[Brainstorm #9] Crime & Punishment

[Emperor Leo]

One subject that seemed to come up a lot on these forums in the past, is the way EU Rome handles crime and punishment. So, I thought I'd take a look at that today!

A Personal Casus Belli

It's been mentioned many times before, but this game needs a casus belli system for characters. As it is at the moment, characters can literally get away with murder. Someone could attempt to murder my children, yet I'm still penalised with Tyranny if I arrest and execute them. There needs to be a system that flags offending characters up as criminals if they commit a crime such as murder, attempted murder, money laundering, war crimes, etc.

The "criminal" title will only stay with the offending character for 12 months, to avoid exploitation of the feature.

By the way, I have no idea what a personal casus belli would be called. I'm sure someone with an interest in Latin will be able to provide a name. Corpus delicti, maybe? I don't know.

Anyway, this would then open up a new personal intrigue "mission"...

Fabricate Allegations

You, as the ruler, are essentially attempting to frame another character for a crime or make a false allegation that a character is disloyal to the ruler or state. If you're successful, the following will happen;

• Target is flagged as a criminal and is open to lawful punishment.
• Chance that the target will become a Rival of the ruler.
• Target Family Prestige -100 (The "criminal" has brought shame upon his family name).
• Target Prominence -25% (The "criminal" is seen in a poor light by his peers).

Obviously, if you fail, you will be exposed as the crafty snake that you are! This would mean;

• Target will become your Rival (The victim holds a grudge against you for your underhand actions).
• Target Loyalty -25% (The victim withdraws all support for you).
• Tyranny +2.0 (The people learn of your crafty actions).
• If the target is a prominent member of the nobility, they may also attempt a Civil War to escape your corruption.

Also, while we're looking at the darker side of EU Rome, here's another personal intrigue mission I'd like to see:

Intimidate

This is one for the ruthlessly ambitious or just plain cruel. Your character uses his wealth and power to "shake down" and intimidate certain political opponents. If your thugs do their job properly, one of four things will happen:

• Your Personal Wealth +100-500g(Random amount) (The victim pays you through extortion). [45% Chance]
• Target Loyalty +25 (The victim pledges his support to you through fear). [35% Chance]
• Target gains the Wounded trait (Your thugs get carried away and brutally beat your target). [5% Chance]
• Target is "Exiled" (The target flees the country through fear of political persecution and will join a rival country or a rebel faction if a Civil War is happening). [15% Chance]

This won't be an event, the calculations would occur "behind the scenes".

Should the Intimidation fail, however, there will be consequences:

• Target will become your Rival (The victim holds a grudge against you for your bullying tactics).
• Target Loyalty -25% (The victim withdraws all support for you).
• Tyranny +2.0 (Your brutal tactics become known to the people and fear spreads).
• If the target is a prominent member of the nobility, they may also attempt a Civil War to escape your violent regime.

Bribery

You can see mine and other's thoughts on Bribes, here.

Thoughts? I'll add more at a later time if I think of anything.

[Nyrael]

As always, good ideas Leo
I especially want the Personal CB. Why do I have penalties for punishing a criminal?

[Emperor Leo]

As always, good ideas Leo

Thank you!

I especially want the Personal CB. Why do I have penalties for punishing a criminal?

Exactly! Why would everyone become disloyal and complain if I execute a dangerous, foreign general that I've captured?

[Memento Mori]

Good idea, but what would be the punishment?

Perhaps it would be more realistic if, after one commits a crime against the state or the ruller's familly, there would be a screen telling about the crime and give two options: forgive or hold a trail. Picking the first one would boost the character's loyality and lower the ruler's prestige, while the second would depend on the country

- in republics and other countries that tend to have fair trails, it could result in either finding him innocent, confiscating part of his wealth (for example 1% of the confiscated wealth goes to the treasury, 10% to the ruller's pocket and 89% is lost), exile oe execution.
- In despotic monarchies you get to decide
- In tribes there is only the "forgive" and "execute" option

Also if the crime would be against a courtier or governer, he would decide weather to forgive or start the trail (if he decides to forgive, he could gain some "mercyful" trait or something simmilar, while if he does not, and the suspect survives the trail, he just made a new rival).

It might seem a bit complicated, but in reality it would be simple to the player

1. Character a commits an offence against the state or ruller: you get an event with choices

2a. - In republics: you forgive or hold a trail. If you choose trail, one of the following options might happen:
- Character is found innocent: no effect
- Verdict: confiscate property: a random number (25% - 75%) of personal wealth is deducted, 10% of it goes to the king's pocket and 1% to the state coffers
- Verdict: exile
- Verdict: death
The % of happening could differ between offences

2b. - In autocratic monarchies: same thing, but you decide the verdict, and forgiving is placed instead of innocence

2c. In tribes: Only death or forgivness

3. In republics, if there is a crime against somebody else then the state or ruller, the event is triggered for the offended npc. Traits such as forgiving could alter the %.


Also, it would be cool, if a trail against a powerfull person could spark a civil war

[Emperor Leo]

Good idea, but what would be the punishment?

Perhaps it would be more realistic if, after one commits a crime against the state or the ruller's familly, there would be a screen telling about the crime and give two options: forgive or hold a trail. Picking the first one would boost the character's loyality and lower the ruler's prestige, while the second would depend on the country

- in republics and other countries that tend to have fair trails, it could result in either finding him innocent, confiscating part of his wealth (for example 1% of the confiscated wealth goes to the treasury, 10% to the ruller's pocket and 89% is lost), exile oe execution.
- In despotic monarchies you get to decide
- In tribes there is only the "forgive" and "execute" option

Also if the crime would be against a courtier or governer, he would decide weather to forgive or start the trail (if he decides to forgive, he could gain some "mercyful" trait or something simmilar, while if he does not, and the suspect survives the trail, he just made a new rival).

It might seem a bit complicated, but in reality it would be simple to the player

1. Character a commits an offence against the state or ruller: you get an event with choices

2a. - In republics: you forgive or hold a trail. If you choose trail, one of the following options might happen:
- Character is found innocent: no effect
- Verdict: confiscate property: a random number (25% - 75%) of personal wealth is deducted, 10% of it goes to the king's pocket and 1% to the state coffers
- Verdict: exile
- Verdict: death
The % of happening could differ between offences

2b. - In autocratic monarchies: same thing, but you decide the verdict, and forgiving is placed instead of innocence

2c. In tribes: Only death or forgivness

3. In republics, if there is a crime against somebody else then the state or ruller, the event is triggered for the offended npc. Traits such as forgiving could alter the %.


Also, it would be cool, if a trail against a powerfull person could spark a civil war

Love it! Genuinely like all of those ideas! Also, if you're a Monarchy, perhaps there could be events where the victim of the crime takes his issues to the King (you) to resolve the situation.

[Memento Mori]

Love it! Genuinely like all of those ideas! Also, if you're a Monarchy, perhaps there could be events where the victim of the crime takes his issues to the King (you) to resolve the situation.

Great idea! And for example the more severe the punishment is, the more loyalty will be gained by the actor, or plaintiff (who might actually lose loyality if you find the criminal innocent ) - and the rei or the suspect will get a loyality boost if found innocent an loyality drop is his property is taken. Obviously after death or exile this isn't applied

Apart from that, there could be a small chance for the victim to become your friend if his plea for justice is approved by the monarch - and the suspect might become your rival if he is stripped off his belongings. Just imagine how great roleplaying would be if a person harms some governor, after the trial gets his $ taken away, becomes the king's rival, tries to assasinate the king later on and finally gets to see the Tarpeian Rock from below

[Salaminizer]

I think the ideas listed here and in Wave's thread about tyranny ideas would be great additions, and new forms of Bribery would be good too.

right now, tyranny is an annoyance that is usually increased by your lack of options to resolve a conflict other than by imprisoning, TRYING to assassinate someone and TRYING to smear their reputation, or you can go the bribery way, which is also really "cheap".