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And it's not like you have to look that far! Kebzero on these here EU3 forums managed to conquer the whole world as the Ming, and then convert the whole world to one religion AND one culture! And I wonder how many of you even know who I'm talking about.
Chinesse cheese :p

I'm a sucker for EU WC and extreme hardcore gameplay since the old glorious days of Peter Ebbesen, so I tend to lurk in most of these AARs, like pagan attempts, religious or culture conversions and the like ;)
Well, mostly EU WC, for other games, I'm not always looking for WC but for gameplay, stories and the like as well.

And about facing the blob un-westernized, I have my doubts. On one hand, he destroyed Portugal with Iroquois, but on the other hand, the situation helped him. Here, he would face France at full strength. While a few victorious wars are possible, considering the Horde current strategic depth, I fear he'd mostly lose wars and provinces - notably because he would, at times, face them while himself is weakened by TSC and other foreign invasions.
 
I would actually think that he might stand a chance, he did do the first Vicky2 WC....
That or he's at least mediocre at Photoshop.
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It might be difficult for Prawnstar to atttack France, since he has no border with them. If he had, the inbalance in land tech and French kings who usually have high military values would cost him dearly. Add in the fact that ther Horde is tribal, giving 50% tech costs penalty and increased revolt risk and a war has to be fought bearing in mind extra revolts reducing the number of troops available for the frontline. The Horde has no fleet. That may change going forward, but the Horde is very much land oriented and I wouldn't expect to see a fleet until after the Americas start receiving Horde colonists.

Frankly, Vesimir, I don't regard a WC bythe Ming as a particularly impressive achievement. Nor converting to one religion. Cultural assimilation has always struck me as a matter of luck, not skill.

Prawnstar's not given any indication that this is a WC.
 
Cultural assimilation has always struck me as a matter of luck, not skill.
Luck? Luck is quite limited when you use a flood of pagan zealot revolters to turn pagan every province not of your religion, and then convert them back. That's rather dedication, considering the time required to do it :)
 
Chief Ragusa, did you actually read Chinese Cheese? If you did, you would realize kebzero's achievements. He not only conquered every province, but he also converted every province to pagan first (through a commercial deal with Pagan Zealot Exports LLC), then converted them to his state religion and thus state culture. Also, kebzero's There Must Be Order Teutonic Order/Prussia AAR partly inspired prawnstar's Yes We Can! WC without crossing the bad boy threshold.

These two are my favorite AAR authors for EU3.
 
Chief Ragusa, did you actually read Chinese Cheese? If you did, you would realize kebzero's achievements. He not only conquered every province, but he also converted every province to pagan first (through a commercial deal with Pagan Zealot Exports LLC), then converted them to his state religion and thus state culture. Also, kebzero's There Must Be Order Teutonic Order/Prussia AAR partly inspired prawnstar's Yes We Can! WC without crossing the bad boy threshold.

These two are my favorite AAR authors for EU3.
Exactly my thoughts.
(Only: I think it was Cosmopoli-taint to inspire Yes We Can!)

PrawnStar and kebzero have two almost opposite ways to approach problems, and for this reason they usually have different objectives, but both are highly skilled and very dedicated. And I think there are othes too, which are just less known.
 
From what he said, it's something released 17 or 18th Sept. and Civ5 seems to be released on 21st...

18th of spetember.

That's the American release, though, it will be another two months, I think, till the european one.

And also,

Kudos for westernising, I normally never get that far.
 
Nicely done getting GH westernized! Having decent tech should definitely be easier now. A brave move to do it during the war, though that seems like the way to go - especially as you can probably get out of that war any time if something else goes wrong.

Oh and as far as the debate here goes, I really don't want to get into it any more than saying that some great players have been mentioned and one of the reasons why I like PrawnStar's AARs so much is the roleplaying part - playing by the house rules and sticking to the role. The scenarios may be gamey but the way he survives and thrives in them typically isn't.
 
I remember WC AAR's back in the day when EU didn't have a number. Well, I don't rightly remember cause things are getting a might hazy these days but we had 'em. Then these dang kids come along with their loud music and fancy graphics.
 
I remember WC AAR's back in the day when EU didn't have a number. Well, I don't rightly remember cause things are getting a might hazy these days but we had 'em. Then these dang kids come along with their loud music and fancy graphics.

Loud music?

What are you talking about?;)

The only time I get loud music is when I play YouTube in the background of EU3.
 
I remember WC AAR's back in the day when EU didn't have a number. Well, I don't rightly remember cause things are getting a might hazy these days but we had 'em. Then these dang kids come along with their loud music and fancy graphics.

:rofl:
These newfangled "games" with expansions and numbers..Get off Davout's lawn!
 

FEEDBACK

Dewirix - I'm not hoping to match the Western Europeans for tech I just don't want to be too far behind. Everyome else is in trouble if I can ever get a working economy to support a big army.

sprites - Kiev is the goal - 15 regiment rebel stacks :D

Chief Ragusa - Thanks for helping out there with Croatia ;) The Ottomans are sitting in Italy looking nervously north - I sent my one galley to investigate. Poland is having a good phase at the moment and Hungary is a shell of what it once was. Lithuania I want three provinces including 50 point Kiev.

How did Brits get hold of drink in a muslim nation?
Brits on holiday always get drunk as probably quite a few Southern Europeans on this board can attest :(

Noirin - The problem with not westernising is that eventually you get to a point where your armies are so weak relative to late game units you can't even get 10:1 overruns because you run out of morale first :( I could play that but it wouldn't be much fun. Try it though and report back!

Keinwyn - Distance to France actually 5 provinces at this point :eek:

GaiusC - I agree about Westernisation, not doing it might work if I wasn't in Europe but given the units my neighbours will end the game with...

Boris ze Spider - absolutely, efficiency is highly prized in the Horde :rolleyes:

dinofs - Let's hope so!

blsteen - yeah, you've got that right for sure!

anweRU - Beating France will take some doing.

Enewald - They are too big to vassalise and anyway I want the land!

Johan11 - Is it one of those 'Dance like Britney' things for the Wii?

That's the slippery slope to perdition, if you start sending merchants we'll soon find the khan in the garden centre every Sunday... :rofl:
As long as the Khan doesn't have to buy his own gravel :mad:

Noirin - Look back at the neighbour bonus before the first westernisation - I wasn't even competitive in my own tech group. Trade I'll need the income in time and naval? well winning the Battle of the Atlantic will be hard if I'm pushing galleys against three deckers...

GaiusC - Agreed the 50% tribal tech penalty is a real handicap.

So am I the only one who thinks PrawnStar could have expanded and defeated France at least once without westernizing and investing only in Land?
Probably;)




Re Big Debate about good players etc...

Rather than my usual habit of responding to each post separately I'll just say this. I agree very much with Vesimir's first post. I am pretty good at this game but I have spent a lot of time playing. There are a lot of very good players out there writing AARs. There are definitely better players than me, naggy beat France as Provence, starfury did a Pagan WC and Rastar demolished Ming as Malacca with great style as well as kebzero's antics. My AARs get a lot of attention because of the Iroquois game that's all. There's nothing in any of my AAR games that another player couldn't do if they follow the same sort of approach as me. Take it slow and think about things; the style that aldriq in his new AAR has just summarised as:

PrawnStar's First Law - if in doubt, pause.

I'm not offended by anything anyone has said - RL tends to throw much worse at you :)



Malurous - The decision to westernise during the war was easy once I'd seen the WE figures.As you say I can back out very easily if needed.

Davout - Whoa there oldtimer. Any time soon you'll have to stop playing those old 78s and listen to singers who don't even wear suits to perform in ;)

Johan11 - Music on YouTube! what is wrong with young people? Whatever happened to good old fashioned illegal downloads :rofl:

blsteen - The Khan fully supports the preservation of Davout's lawn*

*Unless gravel is involved.


 

Chapter Forty​

Immediately before the final westernisation to Latin tech my technology position is:


Government 10 : 1496 / 17523 : Neighbour bonus 5.20

Production 10 : 2150 / 11682 : Neighbour bonus 31.60

Trade 8 : 3023 / 11554 : Neighbour bonus 35.60

Naval 8 : 4015 / 16136 : Neighbour bonus 38.00

Land 16 : 767 / 13207 : Neighbour bonus 9.60​

And five points of stability loss later…


Government 10 : 1496 / 15446 : Neighbour bonus 66.80

Production 10 : 2150 / 10297 : Neighbour bonus 100.00

Trade 8 : 3023 / 4537 : Neighbour bonus 100.00

Naval 8 : 4015 / 14244 : Neighbour bonus 100.00

Land 16 : 767 / 11642 : Neighbour bonus 44.00​

At +3 stab my monthly income is around 150 ducats so the neighbour bonuses are a huge boost to my tech speed.

Come the first of May map spread shows extensive American territories for the usual suspects, Castile, Great Britain and Portugal.

o51hfm.jpg


It’s July before the next revolt; Khivan nationalists in Kara Kum.

Persian patriots revolt in both Dash-i-Lut and Luristan as the summer ends.

Muscovite nationalists rise in Vyazma in October.

Early December and there are nationalist revolts in Kaffa (Greek) and Mus (Dulkadiri). The war against Lithuania has gone very well with most of their forts taken while their army rots outside the walls of Cherson.

Lithuania – January 1581

15nljqs.jpg


Despite holding all but one province (and that at 63% siege progress) I only have +36 war score – Bohemia is not interested in peace but that last garrison shouldn’t last too much longer.

Mid January and Castile embargos me – no idea what’s prompted that.

February brings two revolts in occupied Lithuania, Trakai and 15000 Ukrainians in Kiev! The next month sees much more normal behaviour with nationalistic uprisings in Ryazan and Kerman.

Battle of Cherson – March 1581

34nfpdv.jpg


By this stage the Lithuanian army had gathered into a single stack which winter sieged in a scorched province where it was heavily beaten. The fort at OstPreussen has only 37 defenders left for complete victory over Lithuania.

April sees the remains of that Lithuanian army destroyed and the last fortress fall for 100 war score. There’s a second uprising in Kaffa and muscovite rebels strike in Viatka.

Peace with Lithuania – May 1581

1zf07jr.jpg


It appears the populace are impressed so there’s no further revolt for over two months before Orthodox zealots rise in Smolensk. August brings Ukrainian nationalists in Poltava and Persian patriots in Dash-i-Lut. It’s the turn of Georgian nationalists in Alania the next month. October, its peasants in Kurgan and Shiite zealots in Fars. December sees a Siberian revolt in Tara and more Persian patriots in Khuzestan.

I reach -1 stability in January 1582

The next revolts are in February, peasants in Burtasia and Muscovite nationalists in Nijni Novgorod. July brings yet more Persian patriots, this time in Laristan. There’s a peasant revolt in Pensa late autumn.

A new Boundary dispute – February 1583

vzx88x.jpg


I’ve just gained a core on Sistan to add to the existing core on Baluchistan.

I get all the way to August 1583 before the next revolt; Ak K nationalists in Van.

Stability zero is reached in September.

The next month brings more nationalist uprisings in Mus and Kara Kum.

Iraq annexed – December 1583

2dwaznn.jpg


I make a move decentralised by diploannexing Iraq after several attempts – this helps with my revolt risk problems as I’m now less overcentralised. The move costs me some tax and production efficiency but the reduction in revolt risk will offset that to some extent.

Polotsk (nationalists) and Laristan (Shia zealots) take up arms at the news.

February 1584 and Ukrainian nationalists revolt in Kiev, 15000 of them.

March brings Muscovite nationalists in Beloozero.

There’s a peasant revolt in Koda in September.

Smolensk converts in November.

Khiva revolts in March 1585.

Ming has just beaten Deccan taking three provinces on the border – which is in NW Burma.

War with the Mamluks – April 1585

2d7y7ua.jpg


I’d warned the Mamluks so when they attacked Ethiopia I jumped in. I wasn’t the only one! This will have to be quick to get in and grab stuff and close out the war without the Ottomans getting anything.

May 1585 and I hit +1 stability.

June brings a Ukrainian revolt in Podolia.

Even as my field forces start to storm their way through the border forts Dagestan revolts in July (Ak K nationalists).

There’s wave of Persian cores in August; Gurgan, Kerman, Laristan, Dash-i-Lut and Khurasan. Leading to a month later…

24684xs.jpg


Nice.

January 1486 isn’t so good as I get the ‘Nobles demand old rights’ event and have to choose between a stab drop or a move decentralised. I take the stab drop as it’s easier to recover from.

February brings three revolts, in Beloozero, Fars and occupied Badiyat Ash Sham.

Cairo falls – February 1586

29wwzzm.jpg


War score is +21 and I’m letting the Ottomans do most of the fighting.

Peace with the Mamluks – April 1586

ac35mx.jpg


Time to get out while the going is good. Certainly I don’t really want to push any further down the Nile valley – attrition is hellish there. I don’t know if I’ll be able to hold on to Mecca but it’s worth trying. Note: as a Muslim conquering Mecca doesn’t get you any special bonus, it’s just a little bit of role play.

The Ottomans plunge straight back into war with a DOW on Bosnia drawing in Hungary and Poland. The Ottoman warning runs out in days, their army is in Italy (100,000+) and their war exhaustion is over 9…




Rebel Count = 857 (+36)
Rebels = 4,582,000 (+194,000)



----------​

 
Things are looking really good now, with few revolts, full Westernization, more cores abroad, Persian accepted culture (great for RR and income :) ), Lithuania crushed, Deccan in trouble with Ming, and probably Ottomans in trouble against Hungary+Poland.

A pity you don't have any navy, because with their army in Italy, it would be a great time to DOW them, block their troops far from Asia Minor, and backstab these sneaky guys :D

I'm not surprised with all these +100 neighbour bonus ;)
On the other hand, the situation in America... they've been busy there indeed - explaining the lack of Castille/England DOWs recently? - and have already cleaned up most of the pagans. :mad:
 
Huge neighbor bonuses! Those will definitely help you out in the long run.
 
The Croat vassals should have a fleet. Whether they'll have enough sense not to try to land armies in Italy is another matter. I smell a staright DoW on the Ottomans coming up. Vassal Nogai coming up -anyone keeping count?

The neighbour bomus' look to give Gov Tech 11 in around 15 years and lvl 18 land in about 40 and the next troop set and fort 3, if I recall correctly.. Persian accepted culture is a real boon. Finally makes Fars valuable.

Lithuania is broken now. Kiev will be a pain until it cores and converts.

The Mamluks are another state that appears to be ruled by lemmings. Jumping on a state guaranteed by both the Horde and the Ottomans raises dumb to a whole new level.

Another core on Deccan which does have Ming problems. Isn't that a shame?

With the Ottomans armies in Italy, Egypt and attacking Bosnia, which should annex it and then run into a Polish army ought to leave the rest of the Ottoman territory open to a scatter and siege approach. Moving fast to kckover the recruitment is necessary, because the armies will not be ferried back - Ottomans fight with locally raised troops.

The Ottoman cores are the most difficult of the three needed to gain 20 prestige. I hope the Deccan has a Hindu vassal you can DoW or attacks the minor you forced release and guaranteed. On the other hand, recovery from a -2 stab hit is 3 years and you're determined to get he most out of this Khan before his horse throws him off. You can fight the Swedes before taking land to connect them off the Lithuanians.

I'd look to annex the Haasa, but I am not sure what impact that will ahve on your BB and most of their proviinces aren't very good. You could even move the centralisation tab a couple of times more as you seem to have settled on +3 RR. I'd want the Timurids and their CoT annexed, too. I'm torn between going narrow-minded for help to colonists and missionaries or moving for greater quality. I'm narrowly on the side of narrow-mindedness.

Castille wants to provides a free DoW - you've got no need of such generousity. Are you auto-trading? You may be depriving Castille of a monopoly.

Now that westernization is completed, your number of troops ought to be rising. I do not know , if your Khan will survive long enough to get that 20 prestige, but I do feel confident that you'll give it your best shot.