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Thread: Napoleonic Victory Mod

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Napoleonic Victory Mod

    The idea is to create an alternate history mod in which Napoleon had his way. The world in 1836 would be a much different one, the most evident changes would be a redrawn map of Europe and a new balance of power, with France as the dominating power through the 19th century instead of the UK.

    There was a mod like this planned for V1, but unfortunately it never came to be. Maybe this time will be different. It's probably a lot of work, but first we would need to figure how would a Napoleonic world would look, then different people could concentrate on the different regions of the world.

  2. #2
    Absent Minded Orinsul's Avatar
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    If its just owner=, controller= changes
    then this mod is extremely easy to make in V2 whereas it was next to impossible in Victoria.
    So getting a team wont really be needed, maybe for flavour events and the like
    but really its an hour or two on each continent, unless you want POP reorganisations which is hard work.
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    If it's to be a good mod, I suppose some POP re-arrangements might be neccesary, but I suggest you just leech POP-files from the V.I.P. mod, they have already done alot of research...

    Not much would be different in a NB-victory mod compared to OTL in terms of POPs except for minor things like possibly Boers and American settler...

  4. #4
    The most important part of this mod would be HOW Napoleon won. Greater success in his earlier campaigns? No continental system? No invasion of Russia? Invasion of Britain? Early Cold War-like situation in Europe across the straights? No invasion of Spain? Napoleon bankrolls the revolutions in the Spanish colonies to cut off Britain from Latin American goods? Napoleon sends trained generals to train and command the Americans in the War of 1812 meaning Britain has to direct large amounts of troops to British North America? The possibilities are endless.

  5. #5
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    Perhaps something like this -
    Recognizing the vast logistical difficulties inherent in invading Russia, Napoleon postponed his invasion until early in 1813, when better logistics could be prepared for his Grand Armee. The Russians, though well prepared, could not withstand this overwhelming force and were forced to retreat to the east. However, at a small village of Kubinka, only a week’s march from Moscow Tsar Alexander I decided he could not allow Napoleon to capture Moscow. Beginning on September 27 and lasting two days, a battle raged that took a toll on both armies. On the 28th, it appeared that the Russians were getting the worst of it and the Tsar, who had until now been merely content to observe the campaign, decided that what was needed was to lead one last charge to break the French center. He was decapitated by a lucky cannonball and in the ensuing rout not only was half of the Russian army captured, but also most of the royal family, including the 17 year old heir, Nicholas. Though the following winter was very harsh and killed nearly 100,000 of the French troops, there was very little organized resistance to occupation. Napoleon appointed Peter Villinghausen-Romanov, part of a scion of the royal family that had fled long ago to Lorraine, Peter IV of Russia. With the assistance of French occupation forces, which were led by Napoleons trusted Marshal Davout, Peter IV was able to hold on to the throne through many years of strife after the shock of Alexander’s death wore off. The victory in Russia allowed Napoleon to not only allocate more resources to the open wound of Spain, but also to take command there personally in 1815. He pushed the last remnants of the British into the sea in 1817, and a low level war was fought for years at sea, with neither side getting enough resources to try to invade the other. The quick victory in Russia also did much to cow the subjugated states such as Prussia and Austria-Hungary. While the guerilla war never quite stopped on the Iberian Peninsula and there has always been unrest in Russia against the Tsar who is seen as foreign, peace really did seem to reign in Europe, albeit under the threat of invasion by the French. Today however, at the dawn of January 1, 1836, the rumblings of unrest are again heard in Europe as states that once were conquered by the French once again begin to come into their own while French power is beginning to slip, particularly under the rule of Napoleon’s son, Napoleon II.

    That turned out much longer than I intended.
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  6. #6
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    Contrary to the previous mod, there should be no independent Brazil. Provided that the King is still there, the United Kingdom of Portugal & Brazil still formally exists. Therefore, all Brazillian territory should accrue to that political entity. Besides, the Portuguese Estremadura (Lisbon and the surrounding region) were supposed to be directly controlled by France, while the Kingdom of Northern Lusitania would be a French satellite (ruled by one of Napoleon's brothers, or cousins, or whatever) and the Algarves a Spanish satellite (Godoy's personal realm).

  7. #7
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    What if after Leipzig Napoleon accepts an offer from Alexander of a return to the 1793 borders?



    That would give us a strong France, but not one that's so powerful it feels futile when you load it up.

    What about the USA?

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  8. #8
    I think that by 1836, Napoleon I will most likely be dead. His successor will probably not be as warlike as his predecessor, but that will remove a lot of the prestige from the empire and it will maybe crumble due to nationalism and revolts.

    Just some thoughts.

  9. #9
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    Don't forget that if Napoleon won, it wouldn't mean that he owned all of Europe, Russia and Austria-Hungary would still exist in much the same borders (though perhaps with French satelites split off, like the Grand-Duchy of Warsaw). However by 1836 many of these satellites will have probably split off, weakening France. France should still be hegemon, but not overwhelmingly so.

  10. #10
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    Wasnt Napoleon on winning going to divide europe up into new states along Nationalistic Borders, i.e. one culture, one country. I know that was the plan for Austria anyway but i think the rest of europe as well.
    maybe with all of europe being in union tags or as like post-great war broken into small republics, with France the gleaming heart.
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  11. #11
    I hope this mod has a balance of power from start, or it will be terribly boring to play. I think France, the United Kingdom, Russia are given candidates for Great Powers from start.

  12. #12
    I'm the person who originally posted that thread and was planning that mod. Unfortunately some RL things happened that drew me away from paradox games in general. I did complete almost all of the border changes, pop modifications, and flags. However, I still had to do events, ai files, and military rebalancings. I'm interested in trying again for Victoria 2 though, and was going to post a thread later this week. Ideally the modding process will be easier in Victoria 2.

    Here's the tentative history I had formulated with the help of others in the thread: Napoleon does not replace the Bourbons in Spain, thus crushing Portugal without sparking massive guerrilla movements in Spain. Also, he cultivates a better relationship with Alexander I, not necessarily to the point of alliance but a friendly neutrality. Without the peninsular "ulcer" and a guarantee of Russian neutrality at least, Napoleon can focus on building a fleet and simply overwhelm with sheer numbers the UK, invading in 1813, '14, or '15.

    The dominant powers would be:
    France
    Russia - in this TL Alexander stays liberal, reforming the country significantly
    Spain - without the replacement of the Bourbons and the unrest caused by that they still hold their American colonies (Viceroyalties of New Spain, New Granada, La Plata, Peru, and the Captaincy of Chile) in a close relationship

    England suffered from civil unrest due to the Napoleonic Wars in our timeline, in this one the country starts in the middle of a civil war between an English Republic of Radicals, Chartists, and Utopian Socialists versus UK Royalist and Conservative forces.

    The United States was able to push further during the war of 1812, since Napoleon had put the British under greater pressure. As a result, Anglo Canada has been annexed into the Union, while Quebec is a free nation with ties to France. Unfortunately, this caused an early secession crisis. The addition of multiple Northern states and the likelihood that Southern expansion would be difficult due to a stronger New Spain (Mexico) resulted in much of the South leaving the Union in 1832. This CSA-analog (name was undetermined) is under its first Presidency of John C. Calhoun.

    I haven't even really gotten started on the changes I made. I plan on posting some maps of the Vicky 1 scenario later this week when I have a chance. I plan on working on something like this for Victoria 2.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserChicken View Post
    Contrary to the previous mod, there should be no independent Brazil. Provided that the King is still there, the United Kingdom of Portugal & Brazil still formally exists. Therefore, all Brazillian territory should accrue to that political entity. Besides, the Portuguese Estremadura (Lisbon and the surrounding region) were supposed to be directly controlled by France, while the Kingdom of Northern Lusitania would be a French satellite (ruled by one of Napoleon's brothers, or cousins, or whatever) and the Algarves a Spanish satellite (Godoy's personal realm).
    Eh, it's debateable whether a state confined to Brazil and disliked by the ruling world powers would still be considered Portugal, especially 20 years after the fact. I did give Brazil cores on Portugal, and was planning an event should they retake the region to TAG-switch back to Portugal. In Vicky 2 this would be int he decisions.

    As for estremadura, yes it wass ruled by France at the beginning, but the region was just too volatile and problematic for Napoleon to hold onto. In my timeline, he gave it to the Spanish Bourbons in exchange for taking some of his war debt. And yes, Northern Lusitania and Algarve were in the old mod and would have been ruled by those people, but would be essentially in Spain's sphere.

    Brazil would have a decision to become Portugal if they retake the country (or maybe just the estremadura).
    Spain would have a decision that would at least involve a flag change and some benefit to becoming an Iberian Union, if they conquered Northern Lusitania and Algarve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orinsul
    Wasnt Napoleon on winning going to divide europe up into new states along Nationalistic Borders, i.e. one culture, one country. I know that was the plan for Austria anyway but i think the rest of europe as well.
    maybe with all of europe being in union tags or as like post-great war broken into small republics, with France the gleaming heart.
    Maybe at first, but once he became Emperor, Napoleon was really just fighting to expand his control. Look at how he rearranged Italy - he removed the republics and created a Kingdom of Italy, Naples, and Etruria, putting his relatives in charge. Also, like Don_Quigleone said, Napoleonic victory doesn't mean all of Europe was under his boot. At least in the timeline of the old mod, Russia benefitted pretty significantly by expanding into the Balkans and Ottomans. After all, Napoleon did offer Alexander an alliance with the idea being that they would push out the Turks and march to the Indus together.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varning View Post
    I'm the person who originally posted that thread and was planning that mod. Unfortunately some RL things happened that drew me away from paradox games in general. I did complete almost all of the border changes, pop modifications, and flags. However, I still had to do events, ai files, and military rebalancings. I'm interested in trying again for Victoria 2 though, and was going to post a thread later this week. Ideally the modding process will be easier in Victoria 2.

    Here's the tentative history I had formulated with the help of others in the thread: Napoleon does not replace the Bourbons in Spain, thus crushing Portugal without sparking massive guerrilla movements in Spain. Also, he cultivates a better relationship with Alexander I, not necessarily to the point of alliance but a friendly neutrality. Without the peninsular "ulcer" and a guarantee of Russian neutrality at least, Napoleon can focus on building a fleet and simply overwhelm with sheer numbers the UK, invading in 1813, '14, or '15.

    The dominant powers would be:
    France
    Russia - in this TL Alexander stays liberal, reforming the country significantly
    Spain - without the replacement of the Bourbons and the unrest caused by that they still hold their American colonies (Viceroyalties of New Spain, New Granada, La Plata, Peru, and the Captaincy of Chile) in a close relationship

    England suffered from civil unrest due to the Napoleonic Wars in our timeline, in this one the country starts in the middle of a civil war between an English Republic of Radicals, Chartists, and Utopian Socialists versus UK Royalist and Conservative forces.

    The United States was able to push further during the war of 1812, since Napoleon had put the British under greater pressure. As a result, Anglo Canada has been annexed into the Union, while Quebec is a free nation with ties to France. Unfortunately, this caused an early secession crisis. The addition of multiple Northern states and the likelihood that Southern expansion would be difficult due to a stronger New Spain (Mexico) resulted in much of the South leaving the Union in 1832. This CSA-analog (name was undetermined) is under its first Presidency of John C. Calhoun.

    I haven't even really gotten started on the changes I made. I plan on posting some maps of the Vicky 1 scenario later this week when I have a chance. I plan on working on something like this for Victoria 2.
    I really don't think having such an elaborate backstory and so many changes would be the best way to do this - not only would the setting end up being a bit convoluted, but it goes against the way Vicky tends to be played (where the initial 20-30 years are primarily devoted to peaceful buildup and expansion), and the contextual way the event system in new Paradox games works (which have a much less strong narrative thrust than in Vicky1 or HOI2). Plus if the setting is too unfamiliar and convoluted, things just become a bit weird and not much fun to play.

    I think the best way of doing things would just be to come up with a reasonable POD where the Napoleonic Wars end in something of a stalemate, and by the 1830s you have Britain, France and Russia as roughly equal great/world powers/weak hegemons, Germany and Italy as potentially unstable zones ready to explode around the equivalent of 1848, and maybe places like Egypt and the Marathas stronger than in vanilla for people who want to take up the Unciv -> Civ route.

    This way, you get a quite different game experience with relatively minor changes, overcome one of the big built-in issues with the regular game / real 19th century (early British total dominance), allow a lot more in the way of equal colonial and economic competition to take place in the first few decades of play, and could just leave things to run themselves from the setup with the regular event system but with hopefully quite different results each time.

  15. #15
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    This mod certainly looks interesting. And contrary to many large-scale mods this one should be relatively easy to implement Looking forward to see it.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatia1871 View Post
    < long post >
    Hear, hear!

  17. #17
    I vote for Travalgar as the divergence point!

    edit: in any case, there's a lot of ideas and graphics in the Vic 1 threat, the maker(s) of this mod (whoever that will be) should definitely have a look .
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varning View Post
    Eh, it's debateable whether a state confined to Brazil and disliked by the ruling world powers would still be considered Portugal, especially 20 years after the fact. I did give Brazil cores on Portugal, and was planning an event should they retake the region to TAG-switch back to Portugal. In Vicky 2 this would be int he decisions.
    Hence the United Kingdom (the consensual approach that was adopted once the royal family fled to Brazil). Anyway, even if the Braganzas decided to drop their claims over Portugal, the flag and heraldry of Brazil should still reflect the Portuguese royal arms, instead of the Imperial Brazillian flag (which was an artificial construct generated by independence and the need to non-radically the ties to the former Portuguese monarchy).

    As for estremadura, yes it wass ruled by France at the beginning, but the region was just too volatile and problematic for Napoleon to hold onto. In my timeline, he gave it to the Spanish Bourbons in exchange for taking some of his war debt. And yes, Northern Lusitania and Algarve were in the old mod and would have been ruled by those people, but would be essentially in Spain's sphere.
    Seems sensible, I have checked and Northern Lusitania was supposed to be ruled by the monarch of Etruria (Charles of Parma). Anyway to model some kind of personal union?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatia1871
    I really don't think having such an elaborate backstory and so many changes would be the best way to do this - not only would the setting end up being a bit convoluted, but it goes against the way Vicky tends to be played (where the initial 20-30 years are primarily devoted to peaceful buildup and expansion), and the contextual way the event system in new Paradox games works (which have a much less strong narrative thrust than in Vicky1 or HOI2). Plus if the setting is too unfamiliar and convoluted, things just become a bit weird and not much fun to play.
    Eh, I think the mod should be different enough from vanilla or else it's not worth making. If it's just the regular Vicky set up with France a bit stronger and England a bit weaker, why do it all? I'm not sure what you mean by going against the way Vicky is to be played. The only nation that would start in a war was UK/England, similar to how VIP represents Carlist and regular Spain in their mod. Everyone else would have that time to set up. However, it is important to remember that without the Congress of Vienna, the world will probably be more unstable. I personally would not insert events to push the narrative a certain way, that is just one possible set-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatia1871
    I think the best way of doing things would just be to come up with a reasonable POD where the Napoleonic Wars end in something of a stalemate, and by the 1830s you have Britain, France and Russia as roughly equal great/world powers/weak hegemons, Germany and Italy as potentially unstable zones ready to explode around the equivalent of 1848, and maybe places like Egypt and the Marathas stronger than in vanilla for people who want to take up the Unciv -> Civ route.
    With the exception of UK being a strong power, that's exactly what my setup entailed. The powers in Germany were Bavaria, Westphalia, and Saxony. Egypt could civ with French help and the Marathas were the second-most populous country in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatia1871
    This way, you get a quite different game experience with relatively minor changes, overcome one of the big built-in issues with the regular game / real 19th century (early British total dominance), allow a lot more in the way of equal colonial and economic competition to take place in the first few decades of play, and could just leave things to run themselves from the setup with the regular event system but with hopefully quite different results each time.
    Again, I think the mod needs to be different enough from vanilla to be worth making in the first place. Check out the thread posted in the OP, it goes over a lot of possible changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor
    I vote for Travalgar as the divergence point!
    My only issue with Trafalgar as the divergence point is that a lot of the fun Napoleonic states haven't even been created yet. However there is something suggested by a poster in the old thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pav-Z
    The biggest error was that a Trafalgar Villanueva leading the fleet, and he was convinced that it would lose, and gave a series of orders wrong, maybe if Antonio de Escaño had been in command, the casualties would have been quite Franco Españolas more unobtrusive, and provide for the possibility of a reconstruction of the navy

    After the victory of continental France, the new fleet from European shipyards French Russian and Spanish, was likely to finish the already worn United Kingdom

    The fact that United Kingdom there fallen out leaving the way for Spain to take over the Naval Supremacy, as it has the naval tradition is the rule that has over 1810 yards and fairing centers around the world (mostly in its American colonies), and unlike France, the naval command had not experienced any purge and thus are more efficient and better prepared.
    So with someone else leading the fleet at Trafalgar, the French and Spanish still lose but not as badly. The French and Spanish, without the Peninsular ulcer, are able to rebuild a fleet to challenge the British in a few years time.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserChicken View Post
    Hence the United Kingdom (the consensual approach that was adopted once the royal family fled to Brazil). Anyway, even if the Braganzas decided to drop their claims over Portugal, the flag and heraldry of Brazil should still reflect the Portuguese royal arms, instead of the Imperial Brazillian flag (which was an artificial construct generated by independence and the need to non-radically the ties to the former Portuguese monarchy).
    You're right, I just hadn't gotten around to changing the flag of Brazil in the old mod. Someone (I think a Portuguese poster) in the old thread suggested that the king being in Brazil would have made more unrest and revolution, not less. What are your thoughts on that? Would the Portuguese nobility have been able to retain control in Brazil?

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserChicken View Post
    Seems sensible, I have checked and Northern Lusitania was supposed to be ruled by the monarch of Etruria (Charles of Parma). Anyway to model some kind of personal union?
    Napoleon promised Northern Lusitania to the Parma-Bourbons as a way of making up for dissolving Etruria, which he did in 1807. However, he put his sister in control of the area as Grand Duchess of Tuscany. In the timeline of my mod, he recreated the kingdom after the wars with his sister in control, and the Parma-Bourbons limited to Northern Lusitania.

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