primary win in '48). People who don't like him will be sniping at him any chance they get and the fact that Jackson is agreeing to put Johnson folks with questionable ethics (Bobby Baker for instance) in his Administration will only lead to problems down the road. We might very well see people in '64 urge the President to dump Landslide Lyndon from the ticket because his seedy side is dragging the Democrats down.
What should also be noted is the presence of women in the Jackson Administration (a stark contrast to the Boys' Club mentality which guided the Kennedy Administration historically). Scoop really was ahead of his times in his progressive attitude of women holding political jobs and I imagined him putting women in key jobs in his Administration.
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State of American Intelligence
On the Drawing Board
- Hyman Rickover: Nuclear Super Missile Cruiser
BC New Model: Bainbridge-class
CA: Model ‘Los Alamos-class’ is now obsolete - Boeing: Fixed Wing Gunship I
CAS New Model: AC-47 Spooky - Winchester Repeating Arms: 1962 Mountain Division
Mtn New Model: Mountain ‘62
Mtn: Model ‘Mountain ‘56’ is now obsolete
Mtn: Hill Attack +5%
Mtn: Hill Defense +10%
Mtn: Hill Move +5%
Mtn: Mountain Attack +5%
Mtn: Mountain Defense +10%
Mtn: Mountain Move +5% - Norfolk Naval Yard: Guided Missile Frigate
DD New Model: Farragut-class - North American Aviation: Mach 3 Strategic Bomber
Str New Model: North American B-70 Valkyrie
Str: Model ‘Convair B-58 Hustler’ is now obsolete
Production Status
The Jackson Administration
- Head of State: Henry M. Jackson (Social Liberal – Die-hard Reformer)
Consumer goods need -10%
Belligerence needed for declaration of war -15%
Money Production -25% - Head of Government: Lyndon B. Johnson (Social Liberal – Ambitious Union Boss)
Consumer goods needed -15%
Dissent growth rate +5%
Money production -30% - Foreign Minister: Dean Rusk (Social Liberal – Ideological Crusader)
Influence Nation -67 (-100)
Open Negotiation -8 (-30)
Offer Trade Agreement 0 (0) - Armaments Minister: Paul Nitze (Social Liberal – Battlefleet Proponent)
Naval research +10% - Minister of Security: J. Edgar Hoover (Social Liberal – Crime Fighter)
Consumer goods need -10% - Head of Intelligence: John A. McCone (Social Liberal – Technical Specialist)
Research +5%
Steal Blueprints +5% Chance
Nuclear Sabotage +5% Chance
Sabotage Techteam +5% Chance - Chief of Staff: Lyman L. Lemnitzer (Social Liberal – School of Mass Combat)
Manpower growth +25%
Infantry construction bonus -5% - Chief of the Army: Maxwell D. Taylor (Market Liberal – Elastic Defence Doctrine)
Self-propelled Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
Self-propelled Rocket Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
Motorised construction bonus -5%
Mechanised construction bonus -5%
Self-propelled Artillery brigade defensive combat modifier +5%
Self-propelled Rocket Artillery brigade defensive combat modifier +5%
Motorised defensive combat modifier +5%
Mechanised defensive combat modifier +5% - Chief of the Navy: Hyman Rickover (Social Conservative – Indirect Approach Doctrine)
Destroyer construction bonus +5%
Transport construction bonus +5%
Submarine offensive combat modifier +10%
Battlecruiser offensive combat modifier +10% - Chief of the Air Force: Curtis Lemay (Social Conservative – Carpet Bombing Doctrine)
Strategic Bomber offensive combat modifier +10%
Strategic Bomber defensive combat modifier +5%
Escort Fighter offensive combat modifier +5%
Escort Fighter defensive combat modifier +10%
Strategic Bomber construction bonus -10%
Escort Fighter construction bonus -10%
- In England, The Beatles (down to four members following the departure of bassist Stuart Sutcliffe) play their first gig at The Cavern Club in Liverpool. It is here that they are discovered by their manager Brian Epstein.
- The Twenty-Third Amendment to the United States Constitution is ratified, granting residents of Washington, D.C. the right to vote starting in 1964.
- The 33rd Academy Awards is held at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium in Santa Monica, California and is hosted by actor Bob Hope. “The Apartment”, a comedy-drama produced and directed by Billy Wilder, wins seven awards:
Best Picture
Best Director
Best Actor (Jack Lemmon)
Best Original Screenplay (Wilder and I. A. L. Diamond)
Best Art Direction, Black and White (Art Direction: Alexander Trauner; Set Decoration: Edward G. Boyle)
Best Cinematography, Black and White (Joseph LaShelle)
Best Film Editing (Daniel Mandell)
Rounding out the top winners, Elizabeth Taylor wins Best Actress for her role in “Butterfield 8”, Peter Falk wins Best Supporting Actor for his role in “Murder, Inc.”, and Shirley Knight wins Best Supporting Actress for her role in “The Dark at the Top of the Stairs” - The United Kingdom holds a general election in which the ruling Conservative Party, led by Rab Butler, increase their majority in the House of Commons under the slogan “Life is better with the Conservatives. Don’t let Labour ruin it.” This election is best known for sending Conservative candidate Margaret Thatcher to Parliament.
- New York Yankees right fielder Roger Maris hits sixty-one home runs during the 1961 Major League Baseball season, setting a record that will last until 1998.
- In California, a newly-formed rock band called The Beach Boys (consisting of brothers Brian, Dennis, and Carl Wilson, their cousin Mike Love, and their friend Al Jardine) release their first single “Surfin’”.
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Awesome! Beatles, Beach Boys and Butler, what more could a man ask for?
Also the AC-47 "Spooky" and the Nuclear Super Missile Cruiser are incredibly silly names.
Also the AC-47 "Spooky" and the Nuclear Super Missile Cruiser are incredibly silly names.
Sir Humphrey,
If Spooky looks like a silly name to you, just wait for "Puff the Magic Dragon". Never a song had such a dreadful consecuences.
About the chapter.
From a game perspective, I don't understand why building more factories as you have enough, from my point of view. Jackson and Johnson... -55% money prod all in all... a real pain in the arse.
Sutcliffe didn't die (yet, at least). Nice. Reb Butler PM? Oh dear.
If Spooky looks like a silly name to you, just wait for "Puff the Magic Dragon". Never a song had such a dreadful consecuences.
About the chapter.
From a game perspective, I don't understand why building more factories as you have enough, from my point of view. Jackson and Johnson... -55% money prod all in all... a real pain in the arse.
Sutcliffe didn't die (yet, at least). Nice. Reb Butler PM? Oh dear.
H.Appleby: I love '60s music. "Runaway", "Hit the Road Jack", "Runaround Sue", and "Please Mr. Postman" are four of the songs that will be popular during Jackson’s first year in office.
Apparently not silly enough for this mod.
Kurt_Steiner: I'm building factories for two reasons: to create jobs storywise and to ease my TC deficit gamewise. It probably doesn't matter this late in the game but it gives me a way to soak up IC until Jackson passes his National Defense Act of 1961, allowing me to go on a massive building spree.
Goldwater is probably cursing those damn social liberals for lowering money production like that.
We'll get back to Butler shortly when I do a mini-Europe update.
SovietAmerika: 1964...I honestly have no idea which Republican I will nominate to challenge Jackson's re-election bid. Too many potential candidates.
Apparently not silly enough for this mod.
Kurt_Steiner: I'm building factories for two reasons: to create jobs storywise and to ease my TC deficit gamewise. It probably doesn't matter this late in the game but it gives me a way to soak up IC until Jackson passes his National Defense Act of 1961, allowing me to go on a massive building spree.
Goldwater is probably cursing those damn social liberals for lowering money production like that.
We'll get back to Butler shortly when I do a mini-Europe update.
SovietAmerika: 1964...I honestly have no idea which Republican I will nominate to challenge Jackson's re-election bid. Too many potential candidates.
As long as the GOP is lead to a bright Libertarian future. I'm always here to help with ideas.
I'm wondering when Fidel's gonna try something, also, did we take out Arbez or Mossadeq TTL?