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Thread: Two cultures per character, please!

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    Crusader Kaleidoscope's Avatar
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    Two cultures per character, please!

    A simple requst that in CK2 all characters have two cultures, rather than just the one as in CK1. This would allow subtle cultural shifts to occur over time. For example in 1066 the nobles in England could start out as Franco-Norman, but over the generations of living in England can become Anglo-Norman.
    This would also work well for nobles ruling over crusader states. Southern French conquerors may start out as Franco-Occitan, but further generations might form a Franco-Arab culture as they gradually adopt local customs.
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    Banned LouisXI's Avatar
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    This is one of the best ideas I've seen. Kudos .

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    Tsar of Australiarr HMAS-Nameless's Avatar
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    handled well this could be the greatest feature yet!
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    Field Marshal Palisadoes's Avatar
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    This seems to be along the lines of your ruling dynasty assimilating to the majority culture of their realm. As such, I think it could be good for modelling various aspects within the game, with a multitude of effects (likelihood of revolts, for example, perhaps?).

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    DONT TREAD ON ME Moderator TheLoneGunman's Avatar
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    How would you determine what cultures a child inherits from their parents if each parent has 2 cultures and the child can only have 2?

    I think multiple cultures would be in order with an accompanying pie chart...
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    Probably something to do with the actual cultures of the parents and the culture of the province he was born in.

    I'd imagine it would be something like that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoneGunman View Post
    How would you determine what cultures a child inherits from their parents if each parent has 2 cultures and the child can only have 2?

    I think multiple cultures would be in order with an accompanying pie chart...
    the 2 parrents 2 main cultures would transfer to the kid?
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    Crusader Kaleidoscope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoneGunman View Post
    How would you determine what cultures a child inherits from their parents if each parent has 2 cultures and the child can only have 2?
    You could ask the same question of CK, where two parents can have different cultures, but the child can only have one. In CK the child is far more likely to inherit culture from the father than the mother, and is (I think) even less likely to get a culture from the province he rules. It could work the same way in CK2, but with two cultures present any shift in culture would be much less sudden than in CK1, where a child born to european parents can still inherit a wholly foreign culture.
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    Should there be events/decisions that shift culture??

    Like if my king is frankish and his wife danish, thus the child becomes frankish-danish in culture (since his father's culture most likely take precedence), should this ever be able to change??

    Could be cool if the boy at some point through events/decisions would change to danish-frankish, or maybe even to the arab culture of the province he rules.
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    Tsar of Australiarr HMAS-Nameless's Avatar
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    What about having a national culture and a hereditary culture. This is the most realistic way to portray shifts in cultures (i.e. from Franco-Normans to Anglo-Normans). The country culture tag takes it from the highest title or the highest title of the liege and the hereditary culture comes either from the mother or father (like ck2)

    For Example:

    the character William de Normandie before the invasion of England has the culture Franco-Norman. He invades England then has a new son. Lets say his name is Robert.
    Robert then has the culture Anglo-Norman having been born in the England having the country culture tag Anglo because his liege (being his father) is the King of England while he gets the hereditary culture of Norman from his father. Eventually after years an event or decision could unify the Anglo and Normans and make characters from there on have the culture of English. Say after so many progressive characters of the same culture (being Anglo-Norman in this example) a decision could become available uniting the English. If a country culture tag matches the same hereditary tag it cancels the country culture tag out of the characters culture. That is the most simple, effective and realistic way to do this.
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    Then you can also differentiate between the Sicilu-Normans, and the Anglo-Normans.
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    That is all fine and dandy for nobles invading foreign lands and all that, but what about the rest? Dano-Danish, Germano-German, and Polish-Polish doesnt sound all that hot to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boblof View Post
    That is all fine and dandy for nobles invading foreign lands and all that, but what about the rest? Dano-Danish, Germano-German, and Polish-Polish doesnt sound all that hot to me.
    You're seriously suggesting that in the middle ages all of Germany was a monolithic "German" culture? Sure there was a "Germanic" culture, but it had distinct subcultures. There would be German-Flemish, or German-Dutch maybe. I don't believe for a second that Denmark and Poland have no regional subcultures, or cannot themselves be part of a larger macro-culture.
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    Banned LouisXI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleidoscope View Post
    You're seriously suggesting that in the middle ages all of Germany was a monolithic "German" culture? Sure there was a "Germanic" culture, but it had distinct subcultures. There would be German-Flemish, or German-Dutch maybe. I don't believe for a second that Denmark and Poland have no regional subcultures, or cannot themselves be part of a larger macro-culture.
    Indeed. There's Saxons and Bavarians for starters. I'm not sure about Denmark or Poland, but I know this system would still work in Germany.

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    At first I did not like this idea, but the more I think and read about it, it is a great idea!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleidoscope View Post
    You're seriously suggesting that in the middle ages all of Germany was a monolithic "German" culture? Sure there was a "Germanic" culture, but it had distinct subcultures.
    I cannot see into the future, I don't know what cultures paradox will put in, german was one culture in CK1 that is why I used that as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleidoscope View Post
    There would be German-Flemish, or German-Dutch maybe. I don't believe for a second that Denmark and Poland have no regional subcultures, or cannot themselves be part of a larger macro-culture.
    Even if you surely could have Dano-Jutish or something Danish is itself an ethnonym for a specific area, you would still have Dano-Danish, and Swedish-Swedish etc. Unless you make Scandinavian the first ethnonym in the name or something like that, then you would have Scando-Swedish and Scando-Danish.

    I still think this is alot of mucking around with made up ethnonyms just to allow for something that was abstracted pretty well in the original CK and has no discernable effect on gameplay. It might increase immersion when playing Normans, but I would rather not play as a family of Scando-Geats or Russo-Novgorodians.
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  17. #17
    It could have some interesting implications. The childs culture shouldn't be based upon birth though but where and by who he was raised. If he is sent away to a foreign court that is probably where he'd acquire a great deal of his cultural background.

    If I'm an English duke and he is raised by his French mother in my French counties when I come for a visit I think I'll find my boy speaks French.

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    I don't know, one culture seems enough for me. Not liking the idea, I guess.

  19. #19
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    I like this idea. Almost all countries have several distinct cultures, so as long as Paradox properly implemented this, I don't think we'd be seeing too many "Dano-Danish" combinations, for example. More like "Jutish-Scanian."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleidoscope View Post
    You're seriously suggesting that in the middle ages all of Germany was a monolithic "German" culture? Sure there was a "Germanic" culture, but it had distinct subcultures. There would be German-Flemish, or German-Dutch maybe. I don't believe for a second that Denmark and Poland have no regional subcultures, or cannot themselves be part of a larger macro-culture.
    But then you're talking about different subcultures within a particular group, such as in EU3 there's an "Iberian" culture group that includes Castilian, Galician, Portuguese, etc. That's a completely different issue than having every character in the game have 2 cultures.

    Not really liking this idea.
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