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JASGripen said:
I would not put to much emphasise on the idea that SS-units had better equipment than regular army units. It is a notion repeated very much post war, so much that it has become a truth. Still I haven't seen anything supporting this. I have been to BAMA in Freiburg and checked the distribution of armour (Feldherrenhalle papers e.g. "RH10") and there is no special SS distribution.

I would still say that you can keep the stats for the SS units (due to dedication of the men), but skip out on the increase in fuel. This is also a balance issue, there is so much tech tied into these special units that it gamebalance wise can't afford any additional drawbacks.

And please take a look at my post above about Lt. Inf. I really do think that Jäger divisions is a far better example for this kind of units than the Green devils.
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the Waffen-SS units had better equipment and especially more equipment. they always received the best first. the equipment was sometimes specially build by the SS. SS Panzerdivisions were (nearly) the only units equipped with Tiger and Tiger II. From the Wehrmacht only the elite divisions "Großdeutschland" and "Brandenburg" had similar strength and equipment.
my grandfather was private in the GD division and he always said that they had up to the end always the best men and equipment available similar to the SS-units.
 
comsubpac said:
the Waffen-SS units had better equipment and especially more equipment. they always received the best first. the equipment was sometimes specially build by the SS. SS Panzerdivisions were (nearly) the only units equipped with Tiger and Tiger II. From the Wehrmacht only the elite divisions "Großdeutschland" and "Brandenburg" had similar strength and equipment.
my grandfather was private in the GD division and he always said that they had up to the end always the best men and equipment available similar to the SS-units.
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I agree with GD and some other Wermacht divisions being stronger in many respects than other divisions. But if you care to visit BAMA in Freiburg you get the numbers for Panzer distribution month by month how many planned, how many sent and how many delivered. Of course some SS-divisions could get something extra, but so could others. There is in addition to that, many SS-divisions were subpair, especially those with high numbers.
 
JASGripen said:
I agree with GD and some other Wermacht divisions being stronger in many respects than other divisions. But if you care to visit BAMA in Freiburg you get the numbers for Panzer distribution month by month how many planned, how many sent and how many delivered. Of course some SS-divisions could get something extra, but so could others. There is in addition to that, many SS-divisions were subpair, especially those with high numbers.
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yes, you are right not every SS-division deserves the elite status especially the ones formed in late war but divisions like LSSAH, Das Reich, Totenkopf were clearly better equipped then regular divisions and they were preferred when new equipment was distributed.
but in general many of the SS divisions were weaker then generally thought and sometimes only used for anti partisan duties.
the german industry could never keep up with the need for equipment so the SS founded own factories.
 
comsubpac said:
yes, you are right not every SS-division deserves the elite status especially the ones formed in late war but divisions like LSSAH, Das Reich, Totenkopf were clearly better equipped then regular divisions and they were preferred when new equipment was distributed.
but in general many of the SS divisions were weaker then generally thought and sometimes only used for anti partisan duties.
the german industry could never keep up with the need for equipment so the SS founded own factories.
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At the start of the war there were certain standards for the men entering SS, which were dropped later on. So there is some case for calling SS elite, and I can support them to a certain extent. But not when it comes to equipment, which in the end leads to that the SS should not consume more fuel. I care about this DLC and don’t want it to continue old myths about SS.

The SS got all their armour through the Heeres-Waffenamt. There were no special factories for SS when it came to this type of equipment. I can't say for less significant stuff (uniforms of course!), but that is not the scale of the game anyway. I got copies on the actual primary sources from BAMA which shows that for example SS Frundsberg got 13 Panthers in September 1944, Hermann Göring Div. 24, 8th Pz. Div 37; Pz. Brig. 109 25, etc. This is not just a singular statistic fluctuation it is nothing special with the distribution to SS.

I recommend this thread if my own witness of the source material isn't enough:Waffen-SS Elite Status Debate

Many of the discussants are rather informed and give clear evidence that there were no priority to SS when it came to material.



Some snippets
.....As far as my comment on Waffen SS having better equipment is concerned.... I mean't the period of 1944-4, when Himmler managed to prioritise newer equipment to the Waffen SS formations..........look at the arming of 12 SS during its formation compared to other Panzer formations being raised at that time.....Also the SS Panzer formations received the newer armoured vehicles in a greater priority and numbers durring the Bulge. Subsequently the re-arming and divergence of resources to the SS formations from Henrici's panzer formations........
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Well, lets see if this is correct what you claim with the allocation of Panzer V for the "Wacht am Rhein".
Heer-Panzer Divisionen had allocated 290 Panzer V
Divided by 6 divisions (2.Pz., 9.Pz., 11.Pz., 21.Pz., 16.Pz., Pz.Lehr) = 48,3 as an average per division.

Waffen-SS Panzer Divisionen were allocated 234 Panzer V
Divided by 5 divisions (LSSAH, Reich, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, HJ) = 46,8 as an average per division.

Pretty interesting where you see an preferred allocation??

We could go on with such number games. They will not back up your claims that Waffen-SS received more, better or newer equipment. The OKH, Heereswaffenamt and the other responsible authorities did not look on Waffen-SS or Heer... They looked on the operational factors which means availability for refreshment, planed operations, infrastructure to deliver at the location the division is.

\Christoph
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Let´s look at the Panzer IV(lg) allocation
214 allocated to the 6 Heer divisions is an average of 35,6
170 allocated to the 5 W-SS divisions is an average of 34

Speaks for itself.

\Christoph
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Ok if kingtiger thinks let us look at the Jagdpanther deliveries on the Western front then:

s.Pz.Jg.Abt.654 = 100
s.Pz.Jg.Abt.559 = 60
s.Pz.Jg.Abt.519 = 27
s.Pz.Jg.Abt.560 = 36
s.Pz.Jg.Abt.655 = 24
2./s.Pz.Abt.507 = 2
Pz.Abt.2106 = 5
I./Pz.Rgt.130 = 49

Makes 303 Jagdpanther for Heer units on the western front and 0 for Waffen-SS formations. Not really a convincing argument for Waffen-SS better equipment theory.

Lets look at the Easter front:

Pz.Jg.Abt.563 = 10
3./Pz.Jg.Abt.616 = 9
I./Pz.Rgt.29 = 14
SS-Pz.Jg.Abt.10 = 10
SS-Pz.Jg.Abt.2 = 10
SS-Pz.Jg.Abt.9 = 10
Pz.Abt."F-G" = 10
Pz.Jg.Abt.49 = 8
Pz.Jg.Abt.47 = 4

Makes 55 to Heer units; 30 to W-SS units.

\Christoph
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About equipment: Just an example because many people argue that the Waffen-SS had priority in Tigers. In 1943 some Waffen-SS Tigerkompanien entered the battlefield. By that time the Heer allready had several complete schwere Tiger Abteilungen, of which one had allready been lost (Afrika: 501). At the same time the Panther made it's debute in the Heer, not with the Waffen-SS. So why the myth that the Waffen-SS got everything first? It's total nonsense. Did anybody notice the number of Pz.I and Pz.II deployed by LSSAH at Kursk?
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What makes SS units elite is their fanatism for the party and the Reich, not superior equipment, also i think that they would give excelent partisan supressor due to their nature and organization, SS is a kind of miltary state police and the waffen SS should retain some of their SS cousin skills. Almost finish my SS infantry revision, im going to post it today and then tell me what you think.
 
Analysing vanilla Infantry (version 2.3c) vs SS Infantry:

Inf -- SS Inf
Streng: 30 30 =
D. Org.: 30 40 --> 32% increase in SS (however diferent tech afect vanilla inf. and SS. inf. i have not yet compare the 2 at full tech)

D. Morale: 30 40 --> 32% increase in SS (same tech issue)
Officers: 100 100 =
Cost IC.: 2.3 3.3 --> 43% increase in SS cost
Cost Man.: 3.3 4.3 --> 30% increase in SS cost
Build Time: 95 95 =
Speed: 4 4 =
Weight: 10 10 =
Supply: 0.67 1.33 --> 100% increase in SS
Fuel: 0 0 =
defensiveness: 5.33 5.67 --> 6% increase in SS
toughness: 3.00 3.33 --> 11% increase in SS
softness: 1.00 1.00 =
air_defence: 2.00 2.00 =
suppression: 1.00 1.00 =
soft_attack: 2.00 2.00 =
hard_attack: 0.67 0.67 =
air_attack: 0.33 0.67 =

So we have a 32% increase in Org. and Morale, 2.2% increase in fighting skills on the other side we have 36.5% increase
in prodution cost, and 100% increase in supply cost.
So we have a unit that is maybe 10% better and is near 60% more costly.

My idea in this unit is:

New SS Inf:

D. Org.: 40 = The SS "dedication" to the cause, and discipline could justify a higher org.

D. Morare: 40 = Morale should be the greater advantage of the Waffen SS, as they were a fanatical unit which whould fight to the death to defend the nazi ideology.

Officers: 100 = This value is ok no reason for the ss to use more officers than the wehrmacht

Cost IC.: 3.1 --> 30% more costly than inf. In teory SS units are better and should be better equiped (or consider it game balance), i think that is here that the SS should cost more because it reflect its inicial equipment cost (and for game balance)

Cost Man.: 3.6 --> 10% more manpower than inf. the extra manpower represent the need for more support personel. More than 10% i think its unbalanced and not justified in reality

Build Time: 105 --> 10% more build time to justify a longer training period
Speed: 4
Weight: 10
Supply: 0.8 --> 20% increase in SS, same as marines, dont see any reason for raising it more

Fuel: 0
defensiv.: 5.67 --> 6% increase equal to the mod unit
toughness: 3.33 --> 11% increase equal to the mod unit
The rest is the same as the mod

So this way the unit is 10% better and near 20% more costly, i think this is fair
Note that the game SS units represent the elite SS of early war, not the late rushed ones.
 
Just a thanks to Devildread for the mod. Together with Semper Fi it's greatly improved my enjoyment of HOI3.

I've just played my first game with Germany ever in HOI game to see some of the untis in action :)
 
Hey guys, here is the promised patch. :)
I hope it is in its definitive version but I'll wait a couple of weeks before sending it to Paradox. In the mean time I will ask you to beta test it and report me any bugs / balance issue. Thanks. :)




DOWNLOAD :
Common Weapons of WWII - Patch 1.1 beta (thanks to derkb to provide the server)

INSTALLATION :
Make a backup of your \mod\common_weapons_of_WWII\ folder (simply copy it and paste it in another location).
Extract the patch in your \mod\common_weapons_of_WWII\ folder and overwrite the files.

Don't apply the patch if you are not confident with computers, wait for the finale patch instead.



CHANGELOG :

################################
#### COMMON WEAPONS OF WWII ####
#### PATCH 1.1 CHANGELOG ####
################################
By DiDay for Paradox Interactive

- Compatible 2.03c

- Added unit upgrade feature for most of the new units
- Added names for SS divisions and deleted them from the regular units division names
- Added several division names for Germany
- Added several division names for Soviet Union
- Added several division names for United Kingdom
- Added several division names for USA

- Transport ship engine tech doesn't decrease speed anymore

- Tweaked the interface in order to have the production panels scrollable

- Balanced most of the units, the motorized / mechanized / armored units consume lot more fuel and supplies (based upon Semper Fi values)
- National Guards are more expensive but build faster now, they also have suppression value to 2
- National Guards is now about x2 cost than garrison but better at defense and with no need to spend leadership in research
- National Guards can upgrade to infantry now
- SS and guards have less moral and org (40-40) now
- Rebalanced SS and Guards stats
- NKVD now gives 20% relative attack bonus on all terrain
- All CAGs now have the same build time (500 days) and reduced cost
- Light Infantry has same defensiveness than infantry now
- Removed infantry from the Great Patriotic War Tech

- Added new units in the major OOBs

- AI will research the new units and tech but don't expect it to build units efficiently

 
Great news Devildread!

I love this one:
- Tweaked the interface in order to have the production panels scrollable


But you did not change the color of the counters?
 
I did change the color of the counters in order to have uniformity with vanilla one (except specials units like SS or Guards). :)
 
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