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Westeros Mod - War of the Usurper

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Although I disagree with your views on the state of the series, you do have valid points.

Have you ever thought of a mod based of the Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan?
 
I know you gave an answer already but I STILL don't see why you couldn't do an upgrade, basically, of the first mod with new engine/emperors/etc. It's a shame to have been so close to something really special & abandon it because later material was disappointing. Do just like the first but updated for CK2 is what I mean. I just loved it so much. Thanks for what you did give us, anyway. Silmarillion is WAAAAY too in-depth for a treatment like this, I fear. He made reams & reams of back-story if you read it all. Too fully-fleshed out IMHO. & then what time period would you choose? The original, doomed war of the Eldar against Morgoth? Later struggles in Beleriand? I just think it's too complex. How would the Eldar be implemented, with their indirect type of magic that doesn't lend itself well to battle-focused play? They didn't throw fireballs, etc. like in D&D or something. Any of the divisions of elves wouldn't fit easily into a game like this I think.
 
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Adama4Prez said:
I know you gave an answer already but I STILL don't see why you couldn't do an upgrade, basically, of the first mod with new engine/emperors/etc. It's a shame to have been so close to something really special & abandon it because later material was disappointing. Do just like the first but updated for CK2 is what I mean.QUOTE]

I could (I am sure others will anyway) but the huge drop in quality and pacing of Martin’s last two books have really left a sour taste in my mouth. In my opinion his success has been his undoing, his name is so big now that he over-rules editors. He seems more interested in basking in adulation at book signings, award ceremonies, flogging crappy merchandising and HBO events than writing the novels (he described the last two as bitches to write). He has rabid fans who will lap up any dross he turns out and praise him for it, not only has he seemed to have surrounded himself with “yes men”, but he dismisses any criticism. On his blog (which only allows gushing praise) he comments:

"I know lots of writers, and not one of them takes Amazon reviews seriously. Or any anonymous reviews, actually. Internet anonymity encourages trolling, sock puppetry, and other forms of abuse, and the Amazon reviews demonstrate that beyond a doubt."

What is ironic is that the so called “sock puppets” are overwhelmingly his 5 star 1 sentence review cronies. One of the moderators at the Westeros.org site who is also writing the ASOFI Sourcebook posted a day of release 5 star review. Other moderators are also personally thanked in DANCE dedication. There are some pretty obvious clashes of interests going on. Criticism is quickly shut down. Ironically it is also causing the decline, these rabid fans who praise and defend the last two books should not be surprised when the next book has the same appalling pacing, cliff-hangers and clunky prose.

There is always the Westeros RTS coming out soon Genesis something... that looks like it will accurately portray the level of quality this series is now at :)
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Cathar knight said:
That's exactly what I wanted to read on these forums since many, many moons! :cool:
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The death of Feanor would be an excellent time/setting for a mod. His Seven sons founded their own Kingdoms. Feanor’s half brother Fingolfin was now High King of the Noldor in Beleiand (Feanor’s sons with claims and bound by their terrible oath). It’s a perfect political situation to mod: with the kinslaying and mistrust between Noldor/Noldor, Sindar; and dwarves; not to mention the Houses of Men migrating from the East who are given lands and made vassals of the elves, some of whom betray the elves and turn to Morgoth.

Its pretty much a free for all well suited to the double crossing and machinations of CK (far more than Middle Earth in the Third Age). A common criticism of Tolkien (usually leveled by those who don’t know much at all about Tolkien) is that he wrote only extremes of good and evil and couldn’t write gritty, realistic “morally grey” characters, these fools obviously never read about Eol, Hurin, Turin, Feanor or indeed Sauron who began as a Maiar fair to look upon but was corrupted by Morgoth.

RE ADAMA4Perz: Of course there are some elements which would difficult to implement but what you identify as problems are if anything strengths:
-Too much backstory and detail…. How is that a bad thing when making a mod? Better that then shallow, trite Essos
-Elves don’t have magic or cast fireballs…. Again that’s good, nothing described in the Elven battles is beyond the scope of standard CK battle mechanics.
The Girdle of Melian could be tricky (prov based event to keep out non Sindar); Simarils could be included as a trait; The main problem I see is that Elven immortality doesn’t lend itself too well to a dynastic based game. This could be overcome with events like Wearying of Middle Earth and departing for the West. Despite being immortal, I think Galadriel was the only Noldor born in Arman to have survived into the Third Age, most came to grisly ends.

I would rather make a mod set in this indepth backstory then Martin's shallow Essos, and even Westeros with absurd risings from the grave and heris popping up suddenly.
 
Calanctus said:
Oh my, someone has a chip on their shoulder.
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Well yes I have strong views on the subject. I had put the effort into making a mod and no longer feel the setting is worth that effort, I thought I would explain why.

What do you hope to achieve by your 1 sentence put-down and dismissal of my views? Do you actually disagree with anything I have said? Or would you rather leave it at a snide personal remark?
 
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OK I will try and be more productive:

The first three books in the trilogy are awesome.

I recommend whoever tries to mod this setting in CK 2 set the mod at/before/during the War of the Usurper and exclude Essos.

If you try to set a dynasty based, feudal sim computer game in a period where specific (and magical) character events take place in narrative prose things get very muddy and problematic. For example, for a mod set at the end of DANCE, how would the situation Tyrion, Danny, Bran and Jon face themselves in be implemented into the game??? Even if this could be implemented would the game then play out in a plausible (or indeed in line events in the following as yet unwritten books).

In the two scenarios I have released I felt the War of the Usurper one was far more successful. I haven’t even released the the 5 Kings one, because in game events never played out in a way similar to book events or in a very logical fashion. Sheikdom of Essex syndrome in Westeros.

Altough in my mod Dany ends up sitting in the East and doing nothing pretty much every game I didnt consider this a successful "feature" even before I read Dance .
 
I'm not even sure why Essos would be in this sort of mod to begin with. Westeros and Essos seem like... well, two different continents. Go figure. Yes, there's some communication between them, but by large, they don't affect the other on any grand scale - sellswords and exile of a few nobles excluded. Anyways, as you said, much better to just exclude Essos, having it being mentioned only in the occasional event (sending a character into exile, or hiring sellsword companies, for example). Maybe have Braavos at the most, if only to have a place to store the characters in exile. Braavos because a few Sealords of Braavos married Targaryen princesses, and it's one of the closer Free Cities.

As for their influence with characters in the novels, though, well... as Grell also posted, it's likely best to not have one set during the last two novels. Far too much focus upon individuals abroad rather than the Houses of Westeros. One can avoid the awkward book events (UnCat, UnGregor, etc.) in that manner. And the Targaryen heirs? Well, they can be placed as random courtiers in Braavos, presuming one can have courtiers that aren't a part of any government. Regardless, sad and disappointed to hear that you won't be working on a Westeros mod for CK2. You did a rather decent job with this mod here. Best of luck with your future projects.

Oh, and I have no great hopes about the RTS game being made. Feels like it'll be Age of Empires with a Westeros skin over it. Not to mention the randomness of having Robert Baratheon and Aegon the Conqueror in the same game...
 
Vesimir said:
One thing.

The map. Can't someone please make a CKlike one with proper borders, etc.? The way it is now, it's so cluttered!
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Unfortuantely I was not able to make a map with a larger height than the standard CK map. Since the continent of Westeros has been designed so narrowly I couldnt get around the cluttered feel. I wonder if this will also be an issue in CK 2 for whoever tackles it :) I dont see the Army Icons, shields etc from Dorne to the Frozen North being able to fit in the current game screenshots stretching from Scotland to Morocco.
 
Grell74 said:
OK I will try and be more productive:

The first three books in the trilogy are awesome.

I recommend whoever tries to mod this setting in CK 2 set the mod at/before/during the War of the Usurper and exclude Essos.

If you try to set a dynasty based, feudal sim computer game in a period where specific (and magical) character events take place in narrative prose things get very muddy and problematic. For example, for a mod set at the end of DANCE, how would the situation Tyrion, Danny, Bran and Jon face themselves in be implemented into the game??? Even if this could be implemented would the game then play out in a plausible (or indeed in line events in the following as yet unwritten books).

In the two scenarios I have released I felt the War of the Usurper one was far more successful. I haven’t even released the the 5 Kings one, because in game events never played out in a way similar to book events or in a very logical fashion. Sheikdom of Essex syndrome in Westeros.

Altough in my mod Dany ends up sitting in the East and doing nothing pretty much every game I didnt consider this a successful "feature" even before I read Dance .
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I agree, that the first three books were brilliant, but I like the other (less brilliant) books too (although have to wait 6 years, could also have produced a lot of expectations). I even share your concern about the increased fantastic elements. OTOH balancing out Daenerys doesn't have to be bad, however one could argue that he hasn't found the right balance yet. Obviously not all plots worked, but I personally aren't disappointed in the general plot (the position of the various parties in the conflict at the end of the last two books); and the ending of Dance and Feast do create some interesting opportunities (certainly at a general level,
some parties (like Dorne and the Vale) could become more active).
 
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Grell74 said:
The plot has moved to a sluggish pace, such a thing could be acceptable if the prose was decent. Unfortunately its woeful, Martin’s excessive repetition of phrases and words and would be jarring to a goldfish. I also cant stand the increasing use of inconsistent faux-medieval invented/adapted words (serjeant, neeps, needs must, nuncle, etc). The characterisation is awful too: Dany went from Mother of Dragons and city conquerer to simpering fool; it also was quite an accomplishment for a witer to make such an awesome character as Tyrion boring; Jon… etc. I think Martin was successful in creating a grim, believable western medieval ethos in the first three books, but now its just sadistic and lame. Increasing use of magic to conceal weak plot, not to mention comic book cliff-hangers (unforgivable when there is a 6 year wait) and soap-opera like returns from the dead (unGregor, UnCat, Jon-ofcourse, etc).
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At least she seems to be back on course towards the end. The character herself has realised she has been wasting her time with this peace nonsense.

I think GRRM's biggest mistake was splitting AFFC and ADWD geographically and scrapping the 5 year gap. He should have kept it as it was and split it up chronologically. Wouldnt have taken him 10 years to publish 2 books. Also I assume a lot of what happens in these books were supposed to be revealed as backstory filling in the 5 year gap, which is why a lot of the times it feels like nothing is happening.
 
You can.
 
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