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Thread: Capitalists or the Capital - which comes first?

  1. #41
    Field Marshal KonradRichtmark's Avatar
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    But will the first-promoted Capitalist still be alive when the last-promoted Capitalist finally has made the contribution that finishes the factory? Not only has he been investing throughout the building process, he's also had to fund his Capitalist lifestyle, and all of this without any income during the time.

    Also, while at Capitalists, have their spending patterns changed since V1? With Capitalists always first spending their money on consumer goods and only the remainder on investments, you had a situation where effectively the price of supporting a Capitalist's lifestyle was fixed, any extra money you'd give them would go directly to building factories and railroads, and it became (unrealistically enough) almost a no-brainer (and a very gamey one too) to tax them at 0%.
    So.. digital distribution equals communism?
    I disagree SO MUCH that I have to close this thread now.
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  2. #42
    Evil princess-grabber pingupower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    What happens is this, When the first Capitalists promotes, he picks a project to build. Sinks his money in and the goods start to be bought to build the factory. As more Capitalists promote they will continue to sink their money into the project. Once enough Capitalists appear enough money is raised and the factory is built. Now is the time to flip national focus to Crafstmen. As long as a factorty is being built the Craftsmen will hang around starve a little until the thing is finished. A bit odd I know, but it is better than the factory instanty shutting down once built because there is no one yet there to work in it.
    Wont the craftmen leave the country in the meantime?

    And will there be alerts for emigrating POPs? In Vicky 1 I had a few bad surprises of POPs leavign whle my factorieswere built making them useless.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingupower View Post
    Wont the craftmen leave the country in the meantime?

    And will there be alerts for emigrating POPs? In Vicky 1 I had a few bad surprises of POPs leavign whle my factorieswere built making them useless.
    Presumeably they know a factory is being built and thus aren't in such a huge rush to emigrate/devolve, at least not faster than they're promoting.

    See the France AAR on how there's a summary of all emigration sources&amounts.

  4. #44
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonradRichtmark View Post
    But will the first-promoted Capitalist still be alive when the last-promoted Capitalist finally has made the contribution that finishes the factory? Not only has he been investing throughout the building process, he's also had to fund his Capitalist lifestyle, and all of this without any income during the time.

    Also, while at Capitalists, have their spending patterns changed since V1? With Capitalists always first spending their money on consumer goods and only the remainder on investments, you had a situation where effectively the price of supporting a Capitalist's lifestyle was fixed, any extra money you'd give them would go directly to building factories and railroads, and it became (unrealistically enough) almost a no-brainer (and a very gamey one too) to tax them at 0%.
    No, not for the first factory. Once they have one and are thinking about building another they first make sure they are alright.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  5. #45
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingupower View Post
    Wont the craftmen leave the country in the meantime?

    And will there be alerts for emigrating POPs? In Vicky 1 I had a few bad surprises of POPs leavign whle my factorieswere built making them useless.
    No, read this post here.

    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    What happens is this, When the first Capitalists promotes, he picks a project to build. Sinks his money in and the goods start to be bought to build the factory. As more Capitalists promote they will continue to sink their money into the project. Once enough Capitalists appear enough money is raised and the factory is built. Now is the time to flip national focus to Crafstmen. As long as a factorty is being built the Craftsmen will hang around starve a little until the thing is finished. A bit odd I know, but it is better than the factory instanty shutting down once built because there is no one yet there to work in it.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  6. #46
    OT's own Sgt. Schultz telesien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    No, not for the first factory. Once they have one and are thinking about building another they first make sure they are alright.
    Interesting... Does that mean that the game keeps track wich capitalist POP has share in which factory, so that there can be clear distinction when they build their first? Or is this true only when we talk about the very first factory in each state?
    "'Religious faith. Belief in daemons, belief in spirits, belief in an afterlife and all the other trappings of a preternatural existence, simply existed to make us all more comfortable and content in the face of a measureless cosmos. They were sops, bolsters for the soul, crutches for the intellect, prayers and lucky charms to help us through the darkness. But we have witnessed the cosmos now, my friends. We have passed amongst it. We have learned and understood the fabric of reality. We have seen the stars from behind, and found they have no clockwork mechanisms, no golden chariots carrying them abroad. We have realized there is no need for god, or any gods, and by extension no use any longer for daemons or devils or spirits."


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  7. #47
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by telesien View Post
    Interesting... Does that mean that the game keeps track wich capitalist POP has share in which factory, so that there can be clear distinction when they build their first? Or is this true only when we talk about the very first factory in each state?
    No all the capitalists in the state are conisdered to own all the factories in the state in one gaint socialist collective. Socialism, it's great for game mechanics.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  8. #48
    Evil princess-grabber pingupower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    No, read this post here.
    I meant the part

    As long as a factorty is being built the Craftsmen will hang around starve a little until the thing is finished

  9. #49
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingupower View Post
    I meant the part
    They are going to hang around starve, means they will hang around and starve.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  10. #50
    So if I set the taxes for the rich at 0% they´ll consume more + build more factories instead of only build new ones right?

    And how often are people from the upper class emmigrating into other states?

    And if I set my taxes for the upper classes at 0 % my country should become more attractive for the upper classes and thus increase the upper class immigration, right?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrafKeks View Post
    So if I set the taxes for the rich at 0% they´ll consume more + build more factories instead of only build new ones right?

    And how often are people from the upper class emmigrating into other states?

    And if I set my taxes for the upper classes at 0 % my country should become more attractive for the upper classes and thus increase the upper class immigration, right?
    They will only build if the current set of factories aren't too empty. People are always considered to be in motion. No matter how happy your people may be there are always those with a sense of adventure who will go elsewhere. Keeping them happy just slows it down. People don't look at taxes when deciding to emigrate.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  12. #52
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    Funnily, this is reminiscent of what economists term a "coordination problem".

    In order for a country to modernize/industrialize, a set of conditions must be fulfilled, like educated workforce, infrastructure, production equipment etc. But if one link is not present, the investment made in e.g. education, is worthless, thus it is with great risk someone invests in education, when it is not ceratin his skills will be apprechiated...
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    Socialism, it's great for game mechanics.
    This just might have to become part of my sig someday . . . . One of your best lines, I think.

    BTW, I think this is an entirely plausible mechanism for creating early industrialization. I've been reading about scaling up of artisanal workshops in the 18th c recently. Wrong century, I know, but it's the right idea!
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    They will only build if the current set of factories aren't too empty. People are always considered to be in motion. No matter how happy your people may be there are always those with a sense of adventure who will go elsewhere. Keeping them happy just slows it down. People don't look at taxes when deciding to emigrate.
    When will the caps recognise the factories to be too empty? When a lot of them are half-filled with workers?

    So I only can slow down the emmigration process down via taxes.But if there are a lot of jobs available they´re more likely to emmigrate and thus the capitalists will build a new factory and it might lure more emmigrants in my country?

  15. #55
    OT's own Sgt. Schultz telesien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    No all the capitalists in the state are conisdered to own all the factories in the state in one gaint socialist collective. Socialism, it's great for game mechanics.
    I'm perfectly happy with that. As long as decreasing profit margin for each one of them will push them to invest more (provided that their factories have enough workers to function properely) instead of just sitting on their asses and starving to artisan status
    "'Religious faith. Belief in daemons, belief in spirits, belief in an afterlife and all the other trappings of a preternatural existence, simply existed to make us all more comfortable and content in the face of a measureless cosmos. They were sops, bolsters for the soul, crutches for the intellect, prayers and lucky charms to help us through the darkness. But we have witnessed the cosmos now, my friends. We have passed amongst it. We have learned and understood the fabric of reality. We have seen the stars from behind, and found they have no clockwork mechanisms, no golden chariots carrying them abroad. We have realized there is no need for god, or any gods, and by extension no use any longer for daemons or devils or spirits."


    - Primary Iterator Kyril Sindermann

  16. #56
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrafKeks View Post
    When will the caps recognise the factories to be too empty? When a lot of them are half-filled with workers?

    So I only can slow down the emmigration process down via taxes.But if there are a lot of jobs available they´re more likely to emmigrate and thus the capitalists will build a new factory and it might lure more emmigrants in my country?
    Basically they look at the factories in the state, if there is one without many workers they won't build another.

    POPs check for jobs when deciding where to move. They also check for unemployment as well. Large numbers of unemployed of thier type convinces them to pick somewhere else.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by telesien View Post
    I'm perfectly happy with that. As long as decreasing profit margin for each one of them will push them to invest more (provided that their factories have enough workers to function properely) instead of just sitting on their asses and starving to artisan status
    In LF, they will shut the factory and look to build another. Finally removing it to free up a slot. If you do not subsidise factories the same thing can happen.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by KonradRichtmark View Post
    Also, while at Capitalists, have their spending patterns changed since V1? With Capitalists always first spending their money on consumer goods and only the remainder on investments, you had a situation where effectively the price of supporting a Capitalist's lifestyle was fixed, any extra money you'd give them would go directly to building factories and railroads, and it became (unrealistically enough) almost a no-brainer (and a very gamey one too) to tax them at 0%.
    This was largely true, except that you ended up spammed with every form of factory in every state very quickly. It was usually worth it to set rich taxes to 0 before you got a railway upgrade tech, let them handle it all, and then set their taxes to 20 or 30% which allowed you to run the economy well enough. But yes, the default setting for most industrializing nations in vic1 was unfortunately Tariffs at max and Rich Taxes at 0. I blame OHGamer for teaching me about this.

  19. #59
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    How do you subside a factory?

    How do capitalists makes money with a railroad?

  20. #60
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    How do you subside a factory?

    How do capitalists makes money with a railroad?
    Click the box, subsidise factories.

    Railways increase outputs for RGOs and Factories. So the Capuitalists will make more money.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

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