The Presidents: The Vietnam War Edition

[Nathan Madien]

c0d5579: You win some, you lose some.

In my research of Dewey, I learned that he hated insubordination. His motto was: Who do you work for? So with the State Department not wanting to go along with recognizing Israel, I can imagine him rolling heads.

Yes, it is a more dignified dismissal. With Marshall being this great military hero (which is part of the reason why he becomes Secretary of State in this timeline), Dewey doesn't have the heart to outright fire him. Lesser folks are another matter.

nhinhonhinho: Ah, welcome. Good luck on writing your own Vietnam AAR.

PhilleP: Considering Europe owes its' freedom to the United States of America, it's the least they can do.

volksmarschall: I believe so.

hoi2geek: If I remember to...

soulking: Actually, it was.



The black circles are what I liberated as the US (roughly). When I was playing the game, the only Ally that fought alongside me in Europe was France. Everyone else went to Persia!

nhinhonhinho: Yup.

Ciryandor: We will see what happens in Southeast Asia as far as alliances are concerned.

[hoi2geek]

So just try to remember my proposal, and everything will be fine for the US, right?

[Nathan Madien]

hoi2geek: I will try to remember your proposal.

As for everything being fine for the US, only time will tell.

[Nathan Madien]

I hope this update makes sense. My entire vision of an alternate approach to the Vietnam War rests on this.
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Vietnam Intervention
In June 1950:
-Boeing unveiled America’s first Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM)
-Admiral Arleigh Burke developed Early Cold War Blue Water Tactics for the United States Navy
-The Commando V-100 Modern Armored Car entered service
-The Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii erupted
-A French expedition became the first to reach the summit of Annapurna I (26,545 feet) in the Himalayas
-In Turkey, the Arabic Adhan (the Islamic call to prayer) was legalized
-In South Africa, the Communist Party was formally banned
-In the FIFA World Cup, the United States defeated the United Kingdom 1-0
-Rowan Williams, the future Archbishop of Canterbury, was born in Swansea, Wales
-Kazys Grinius, the third President of Lithuania (1926), died in Chicago, Illinois at the age of eighty-three
On the 25th of that month, a very important guest arrived at Dapplemere (the President’s large farm in Pawling, New York).

The person in question was Jean de Lattre de Tassigny. A French military hero, Tassigny was the General in charge of his nation’s forces in Vietnam. Visiting Dewey at his beloved estate, Tassigny’s mission was to make an eloquent appeal on behalf of his government for American aid. Portraying Vietnam as a war against Communism, Tassigny warned that without American support, Vietnam would fall to Minh. If that happened, it would trigger a domino effect of Asian countries toppling one-by-one: Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, the Malaysian Peninsula, Indonesia, and Nationalist China would all go to Hell in a hand basket. If they all went, there would be nothing to stop the remainder of Asia from bending to this new “east wind”.
It was a terrifying scenario that Tassigny painted…and it was one Dewey took quite seriously. He told Tassigny that he would accept the appeal, having been convinced that Vietnam was a black-and-white case of Communist aggression. The General returned to Paris with his mission accomplished and the French waited for the promised American help to arrive. After gaining bipartisan approval from Congress, the Dewey Administration opened a supply line to Southeast Asia as summer faded into fall. French soldiers were soon being armed with American weapons and U.S. military observers arrived to watch them fight the Viet Minh. Although America wasn’t yet putting her own soldiers on the ground, the presence of napalm (a gel mixed with gasoline for the purpose of starting fires to flush out the enemy) sent a loud message to Minh and Giap: the United States was officially involved in Vietnam.

When 1951 began, a disturbing fact emerged that had the French and American governments equally scratching their heads. Reports were coming in from across Vietnam that the Viet Minh were increasingly attacking with Soviet weapons and supplies in their hands. Looking at the geography of Asia, it didn’t make any sense. Vietnam was cut off from the Soviet Union and Red China by Nationalist China. How were the arms getting through? The Nationalist Chinese Ambassador to the United States reassured the White House that his government was doing everything in its’ power to make sure that Communist aid wasn’t somehow flowing into North Vietnam through his country. So far, no one in the Dewey Administration had a reason to doubt the Ambassador’s sincerity. Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr., the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (established in 1949), was ordered to personally investigate the baffling matter.

That spring, keeping the arms mystery in the back of his mind, Dewey traveled to Asia – the first sitting President to do so – for a diplomatic (as well as cultural) tour. He made stops in the Philippines, Japan, Korea, Nationalist China, Tibet, and India. While in Nationalist China, the President and his wife Frances dined with Kai-shek and his wife May-ling at the Presidential Palace in Nanjing (the nation’s capital). During their after-dinner conversation, the President of the United States casually mentioned to the President of Nationalist China that Communist aid was somehow finding its’ way to the Viet Minh. What happened next struck the American leader as odd:
“Given that the Vietnamese were practically fighting on his doorstep, I assumed the Generalissimo would be concerned about this. Instead, he reacted as though the problem was taking place on the other side of the world. The Generalissimo didn’t seem to be taking the fighting in Vietnam very seriously. Instead, he waved it off as someone else’s problem.”
For the rest of the tour, Dewey couldn’t understand why Kai-shek acted so detached on the subject of Vietnam. Why didn’t he care that people were fighting and dying right on his Southern border?

The answer to that question awaited Dewey upon his return to the United States. Stepping off the plane at the airport in Washington, D.C., the President was greeted by his CIA Director. After shaking hands, Lodge escorted his boss to the car that would take them straight to the White House. Once settled in, the Director wasted no time in delivering intelligence that left Dewey speechless: Kai-shek had gone behind America’s back and cut a deal with the Communists. According to Lodge, it all started last year. When the Americans decided to arm the French, the Soviets and the Red Chinese reacted by secretly recognizing Minh’s government as being the “true” Vietnamese government. The big obstacle they then faced was how to extend outside support to a political ally isolated by neutral nations.

Meanwhile, ever since he returned to Nationalist China from exile, Kai-shek had been paranoid about his hold on power. One of the first things he did was to heavily militarize portions of his border with Communist China, Mongolia, and the Soviet Union. He was afraid of a sudden Communist invasion of his country and wanted to be prepared for war at a moment’s notice. With so many Nationalist forces sitting on the border, not surprisingly the Communist countries also lined their borders with military units. They were likewise afraid of a preemptive strike by the other side. As a result, this border became perhaps the tensest in the world.

With the Communists wanting to aid the Viet Minh and the Nationalists on active border alert 24/7, the two sides came to the conclusion that compromise was the answer. Although it wasn't clear to the CIA yet which side had made the first move, Moscow and Nanjing entered into secret negotiations in the fall of 1950. Even while assuring the Americans that he would never do anything behind their back, Kai-shek was doing exactly that. The deal that emerged was one that was mutually beneficial; according to the deal, the Soviet Union and Red China were granted military access in the Yunnan region in return for signing non-aggression pacts with Nationalist China. With the stroke of a pen, Kai-shek could now sleep easier at night not having to worry about any sudden invasions and the Communists could now establish supply lines through Yunnan that could endlessly feed Minh’s forces.

Of course, the secret deal didn’t remain secret once the CIA knew about it. Upon returning to the White House, Dewey ordered the information to be declassified and made public as soon as possible so “everyone can learn about the treachery of our so-called Chinese 'friends'.”
The American people, from the leadership of Congress down to the Average Joe, were stunned by the revelation that Nationalist China – a nation that had enjoyed great sympathy and support on the home front – was aiding the Communists in their effort to spread their ideology abroad. Perhaps no was more surprised than that country’s Ambassador to the United States. According to the Ambassador, Nanjing had fed him nothing but misinformation and he knew nothing about the deal until the President summoned him to the Oval Office and angrily demanded an explanation. Consequently, diplomatic relations between the United States and Nationalist China took a heavy hit; furthermore, the Americans never again trusted Kai-shek…not that he really cared. For him, all that mattered was protecting his own power – even if it meant making an obviously self-serving move that destroyed an historic friendship and made him a widely-despised figure.

Decisions made in Washington, D.C., Nanjing, and Moscow transformed Vietnam from a colonial rebellion to a Cold War battlefront. The Soviet Union and the United States openly armed the Viet Minh and the French (respectively), testing the hardware and the resolve of the two superpowers in the jungles and rice fields of Southeast Asia. Thanks to almost unlimited Communist military supplies, Giap reorganized his local irregular forces into five fully-conventional infantry divisions and intensified the war effort. Starting in July 1951, he vigorously went after isolated French bases in Northern Vietnam. The garrison at Lai Khe fell first without much difficulty; encouraged by the victory, Giap next went after Cao Bang on October 25th. Unlike Lai Khe, Cao Bang was heavily defended by 4,000 troops and the Viet Minh were repulsed in their attack. Unfazed, Giap put Cao Bang under a long siege that lasted until March 1952. At the time the garrison surrendered, America’s attention was focused stateside on New Hampshire. People in the Granite State were preparing to cast their votes in the first-in-the-nation Presidential primary. Giap and his military campaign had taken a backseat to a political campaign that would decide who Dewey’s successor would be. Vietnam wouldn’t be much of a factor in the upcoming Presidential election, but the winner of that contest would have to deal with the war whose American presence had been Dewey’s doing.

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Quite an eventful update. The Americans get involved in Vietnam, the Communists get involved in Vietnam, Kai-shek proves once again that America really needs to put more thought into who they put in power, and we have an Presidential election coming up. But before we dive into the 1952 campaign, let's hang out for a bit with that suntanned Conservative whom people thought was "too extreme" in 1964: Mr. Barry Goldwater.

[CatKnight]

Your update made sense. It was even plausible, and certainly made sense from Kai-Shek's point of view.

Even ignoring the question you posed of a heavily armed front several thousand miles long, if the French (with US weapons) won decisively then it could easily provoke the Soviets into risking the throw. Kai-Shek would not want China to turn into the world's largest battleground.

[El Pip]

Sounds plausible enough, though as CatKnight mentioned that's a very long border to be heavily armed.

As Kai-Shek isn't exactly renowned for his long term thinking, cutting a dirty deal to secure an immediate threat (even if it's a long term bad move) sound all too much like him.

[talt]

I predict after the Soviet Union collapses (probably faster than in OTL), that there will be a Cold War between the USA and a superpower Nationalist China. The situation will hinge, on whether the Chinese co-operate with the Americans. If they do co-operate, then eventually the Communists will be squeezed to death. If they don't or worse, supply the Vietnamese with arms, then it could be similar to OTL.

[Kurt_Steiner]

It seems taht this time colonel Charton had not a hell of a time through the Route Coloniale 4... He did not have to move too much to find it.

[Asalto]

That's most interesting plot! With Chiang Kai-shek allowing Communist supply lines to pass territory of Nationalist China, everything makes sense now. I wonder what are personal views of Chiang about that. His main objective is probably to stay in power, but I guess he also doesen't like Americans too much. I think he might be annoyed to have Europeans and Americans messing in Asia. He probably wants both Westerners and Communists gone from Asia, to make Nationalist China strong Asian power, instead of being American or Soviet puppet.

[Davout]

Excellant handling of both the advisor stage of the conflict and the handling of the Viet Minh supply question.

Since there are no Korean distractions, possibly McArthur might consider a tilt at the presidency for the Democrats because Adlai would probably cut the war short if he got in, in case someone got hurt.

[Pablolaguerra]

United States... wins the world cup? LIES! The most nonsensical timeline I've ever seen in my life D:<<<, otherwise great history/update

[c0d5579]

I second the idea that MacArthur needs to be elected, even if it deviates from the epilogue to "Hoover to Dewey." Two words: American Caesar.

[Nathan Madien]

CatKnight: I was worried going into this that my rationale for how the Communists were able to support the Viet Minh wouldn't make sense. This is probably the most important update of the entire story, because it sets up how the two superpower got involved in Vietnam. If the update didn't make sense, then this AAR would fall flat I think.

As for the heavily armed front, since it is so long, I think the likely way to secure it is to place forces here and there. If China turned into the world's largest battleground, Kai-shek would be on his own. I have most of my army divisions tied up in the occupation of Japan and beefing up Europe in case of some freak Cold War Heats Up event.

El Pip: Good point about the border. I will make a correction.

Given how corrupt Kai-Shek was, cutting a dirty deal seemed like something he could do.

talt: Hmm...interesting prediction.

Kurt_Steiner:

Asalto: You're correct: Kai-shek's main objective is to stay in power. What you said about Kai-shek wanting to make his country strong and independent, not tied down to another country, makes sense. I hadn't thought of it to that extent.

Davout: Thank you.

Without Korea, MacArthur is sitting happily as the head of the American occupation of Japan (I even have him stationed in Tokyo). MacArthur in 1956? I think that might be possible. With his impressive reputation not stained by the Truman firing, and the G.O.P. Presidential nomination up for grabs in '56, he could run against Stevenson. As for Stevenson cutting the war short, we will get something to that effect when we return to Vietnam in the near future.

Pablolaguerra: The United States didn't win the World Cup (Uruguay got that honor: 2-1 over Brazil). The US simply defeated the UK 1-0, only to then get knocked out 5-2 by Chile.

c0d5579: MacArthur could be elected President in 1956, making Stevenson a one-termer and setting MacArthur up to face JFK in 1960.

As for the epilogue to "Hoover to Dewey", it was more of a way to tie-up that story rather than to build a blueprint for this AAR. In fact, the epilogue is kinda like the Star Wars Christmas Special: it exists, but at the same time it doesn't "exist".
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By the way, the update I am working on right now highlights my current Cold War Tech Mod game circa February 1951. Since it is heavy on screenshots, I decided to feature two of those screenshots in this post in order to lighten the load.



I have an level 8 Rocket Test Site in Las Cruces, New Mexico. My primary focus is to expand the Site to level 10. After all, with the United States leading the way in the field of rocketry, the Rocket Test Site should be as large as possible. Oh, look! Roswell! A massive Rocket Test Site near the infamous UFO location. Is there a connection?



Asheville, North Carolina: home of America's level 9 Nuclear Reactor. Man, she is pumping out so many atomic bombs. Of course, I will probably never use them.

[c0d5579]

Oak Ridge is Level 9? That's an ambitious construction project; sounds like the NRC never really got off the ground and the Manhattan Engineer District is an exciting place to work.

[hoi2geek]

Always remember my proposal I told you about, okay?

[c0d5579]

You know, I just thought about this... MacArthur's island-hopping campaign was an early model of asymmetric warfare; he's quite likely to be able to appreciate Giap's willingness to bypass French strongholds and counter effectively, where the leadership that the US sent to Vietnam in our timeline were all blooded in Europe, where "conventional" warfare was much more the norm. MacArthur had at least experience (perhaps not direct, but with the administrative problems) of troops scattered across a couple thousands quare miles with no carved-out supply network. He might just be the man for Vietnam.

[J.J.Jameson]

Hi, first post. I agree with that. Macarthur would be perfect as a commander in Vietnam for the reasons described. I don't care if he's president, but I want to see him use helicopters to "outpost hop"! Also, what of the other old generals? They can't all be retired, can they?

[Viden]

This is what I call "Backstabbing".

[Nathan Madien]

c0d5579: What's the NRC?

As we will see, America's leadership in rocketry is such that only a massive Rocket Test Site will suffice.

hoi2geek: I will try.

c0d5579: That's a very good point.

As for MacArthur being the man for Vietnam, we will see.

J.J.Jameson: Hi, welcome!

As for the other generals, Patton is dead, Marshall is retired, Bradley is the overall commander of American forces in Europe, and Eisenhower is Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and is being pressured to run for President in '52.

Viden: Please explain.

[Viden]

Viden: Please explain.

Chiang betrayed his friends with the commies.