Flanders and Wallonia are purely Belgian "detail" though. The initial three really cover Netherlands. Though I concur these three are rather detailed, they do cover as much as you can reasonably do with the Netherlands in the Victorian age. I provided them more for the sake of completeness than that they are priority additions.Originally Posted by Trovador
Limburg could be added, as it was added to the German Confederacy when Belgium annexed half of Luxemburg (as compensation). Historically of course the Netherlands and Prussia were friendly nations so Limburg and Luxemburg were not considered for inclusion in either the small- or large-Germany plans for unification, but conceivably a more expansionist Prussia with a bad relation to the Netherlands could have enforced its claims for Limburg as well as Luxemburg.
CK2 mods: No more random heresies | Heretics convert to other religions | Blinding siblings possible for all | Jewish courtiers mini-mod | Make minor titles like Lord of the Hunt required | Form the Latin Empire by decision | Duel Engine and Tournament mod | Title creation requirements | Cultural exonyms and other tweaks to Landed Titles | Merchant Republic of Aden in the Indian Ocean | Blindfold instead of blinded eyes | Various micro-mods (see first post for contents) | Succession Law Factions for Ultimogeniture and Tanistry | Hand out all free minor titles by decision
In progress: A port of CK/DVIP character flavour events to CK2 | Christian Pilgrimages | More duels for the Duel Engine | New COA frames for religion groups
----
CK mods: Crusader Kings: Deus Vult Improvement Pack (DVIP) | DVIP Download + DVIP Addon(s) | CK-DV: break free mod | Various other event mods (in event mods subforum)
How about the de jure second kingdom of Portugal: Algarve?
The Algarve Kingdom (1242 – 1910) was, till the proclamation of the Portuguese Republic in 1910, the second kingdom of the Portuguese crown.
Plus, the Kingdom of Algarve didn't only compromise the Algarve region of today, but also every north African conquest of Portugal (Ceuta, Asilah, Tangier, Larache, Ksar-el-Kebir...).
More info here:
http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regne_de_l'Algarve (Catalŕ)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Königreich_Algarve (Deutsch)
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reino_de_Algarve (Espańol)
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reino_do_Algarve (Portuguęs)
Sorry, no English. You can always use Google Translate.
Transylvania
Genoa
Dagestan
Circassia
Greater Macedonia
England
Nations for each island in Indonesia
Belarus
Malta
Various Russian satellites? Siberia, Muscova, Novgorod?
I'll probably be able to help out with the mod itself; but in Vic1 I was never able to figure out parties for countries and elections.
There's no chance of a Nigerian state before the early 20th century. Even setting aside the cultural inequalities of Yoruba and Igbo people under British influence, there's no way the rich Muslims in the north would see themselves as similar to the relatively poor polytheistic south (prior to the discovery of oil, the south was poor farmland and the north was the domain of rich Muslim emirates that the British left alone - so long as they got a cut. that oil wasn't historically mobilized until post-independence in the 1960s, and it completely reversed the existing economic situation).
The borders of Nigeria today are determined by the British colonial holdings that bordered French Dahomey (Benin) and German Cameroon. It had nothing to do with cultural identities or natural geographic boundaries.
"Why will you take by force what you may have quietly by love? Why will you destroy us who supply you with food? What can you get by war? We can hide our provisions and run into the woods; then you will starve for wronging your friends. Why are you jealous of us? We are unarmed, and willing to give you what you ask, if you come in a friendly manner." - Powhatan to John Smith, 1607
ZinnMod v0.12 for Vicky 2
Palestine and Lebanon are missing as well. I think Israel would be a little "fantasy" for this age but, actually, Israel sounds rather implausible in our world too... it should be added, but I don't know how it would be implemented. There's no way Israel would appear as a revolter from the Ottoman Empire or Egypt, for example.
Nice additions - if India has all of its "princely states" represented, it's fair to represent the other ones as well. I would suggest to put just one of them - even a little ahistorical, it's not absurd to represent such regions "together" and, in a first phase, we should be more interested in more "generic" tags - otherwise the Clausewitz engine my suffer too much from the number of states.Group 1: Sultanate of Maguindanao and Sultanate of Sulu (Philippines)
In this map, I made the correction since I still don't know how many provinces that are included in the game as far as the Philippines is concerned. The whole archipelago are not controlled by Spain. The independent sultanates of Sulu and Maguindanao still exist.
Sultanate of Maguindanao
Pop: 500,000~750,000
Religion: Sunni
Government: Absolute Monarchy
Rulers:
1830-1854 Sultan Qudratullah Untung
1854-1884 Sultan Muhammad Makakwa
1884-1888 Sultan Wata
1888-1896 Succession crisis
Sultan Anwar ud-Din contested Datu Mamaku (son of Sultan Qudratullah Untung) of Buayan for the throne versus the then sultan Datu Mangigin of Sibugay.
1896-? Sultan Hadji Hamod Macataman
Sultanate of Sulu
Pop: 300,000~600,000
Religion: Sunni
Government: Absolute Monarchy
Has cores in Sabah and Brunei
Rulers:
Sultan Jamal ul-Kiram I 1823-1842
Sultan Muhammad Fadl 1842-1862
Sultan Jamalul Agdam 1862-1881
Sultan Harun al-Rashid 1886-1894
Sultan Jamal ul-Kiram II 1894-1936
I think King said something about a "Manifest Destiny" invention for the USA after the research of Romantism, and in it there would be an option to give them cores in California etc. I think we could use the same technique for Colombia, Argentina etc, if they become great powers - this way we don't need the artifitial "Gran Colombia" and "La Plata" tags (I don't know how this would work for pan-nationalists, though).
Even if "fantasy", I would love to see some sort of "United Provinces of South America" (Pan-American Union, or simply "Panamerica"?) nation as an union tag for the most ambitious players... the name still looks odd, though. It looks like that, by the 1810s, the name "Colombia" for all of hispanic America was usual, but it lost such meaning by the game start.
Uhn, Limburg may be a possible addition, in this case... but wouldn't it be best modelled as a german claim, rather than a new possible nation?
Algarve never existed, sorry
I mean, it was a kingdom the jure, but such division barely had any relevance trough history, specially trough the XIX century. Some sort of "southern Lusitania" kingdom for a napoleonic scenario may be plausible, but Algarve itself is not.
Isn't Transylvania in game already?
Most of those look like to be good additions - some are more plausible than others, but an "artificial" Macedonia, for example, may be in the interests of some great powers. Other of these nations, as Novgorod, would hardly be believable without an older Point-of-Divergence - they would be good for games which came from EU3, but not so good for normal games.
My bad, I was suggesting some kind of nation in the Nigeria-Cameroon region in case of early decolonization, but for a nation controlled by the white minorities anyway. I see, though, it would be even harder than I thought in such a populated region. I'll change it.
Last edited by Trovador; 10-08-2010 at 14:19.
"After Napoleon, both lieutenant and Emperor, all destinies are within this century" - Dom Camurro
--------------------------
"New Nations Mod" for Victoria 2
(version 1.00 (30/10))
50 new nations for your Vicky2 game!
Group 1:
Free Territory (1918-1921)
Anarcho-Communist state in south-eastern corner of Ukraine during the Civil War period in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory
Israel lokks very possible if you consider that a Zionist movement started in the end of 19th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Zionist_Congress
British suggested to give a 5000 square miles from their colonial possessions in east Africa in 1903 for the formation of the Jewish State, but the offer was declined on the Zionist Congress because the majority wanted a state in Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Uganda_Program
Now, how the map would have looked like today, if the offer would have been accepted?
Last edited by Nabatov; 10-08-2010 at 15:12.
De Jure from 1839 (Treaty of London) onwards the Duchy of Limburg was a separate country from the Kingdom of the Netherlands which just happened to share a ruler (like Luxemburg), so it got its own flag and everything. Of course nothing ever happened of this until 1867 (second ToL) when both Luxemburg and Limburg were removed from the German Confederacy, and the Duchy was dissolved (nobody held the title since or now).
Last edited by jordarkelf; 10-08-2010 at 15:29.
CK2 mods: No more random heresies | Heretics convert to other religions | Blinding siblings possible for all | Jewish courtiers mini-mod | Make minor titles like Lord of the Hunt required | Form the Latin Empire by decision | Duel Engine and Tournament mod | Title creation requirements | Cultural exonyms and other tweaks to Landed Titles | Merchant Republic of Aden in the Indian Ocean | Blindfold instead of blinded eyes | Various micro-mods (see first post for contents) | Succession Law Factions for Ultimogeniture and Tanistry | Hand out all free minor titles by decision
In progress: A port of CK/DVIP character flavour events to CK2 | Christian Pilgrimages | More duels for the Duel Engine | New COA frames for religion groups
----
CK mods: Crusader Kings: Deus Vult Improvement Pack (DVIP) | DVIP Download + DVIP Addon(s) | CK-DV: break free mod | Various other event mods (in event mods subforum)
Ok, this existed, but in no ways it classifies as a nation - it was quite obviously a revolt, a state occupied by rebels. It was occupied by a lot of time, ok, but their objective weren't nationalistic, but revolutionary. Vicky2 makes this distinction quite clearly, and even if it didn't , such event is far better represented by a communist revolt than by a nation tag.Group 1:
Free Territory (1918-1921)
Anarcho-Communist state in south-eastern corner of Ukraine during the Civil War period in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory
This is my point: Israel could be in East Africa, in Palestine or in many other places, but how could we model this in game?Israel lokks very possible if you consider that a Zionist movement started in the end of 19th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Zionist_Congress
British suggested to give a 5000 square miles from their colonial possessions in east Africa in 1903 for the formation of the Jewish State, but the offer was declined on the Zionist Congress because the majority wanted a state in Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Uganda_Program
Now, how the map would have looked like today, if the offer would have been accepted?
Maybe if we create an event giving such possibilities, and events can give cores, national cultures etc like we need, this could be done... and would be a very interesting adition, I agree.
And, when I said it looked like "fantasy", I mean that it is a state that formed in a very unique way, different from almost every other state of this age, so it can't be modeled like others... but, if Vicky2 is as friendly to mod as we expect it to be and this mod grows to include this kind of event etc, I can see it happening.
Right, but isn't it in the same situation of, for example, Algarve? It was de jure a state, but de facto it was under Netherlands for any real matter. It could be, for example, a nation to be "liberated" from Netherlands, but I believe that a power, probably german, who would ask for something like this would or annex the state (into Germany) or "puppetize" the Netherlands directly... but, if Vicky2 represents so many german minors, I can see Limburg being represented too. How independent was it, compared to other german states?
"After Napoleon, both lieutenant and Emperor, all destinies are within this century" - Dom Camurro
--------------------------
"New Nations Mod" for Victoria 2
(version 1.00 (30/10))
50 new nations for your Vicky2 game!
It was not at all independent, and de facto it never got any status beyond that of other Dutch provinces.
Historically Prussia never challenged the Netherlands over Limburg, and it was added just to keep them happy with the legal fiction of the German Confederation not being deprived of the population of Belgian Luxemburg.
Could be nice to add if we want to give a player or the AI to chance to cut Holland down to size, but should have low priority.
CK2 mods: No more random heresies | Heretics convert to other religions | Blinding siblings possible for all | Jewish courtiers mini-mod | Make minor titles like Lord of the Hunt required | Form the Latin Empire by decision | Duel Engine and Tournament mod | Title creation requirements | Cultural exonyms and other tweaks to Landed Titles | Merchant Republic of Aden in the Indian Ocean | Blindfold instead of blinded eyes | Various micro-mods (see first post for contents) | Succession Law Factions for Ultimogeniture and Tanistry | Hand out all free minor titles by decision
In progress: A port of CK/DVIP character flavour events to CK2 | Christian Pilgrimages | More duels for the Duel Engine | New COA frames for religion groups
----
CK mods: Crusader Kings: Deus Vult Improvement Pack (DVIP) | DVIP Download + DVIP Addon(s) | CK-DV: break free mod | Various other event mods (in event mods subforum)
EDIT: Updated with new info.
Unless the evolution of the Zionist movement could be coded in through decisions (which I don't think would really be that hard), "modern" Israel wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. If that series of events could call into place, however, it would be a bit more feasible.
Certain qualifiers should also be kept in mind: the existence of any in-game state (due to revolt or otherwise) with Judaism as a state religion should disqualify (or at least severely minimize) the potential for the creation of Israel, while states that have significant Jewish/Sephardic/Ashkenazi minorities should have consciousness-inflating events pertaining to autonomy/sovereignty.
There would need to be a reason for Israel to come about, as it is a bit more complicated than just a revolting entity - it's a religious (and cultural, depending on V2 can handle it) state. The player should certainly be able to foster it into existence. Interestingly, Arab figures did at times try to assist in the creation of a Jewish homeland: the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement between Zionist leader Chaim Weizmann and the Hedjazi heir Emir Faisal is proof of this, and is something that modders should take note of (especially in this early stage of V2, where there is nowhere to go but up). For "Israel" as we now know it to come alive in V2, events such as the Sykes-Picot Agreement and the Balfour Declaration would need to be simulated. In addition, international support for the creation of Israel was bolstered by the horrific events of World War II; perhaps there could be the potential for nations to offer amnesty to marginalized cultural groups within other countries?
As an aside, there was an Ottoman vassal state in modern-day Lebanon during the 1830's known as Mount Lebanon - it would be a reasonable corollary to a country with the Lebanon country TAG, and it actually did exist within the game's timeframe.
What I don't like about the V2 map is that, in places where there was a fractured or decentralized political authority, it is left completely unrepresented. Another mod mentioned, the Afghanistan mini-mod, addresses this issue in a way that this mod should also keep in mind: by representing it factually and giving a region some flavor.
Here's a list of states that existed at the start of the game, ones that Paradox left out.
- Kingdom of Dahomey (in modern-day Benin; one of the bigger West African states, emerged as an anti-slavery power but eventually succumbed to engaging in it; Dahomey existed far into V2's timeline and represented a surprising challenge to the French until approximately 1900)
- Ashanti Confederacy (similar to Dahomey, but in modern-day Ghana and longer-lasting; another of the more important West African states, the Ashanti Confederacy was a relatively centralized power with a complex legal system, militarily expansionist policies and plenty of contact with the Europeans)
- Bahrain/Kuwait (combined for the sake of explanation: these two states add flavor to the Gulf and have their own rather unique histories of sectarian conflict and interaction with regional powers; they are actual, real, existing states during this time and deserve to be noted by anyone hoping to flesh out the game)
- Caucasia/Daghestan (as in, the Avar/Chechen/Northern Caucasian theocratic entity led by Imam Shamil in the V2 provinces of Gunib, Grozny et al. from 1834 to 1859; I was honestly surprised that Paradox left this state out, as it functioned as a major roadblock (and a source of centralized authority!) to Russian expansion into the Caucasus and drew distinct attention from other Great Powers; the TAG could very easily be utilized to represent separatist states which emerged as Tsarist Russia collapsed, as well)
If I think of any more, I'll spout them. These are some pretty distinct examples, for starters.
Last edited by GorkoTheDuck; 10-08-2010 at 21:12.
While some of my suggested nations weren't idea's in the minds of Victorians at the time, I'm not sure putting them in game would be such a bad idea. Are we just looking for historical possibilities, or ideas with which to give the game more satellites?
I'm just questioning the motive of this mod; I would consider the entire break up of the US into individual states as rather impossible by this time in History, but that doesn't mean it couldn't make the game better. I mean, say someone wants to control Russia, but they don't want a massive country that could potentially out-do them in the future of them game, even if satellited. So then, if there are options to split up the country into various states, they become more easily controlled, and there is more variety to the game; the Victorian Aged People would have found a way, given that some states brought into existence around the end attempted to conform to historical borders, and not exactly nationality or reason.
I would also like to add that with more nations that weren't necessarily historical, rebels that through the actions of the player aren't necessarily historical either have options to set up more states without needing to cause a revolution in the entire country.
Last edited by Cthulhu318; 10-08-2010 at 21:56.
Some suggestions. All of these actually existed:
Ingria (Map)
Idel-Ural
Southern Rhodesia
Fiume
Theft is a monarchical custom, but Bourbons exaggerate it.
Talleyrand
I'd like to suggest Cascadia for group 3.
The focal nations that I will be adding as I begin my Dark Continent project (still looking for a name that contains a healthy amount of libel) will be the Aro Confederacy, the Oyo Empire, and Kanem-Bornu. I considered Hausaland, but on further research they were conquered by the Sokoto Caliphate in 1808, who launched a jihad on them four years prior. I know Nigeria, so I'm starting where I know.
If you want to dip into the extraneous, there's that warlord state lead by the Bloody Baron in Mongolia. It broke off from the White Russians, was backed by the Japanese, and raided White and Red supply trains to put a serious hamper in all White activity east of the Urals.
"Why will you take by force what you may have quietly by love? Why will you destroy us who supply you with food? What can you get by war? We can hide our provisions and run into the woods; then you will starve for wronging your friends. Why are you jealous of us? We are unarmed, and willing to give you what you ask, if you come in a friendly manner." - Powhatan to John Smith, 1607
ZinnMod v0.12 for Vicky 2
This.
I would also suggest Trucial Oman instead of the UAE, that came later.
1 Clerk
Nationality: Catalan
Religion: Atheist
Ideology: Liberal
Issues: Protectionism / 5 Hour Max Work Day
Current Work: Cement Factory
Cash Reserves: Enough
Revolt Risk: 1.8%
Militancy: 4.3
Consciousness: 7.8
Considering Abu Dhabi already has its own TAG, and that Qatar/Bahrain (which are possessions of Abu Dhabi in-game) should definitely be their own factions, it might be worth just adding Dubai (the last future-UAE province) as its own sheikhdom. It's historically accurate, and it would give us a reason to come up with a unification event for the Arabian portion of the Gulf, one that would lead to the creation of the Trucial States (or whatever name you'd like to give the TAG).
Ok, good to know - I'll keep note of it, but it'll come only when we start balkanizing the world ().
@ Israel: it seems to need a whole mod to simulate it properly, at least to take all this possibilities...
@Other countries:
-uhn, I would appreciate some help with the bigger african kingdoms, however I'm against adding the smaller ones - I prefer the game to keep the victorian point of view, in which Africa is the "big empty continent" to be colonized. Obviously it wasn't empty, but this simulates better the colonial dynamics and thoughts of this age.
-I prefer the simplification of all the emirates into a single tag for now, but we can progress the mod to add them latter.
-Caucasia/Daguestan seems very interesting to add.
Sorry if I was rather confuse in my answer, but I *liked* your ideas - this is exactly the plan of this mod: to add more options of alt-history, if things happened differently in these 100 years - or if they happened as OTL but were not represented in game.
Apart from Rhodesia and Fiume, the other ones did not existed for enough time, but they do deserve representation at least in "group 2". Nice finds!
Nice finds! Added.
As I said earlier, I don't like to add the african nations, in general, but the most important ones should be interesting to put in.
Ironically, there's already a representation of Baron Roman von Ungern state in Mongolia, if you look to the fascist flag of Mongolia - we just need to mod in a "White Army" kind of rebel and allow it to invade other countries.
(I *must* do an AAR with Bloody Baron's Mongolia!)
I agree to change Abu Dabhi into Trucial Oman, as it represents better the real situation of the region in this age.
I prefer, for now, to keep with more "generic" tags, and add the specific ones in a latter phase of the mod.
--------------------------
I've been looking to the demo's archives, and it looks like the modularity will not be possible, as there are many things in the "localization" files... except if we can keep separate localization files.
Anyway, I'll add a little new objective for this mod (I hope this won't rise my infamy, or at least rise my prestige once it's completed): to rename some nations when it's appropriated. For example, to rename Papal States to Roman Republic, when it becomes a democracy (I hope this is correct in the full version or in the 1.2 patch, but...) or other personalized names like this.
----------------------------
I've just realized paradox is actually adding Iceland, Israel and Byzantium in the next patch... I assume they'll correct things like the Roman Republic as well, so we can wait for then in these parts.
The nations they're *not* going to add, though, can already begin to be more carefully planned -specifically their parties, flags, names and cores.
Can you help me with these informations?
(latter today I'll post the flags, parties and such for the Brazilian revolters, as a "model")
Last edited by Trovador; 11-08-2010 at 18:34.
"After Napoleon, both lieutenant and Emperor, all destinies are within this century" - Dom Camurro
--------------------------
"New Nations Mod" for Victoria 2
(version 1.00 (30/10))
50 new nations for your Vicky2 game!
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