The Great Patriotic War

anweRU said:

Ever lengthening flanks. A couple of Panzer Armees at the shoulders, and the RKKA would be in big trouble.

This reminds me of the discussions on how to reduce a bulge - whether the opposing Soviet-German bulges at Kursk & Orel, or the Ardennes bulge. From the shoulders, the middle or the tip... Looks like the German AI will try one or the other, judging by your discussion. Looking forward to the next few posts!

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In effect, my offensive into SE Poland is now stalled, not because of the opposition as such but due to the situation on the flanks, and the German determination to cut in behind my spearheads, it sets up 4-5 months of very frustrating action as I try one trick or another to resolve the situation - but my core problem is a lack of forces and the only feasible source of new units for the Ukraine is to clear the Germans out the Baltic region - something they are also very dedicated to resisting. So this sort of has the feel of the Soviet manouvres from late 44 to early 45 after Bagration. There are lots of loose ends all over the place that need to be resolved before its possible to issue the Na Zapad order.

Deus Eversor said:

That would awesome to have another, or even bigger than the Kursk battle!

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There are a few very large armour clashes coming up ... including one in a place I defy anyone to guess in advance (as a hint, its the last armour battle of the European phase of the war)

shepherd352 said:

An uprising near Warsaw and it is unlikely the Red Army will come to their rescue. Art imitates real life!

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A lot of this phase sort of does but from a writing point of view that particular partisan revolt couldn't have come at a better time/place to make the link back to actual events.

Stuyvesant said:

That picture of the fording tank is scary - I imagine it wouldn't take much to send that beast to the bottom of the river. Must be a tense ride...

Still more impressive gains in Poland, even if your lengthening flanks render your offensive powerless. You really need to clear up your lines before proceeding through Poland. I'm sure you'll manage, sooner rather than later.

Looking forward to seeing what surprises the Balkans hold for you, and then to see how soon you can capture Warsaw (your next major foreign prize, after Bucharest).

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You're basically right, I need to do a lot of housekeeping all across the front from the Baltic to the Black Sea, some of the solutions are essentially brute force, some come from switching angle of advance and one is (in my opinion) rather elegant (but you'll have to wait till 1944 for that one)

Axe27 said:

So, what will you do when you capture Poland? Liberate the Polish government, or simply leave it occupied?

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For a while I keep it under occupation as my view is its still an active warzone. Once its clear that all of the East and Central Poland is firmly under Soviet control I liberate it a puppet (which sets off another row with the UK)

arkham1010 said:

And IIRC, even more scary in the fact that the water sealing of the tanks was totally improvised. I think i remember reading something that the tankers would attempt to waterseal the various components themselves, using whatever they could get their hands on, up to and including pine pitch.

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aye, as Lord Tim says, Kravchenko was a genius but he also had a s**t happens mindset. That approach to river crossings unnerved the Germans in a few places but I'm sure did nothing for the nerves of his own tankers either.

Lord Tim said:

The 6th Tank Corps moved across several rivers by sealing their T-34s as best they could and driving across the river bottom. According to General Kravchenko, "A few tanks were lost this way."

Silly Poles, starting an uprising that far away from support. At least do it somewhere that you can claim the Red Army could have helped if it wanted to. But not the far side of Warsaw, with that many troops around. If that leads to the british getting upset then you probably need to send them a map.

It's looking a little shaky down in the southern sector, but unless there's a total collapse in Romania/Bulgaria with few forces surviving I don't think there's a real risk of the front giving way. The Carpathians are an obstacle for both sides, and defending the hills and rivers may have helped the Germans but it would help you too if you were forced to readjust the front.

And overall, the Lvov-Sandomierz offensive appears very close to being repeated. Now you just need Bagration in Belorussia.


Probably the tanks were sponsored by an allotment club. Perhaps the 1452nd Moscow Gardeners 'Hyacinth' Light Armoured Regiment.

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That south flank is unstable, but I mostly have the forces to respond to their counterstrokes, so for the most part it flows back and forth. The difficulty was my mind set ... I wanted to finish off the Reich, not engage in sparring along the length of the Dniestr.

Palm said:

Haha! You've got to love that quote! Always the realist, I predict this is the final blow to the Germans. Like a Bagration only further south.

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Not yet I'm afraid. In a way the AI comes up with a masterclass in indirect defence, it stops my drive into SE Poland and onwards more effectively than standing in front of my forces would. I also, just to keep things entertaining, give them a manpower boost when Soviet troops first enter German soil (sort of a realisation that they had better go over to full mobilisation as the threat is becoming very real). The net effect is the next 6 months have a very historical feel to them, slow steady Soviet gains against a resolute defence, trying to manouvre the entire front till the knock out blow (ie the drive to the Oder) can be launched.

"If you were Coming in the Fall": Bielorussia September 1943

The final stages of the summer offensive on the Western Strategic Axis yielded a major gain, but in a strangely subdued manner.



Minsk, so often a feature of Stavka's orders to the formations in the sector was liberated on 13 September with minimal fighting.



In effect, the Germans were pulling back due to the threat of the Rumiantsev offensive to their communications back to the Reich. The long sought for victory was a strangely low key affair.


(elements of the freshly re-equipped 1 Guards Mechanized Division move through the ruined streets of Minsk - the formation was to be involved in all the brutal winter battles as the Soviets entered East Prussia)

Elsewhere the bulk of the fighting was north of the River Dauga as the Soviets tried to trap the remnants of Army Group North in Estonia.

A direct attempt by 23 Army to take Narva from 12-13 September was quickly broken off when it was realised just how strong the German defensive positions were. With this defeat, the bulk of the pressure was applied by 28 Army and 8 Army operating south of Lake Ilmen and north of the Dauga.

However, as the two formations reorganised and prepared to attack towards Riga and the Baltic coast, the Germans struck at Voru and Vitaka on 14 September.



Their offensive caught the southern wing of 28 Army off balance but additional forces were quickly rushed to the sector. By 18 September, the Germans had fallen back to their starting lines leaving 3,000 of their colleagues dead in the marshes and small rivers that criss-crossed the region.


(28 Army offensive near Tartu)

By 20 September, 28 and 8 Armies were back on the offensive and making steady progress pushing into Eastern Estonia. By the end of the month, the southern wing of 8 Army fended off a German offensive along the line of the Dauga and at the same time eliminated their last strongpoint to the north of the river at Marachkova.



Overall, it was a strange lull in operations on this sector. Stavka, following its usual approach was ensuring that only one of the major elements of the Red Army was on the offensive at any time. So the Western Strategic Direction was limited to localised operations. Equally it seemed as if OKH was content to fall back, avoiding sustained defensive fighting. It seemed their operations were informed by a fear of a massive encirclement if 5 Army and 1 Tank Army breached their defences around Brest-Litovsk.


(SU-100s attached to 13 Army move up to their assault lines near Daugavipils)

However, as the rains of a Baltic autumn started, the tempo of operations on both sides was to increase. The lull of September was to be long forgotten as Stavka ordered the complete liberation of the USSR and OKH sought to defend this last barrier before Soviet forces entered the Reich proper.


(elements of 10 Army south of Minsk ... a rest before the vicious fighting that took them to the pre-war frontier in the Autumn and early Winter 1943)

Both sides were equally aware that if the Soviets won the battle for the Baltic States, in turn they would be able to reinforce the Ukraine, undermining the entire German defence.



Gameplay Note

Apols this is a short update, its just that too much happened to tie these events back into the August report and yet it doesn't quite belong in with the Autumn battles. So it really was fairly quiet.

But, 3 Soviet armies have seen almost no combat at all (those south of the Dauga around Minsk), so are back to full organisation and even 8 and 28 Armies have been able to send damaged formations to the rear ... so all 6 armies on the Western Strategic Direction are in excellent condition (in terms of organisation).

anweRU said:

The Baltic balcony is pretty historical in shape.

The last major German offensive was in Hungary in March'45, to rescue Budapest. Are we going to see a major tank battle at Lake Balaton or other location nearby?

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Lord Tim said:

Not so much the Belorussian balcony as the Batlic balcony, but the shape of the front looks quite historical even if it's further West.

I've got to agree, OKH appears happy to give up fairly major bits of territory rather than have a stand-up fight for them. Minsk for 46 casualties. Only 42 more than the Germans suffered capturing Paris, which suggests a very feeble defence. This makes holding Narva strongly seem a bit strange, but still. Unfortunately you're moving across terrain where there's a lot that helps the defender and hinders the attacker, so when they decide to stand your infantry are going to have a hard time shifting them. Do you have any cavalry divisions around, to exploit breakthroughs? A cavalry-mechanised group isn't a tank army, but it still has uses.

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Broadly you can read across from the situation at the end of my Summer offensives in the Ukraine to the situation at the end of the real Bagration. Only one side is now going to win, but it is not going to be easy. Not least as with Bagration, the scale of victory has brought problems all over the place with unresolved pockets and points of friction on any further advance westwards. So the next 4-5 months is all about cleaning up all those bits.

Key to me, is if I can clear the Germans down to Koenigsburg (I wish that damn town didn't change names so often ... I'm terminally confused as to what is was called when), then that is a massive shortening of the front. So I can then mass for the invasion of the Reich, send troops to the Far East and heavily reinforce in Hungary.

One problem is that the only mobile forces in the Western Sector are motorised rifle divs (to be honest I'd stuggle to say where they are - I just use them as rifle divisions) &, at this stage 1 (soon 3) mechanised inf divs (with attached TDs=combined arms), so its all infantry stuff, and the German AI is determined to make it as hard as it can for me.

As to the last tank battle in this timeline ... well to the west of Hungary ... but it does start with a rather surprising German victory.

FinnishFish said:

As always...
...Good update
...Steady progress
...Awesome pictures ^^

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one likes to deliver ....

Wraith11B said:

I see that last map and I just want to take a nice drive to Gdansk...

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Cybvep said:

The German troops would still be able to receive supplies by sea.

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Wraith11B said:

True, but if Soviet Naval and Frontal Aviation units could focus their efforts on ports and shipping, then the amount of supply and the distances involved would force the fascisti to abandon much of the Baltics, I think.

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Axe27 said:

True, but without an avenue of retreat, these divisions would be effectively worthless to the Germans, and could eventually be wiped out, even if they received supply.
For example, Army Group Kurland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Group_Courland) which was bottled up in Lativa during the final part of WW2, 200,000 troops that basically sat in Lativa and ate supply.

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I did think about replicating a Kurland style solution, especially as my subs are pretty dominant in the Batlic (though my surface fleet remains outclassed). In the end I decided the permanent need for a screen offset the potential time lost in clearing them out.

What I'm going to try to do is to splinter their front with a series of direct thrusts towards, in turn, Riga, Memel and then Koenigsburg/gratz/berg. The goal is to gain pockets rather than just shovel them back westwards, but as will be clear when I start the autumn reports, its slow brutal stuff.

Lord Fearless said:

A short but nice update.

I'm eagerly awaiting news from August

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up soon ... but its another quick one!

Stuyvesant said:

Apart from your check at Narva, it appears that you only enjoyed victories in this update (even if they were modest). Overall, it seems you were able to improve your positions and rest significant forces, which all bodes well for the future. If I were a German in, say, Königsberg, I'd be nervously packing my belongings and looking for a handy pushcart.

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Palm said:

Rather a handy boat!

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I'd leave by land if I were them ... unfortunately the Baltic shipping lanes are controlled by my subs.

Narva is typical of my mindset with the overall manpower problem. I do start breaking off secondary attacks quite early. Not least I can often threaten the rear of a strongpoint and then the AI will start to move out - I can then attack without facing the entrenchment malus.

Lafayette53 said:

I've been reading this AAR for a while and as a HOI series veteran I thought this AAR deserved more appraisal! When HOI3 was first released I was disappointed.. I was planning on upgrading my computer specifically for it, but the shape it was released in (not unlike HOI2 and HOI1 vanilla) was very broken. So I waited two years before wandering back to these forums specifically for AAR reading and I was inspired by your very engrossing AAR to finally purchase HOI3 since it has crossed the line (like Doomsday 1.2 did for HOI2) to "playable".

Anyway just thought I'd say well done. AAR's like this are excellent not just because they provide an engrossing tale, but because they really lay bare the strengths of the game.

Maybe I'll write one when I learn to play the game..

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I think that when HOI3 came out, Paradox made an incredibly bold attempt to build a non-cheating AI that could give a human opponent a real game (unlike in HOI2 where the AI cheats like mad ... and gives you a tough time). Clearly this was too much to get right at the start.

My solution with the early variants such as 1.1c was to play starts/countries where the stuff that didn't work didn't harm your enjoyment. So lots of SCW games (good for learning the combat routines) & a blast of a game with France using the 1938 scenario (taught me a lot about how to manouvre on the map, organise armies and so on).

With SF, and bit of manual buffing (like the gifts of manpower and supplies I've given it at stages), the AI became a real threat. I've not yet tried FTM (too busy playing AGEOD games at the moment), but it looks like that original promise has been delivered on.

But I'm glad you're enjoying this and its inspired you to re-engage with HOI.

Kryten said:

Great Update!

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crjs1 said:

I have been hooked on this for months! Another great update!!!

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thank you ... I do like praise .

Ok, before the update, this is near your last chances to vote.

First the HOI3 iron cross is up for grabs - the contestents are AARs that finished in 2010, they are all good, all worth another look, so please vote here. Also vote for your favourite current AARs at
here, voting closes on 1 August and its been rather sparse so far.

and now we leave the open plains of the Ukraine and the rivers and marshes of Bielorussian for a quick review of the dusty plains and high peaks of Western China.

"The Grave yields back her Robberies": Central Asia May-October 1943

By May 1943 it appeared as if the war in Central Asia was over, Japanese forces and their local allies were in disarray and the main barrier was not their resistance and more the huge distances involved.



In April, Stavka had again reduced the Soviet forces in this region by transferring another 3 divisions to the Far East where a slow but steady build up was being undertaken.

The remaining forces hit the retreating Japanese at Chindu capturing the province by 22 May.



At the same stage, the Soviets commenced what seemed to be an interminable offensive on the upper Yangtze at Dainkog. The Japanese defense in the mountains to the east of the town was broken with relatively heavy losses by 25 May, and fresh Japanese forces were deployed off the march throughout May and June. Lacking defensive preparations these were driven back with minimal Soviet and heavy Japanese casualties. The final battles in late June saw heavy Japanese losses as they were trapped between Soviet forces attacking from the west and British to the south.



However, this rare moment of co-operation with British forces quickly became a source of friction when the British occupied the small provincial town and claimed the province for themselves.


(Soviet and British forces at Daikog, whatever political frictions existed at a senior level, the troops on the ground saw each other as allies with a common enemy)

With the escalating partisan war in Indochina, it was clear that both powers saw the potential of a Japanese collapse in the region to impose favourable regimes.


(Growing partisan region in Indochina, the Free French region in Cambodia was to a major reason for the outbreak of a wider war in early 1944)

However, any potential for an armed clash was removed with the Japanese offensive that broke in early July. Their first attack on Soviet lines in Chindu from 5 to 17 July was held in a bloody stalemate, and the first significant Soviet losses in the region since the Altun Shan battles in February.


(the first battle of Chindu)

The respite was brief, as they attacked Chindu again from 1 to 20 August and following this victory recaptured Da Qaiden Zhen by 8 September.



In effect, the front was back where it had been at the end of April. At this stage, the Japanese offensive briefly stalled as they sought to eliminate the British incursion into SE China and push into Burma.


(The heavily reduced Soviet OOB on this sector)

Stavka, now saw Central Asia as a distraction.


(Soviet troops resting at Golmud after the retreat from the Yunnan borders)

The front line was far enough from the Soviet border to be of no real concern and 10 divisions of the Finnish army were being redeployed to take over from the few remaining Soviet forces. These in turn would be deployed to the arc around Manchuria were slowly an army was being amassed and infrastructure upgraded.



The Soviets now were planning to resolve the Central Asian border skirmishes with Japan by attacking in force in Manchuria.


(the rebuilt Transbaikal Front - the weakened divisions have been in action in Central Asia)

The only reason to delay was to wait till it was feasible to transfer battle hardened forces from the German front. For this, as with so much else in the Soviet planning in this period, recapturing the Baltic States and East Prussia was critical. With that front shortened, new troops would be freed up both for the Hungarian campaign and for redeployment to the Far East. As it was, two corps that had seen action in Central Asia in 1941 and 1942 were already bolstering the less experienced forces that had been no action since the border skirmishes in the late 1930s.


(Soviet OOB of the Eastern side of Manchuria, mostly concentrated at Vladivostock)