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  1. #21
    Absent Minded Orinsul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alerias View Post
    I like this. Alot.
    Even a militarily and economically invigorated Ottoman Empire has to deal with new ideas and ideals from the west, and that should probably be reflected in all of this
    IF the Ottomans become a vast and scary superpower, should not the west have to deal with new ideas and ideals from the east?
    With the world in awe of your resurgent empire surely it would be your trends that the world imitates and your country would be more or less free of the westernising influence as it would be overshadowed by you.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunch Khan View Post
    We've earned our player #1.

    Suggestions and b**ching is always welcome!!!

    As per references, any suggestion is appreciated and please keep the info flowing.

    My ancestors were uprooted from Dagestan during what they call as the "War of 93" (1293 in Rumi-Ottoman calendar / 1877-78). Ottoman Government granted them lands for settlement in Kars and Erzurum provinces but the clan eventually moved to Ohrid in Macedonia only to be kicked out once again in 1912 and the remaining half were deported from Vodina (modern day Edessa in Selanik/Thessaloníki) during the Greco-Turkish population exchange of 1924.

    I don't know how to access the numbers yet but I know from personal experience that a significant number of villages exist in Turkey today where Circassian is the main language.

    Out of two million deported Circassians who were forced to cross the Black Sea in miserable conditions, half of them perished at sea and at the refugee camps on the Ottoman shore due to hunger and diseases.

    The initial settlement areas were Black Sea ports of Batumi, Trabzon, Ordu, Adapazari, Sinop and Samsun but the Circassians ended up densely populating Istanbul (Uskudar), Adapazari (Sakarya), Izmit, Tekirdag and Bursa mainly.

    By the terms of the Berlin Agreement (1878) those Circassians who were initially settled in refugee camps on the Balkan shores of Black Sea (Burgas, Vidin, Varna) were resettled in other sparsely populated areas of Ottoman Empire such as Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Among these Jordan (Amman) has the highest number of Circassian refugees. Prior to Circassian arrival, Amman was a ghost town in ruins.

    Assimilation is an issue we have to wait the game release date to see how the mechanics work. Truth is, the Turkish Republic did an awesome job assimilating different muslim groups within the country, save the Kurds. But how would a multi-religious and multi-cultural Ottoman Empire fare with assimilation in long run is another story.
    I can see I won't be the one giving out any information regarding the Circassian Wars then, you seem to know QUITE a bit about it. We're not exactly allowed to discuss ethnic cleansing, but assimilation is neutral territory IMO. Most of the time it was a choice, as with immigrants to the Americas. Other types of assimilation, such as forced, we're not allowed to discuss as long as the mods keep it a banned subject, which is ridiculous, seeing as how it was an important piece of the Victorian era. In a resurging Ottoman Empire, I think that the attention would have shifted towards the western coast of Asia Minor. I don't have numbers, but Victoria indicated that western Asia Minor was somewhat densely populated and could have been ripe for industrial development. Although equally likely, if the Ottomans hold Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia, and a large chunk of Serbia, that Uber Thrace-Macedon-Serbia could have also been a large center of industrial development. It somewhat relates to industrialization in that assimilation tended to occur under industrialization from a need for a common tongue. Bulgaria was the heart of the Ottoman Economy at the time, so a heavily industrialized Bulgaria is likely if it is retained, and with that, POSSIBLY more conversions to Islam/Bulgarian Secularism. While the Ottomans may have been a mostly secular state, the Bulgarian Christians resented them. If the Jyzia(spelling?), the special tax on Christians is still in place, removing that could appease many Bulgarian Christians, among other groups.

  3. #23
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alerias View Post
    I like this. Alot.

    By 1836, the Ottoman Empire is in decline though, with nationalism and new fangled western ideals already at the gates, and having cost the Empire critical parts of the Balkans.

    So my point is, Ottomania should ideally covers two different angles. First, the historical path of decline. When you make a mod about a country you admire, its easy to want to fill it with great events that propel it back to its former glory. However, flavor events that capture the essence and consequences of imperial decline are very important in this context I believe.

    And then, without handing over any cookie free to the player, there can be another set of flavor events and decisions and stuff, that can kick in if the player a-historically manages to recover some, or much, of the Empire's glory... it shouldn't be easy, but it should be possible, with rewards probably allowing Istanbul to tighten its grip back on the Balkans, possibly re-annexing its vassals without having to wage war against them, for instance. After all, they all gained their semi-independence at first precisely because of the Ottomans' decline...

    Even a militarily and economically invigorated Ottoman Empire has to deal with new ideas and ideals from the west, and that should probably be reflected in all of this

    Good luck. Great project, and I love the modular option.
    Thank you for the good wishes and excellent suggestions. I'd love you to stick around and keep me in check so we do not overinflate the Ottos. We are on the same page here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orinsul View Post
    IF the Ottomans become a vast and scary superpower, should not the west have to deal with new ideas and ideals from the east?
    With the world in awe of your resurgent empire surely it would be your trends that the world imitates and your country would be more or less free of the westernising influence as it would be overshadowed by you.
    Makes perfect sense and we require event ideas for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMT0 View Post
    I can see I won't be the one giving out any information regarding the Circassian Wars then, you seem to know QUITE a bit about it.
    I know some... but not quite. Any info or reference is always welcome here. Please share whatever you can to add more depth to the game.

    While the Ottomans may have been a mostly secular state, the Bulgarian Christians resented them. If the Jyzia(spelling?), the special tax on Christians is still in place, removing that could appease many Bulgarian Christians, among other groups.
    Under Islamic law, jizya (Turkish: cizye) is a per capita tax levied on non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is/was to be levied on able bodied adult males of military age and affording power on a sliding scale and adjusted to the financial capacity of the taxpayer. In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and the Zakat tax as obligatory upon Muslim citizens.

    Ottomans abolished jizya on February 18th, 1856 and we are going to address this significant shift in policy. The reform firman allowed non-Muslims to become full citizens with equal rights, paving way for them to join the army, military schools and become appointed in government positions. By 20th Century, Ottoman Empire had a significant number of non-Muslims (mostly Armenian) governors and ministers in the cabinet including Interior Ministers, Foreign Ministers, Treasurers and Ministers of Finance.
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  4. #24
    Weren't many Sultans of partial Greek, Bulgarian, or Armenian descent? If I remember right, by the time of the 18th century, the Sultan's lineage was so diluted that they where anything but Turkish at that point. Maybe via event, whenever one of the Sultans ascends to the throne historically, if their parent on the mother's side was of any of the above, that population gets a slight drop on militancy? Not too much though, I don't think any Sultan went around boasting they where Armenian. I have a short, rough list of notable events that aren't war-related, and not in order:

    - End of the Janissaries(It could be an event with a choice to reform them, also)
    - End of Jyzia(Or not)
    - Discovery of Iraqi Oil
    - Ottoman reforms(Various)
    - End of absolute rule(Basically, no more Sultan is absolute ruler, not sure when that happened....)
    - The most loyal subjects of the empire(Armenians become notable bureaucrats, aristocrats, officers, etc.)
    - Fall from grace/Return of Ottoman Supremacy(Basically, rise and fall between Great Power and 2nd tier, in the case of the Ottomans, whenever they fall, war with Russia should be likely)
    - Various other discoveries of oil(Kuwait, Red Sea, Libya, Oman, Persian Gulf, take your pick, there's a bunch to chose from, assuming the Ottomans retain control of these locations)
    - (insert nationality in plural here) is seeking refuge from (insert nation here). (Circassians, Ossetians, Jews, Armenians, Arabs, Berbers, Azeris, Persians, Tartars, Muslims from Greece, Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria, etc. Any nationality that could have been or was expelled from their homes by outside powers migrating to the Ottoman Empire, these events should be more and more likely the stronger the Ottomans are)

    Short, rough, and missing many points

  5. #25
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    The list below is taken from the VIP political party file for Ottomans based on my post here.


    TUR;1100;Nizam-i Alem;1830;1876;reactionary;state_capitalism;protec tionism;moralism;limited_citizenship;jingoism;Turk ish;all;x
    TUR;1107;Firka-yi Muhammediye;1876;1909;reactionary;state_capitalism ;protectionism;moralism;residence;pro_military;all ;sunni;x
    TUR;1103;Kürt Teali Firkasi;1876;2000;reactionary;state_capitalism;pro tectionism;pluralism;limited_citizenship;pro_milit ary;Kurdish;all;third_party
    TUR;1116;Nifak-i Hümayun;1909;2000;reactionary;state_capitalism;pro tectionism;moralism;residence;pro_military;all;sun ni;x
    TUR;1101;Hükumet-i Hümayun;1830;1876;conservative;interventionism;pro tectionism;pluralism;limited_citizenship;pro_milit ary;Turkish;all;x
    TUR;1117;Firka-yi Tanzimat;2000;1876;conservative;laissez_faire;free _trade;pluralism;limited_citizenship;pro_military; Turkish;all;x
    TUR;1108;Hurriyet ve Itilaf Firkasi;1876;1924;conservative;interventionism;pro tectionism;moralism;limited_citizenship;pro_milita ry;all;all;x
    TUR;1109;Adem-i Merkeziyet Firkasi;1876;1920;conservative;interventionism;pro tectionism;moralism;limited_citizenship;pro_milita ry;Kwa;all;third_party
    TUR;1111;Terakkiperver Cumhuriyet Firkasi;1919;2000;conservative;laissez_faire;prote ctionism;moralism;limited_citizenship;anti_militar y;all;all;x
    TUR;1112;Jön Osmanlilar;1856;1876;liberal;laissez_faire;free_tr ade;pluralism;limited_citizenship;anti_military;al l;Sunni;x
    TUR;1105;Osmanli Ahrar Firkasi;1876;1909;liberal;laissez_faire;free_trade ;pluralism;full_citizenship;anti_military;all;all; x
    TUR;1102;Ittihad ve Terakki Firkasi;1889;1920;liberal;interventionism;protecti onism;pluralism;limited_citizenship;jingoism;all;a ll;x
    TUR;1110;Cumhuriyet Halk Firkasi;1920;2000;liberal;interventionism;protecti onism;secularized;full_citizenship;jingoism;Turkis h;all;x
    TUR;1104;Ihtilalci Avam Firkasi;2000;2000;communist;planned_economy;protec tionism;atheism;full_citizenship;pro_military;all; all;third_party
    TUR;1114;Ihtilalci Avam Firkasi;1905;2000;communist;planned_economy;protec tionism;atheism;full_citizenship;pro_military;all; all;third_party
    TUR;1106;Osmanli Köylü ve Amele Firkasi;1876;1904;socialist;state_capitalism;prote ctionism;secularized;full_citizenship;anti_militar y;all;all;third_party
    TUR;1115;Osmanli Köylü ve Amele Firkasi;1905;2000;socialist;interventionism;protec tionism;secularized;full_citizenship;anti_military ;all;all;third_party
    TUR;1113;Bozkurtlar;1905;2000;fascist;state_capita lism;protectionism;moralism;residence;jingoism;tur kish;all;third_party

    I want to spice this up a little more and add a few of the parties listed here:

    Armenakan 1885-
    Hunchakian (Social Democrat Hunchakian Party) 1887-
    Armenian Revolutionary Federation ARF (Hay Heghapokhagan Dashnaktsutiun, Dashnaktsutiun, Dashnak, or Tashnak) 1890-
    Committee of Union and Progress CUP 1906-1919
    Liberal Union LU
    Ottoman Democratic Party
    People's Federative Party (Bulgarian Section) (1909-1910)
    Bulgarian Constitutional Clubs (1908-1909)
    Peoples Party (Ahali Fırkası)
    Ottoman Committee of Alliance (Heyeti Muteffukai Osmaniye)
    Party of Freedom and Accord (Hürriyet ve İtilâf Fırkası)
    Ottoman Liberal People's Party / Freedom Party 1918-1920; 1930-1930
    Ottoman Socialist Party (Osmanlı Sosyalist Fırkası) 1910-1913
    Socialist party of Workers and Peasants of Turkey 1919-?
    League of private Initiative and Decentralization



    By 1912, the main political party in the Empire was Ittihat ve Terakki (CUP) which by that time had transformed from a liberal revolutionary party into a totalitarian nationalist/jingoist party. Their main opponent was the Ahrar Firkasi (Liberal Party) with the Armenian Revolutionary Party coming third. Surprisingly, we even see Socialist representatives from Bulgaria and Western Anatolia where industrialism was spreading faster.

    We will work more on these as soon as the game is released and we check on the mechanics. I just wanted to lay the material that we will be working with on the table.
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  6. #26
    What is your plans about Balkan Wars...
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  7. #27
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    Ottoman Leader Portraits I

    We are going to attempt to incorporate these leader portraits, courtesy to Vicky portraits and many additional ones by Semper Victor and Prinz Wilhelm.


    Hüseyin Avni Pasha (1819-76)

    (Service 1852-76)
    He participated in the Crimean War and won the Catana Battle against superior Russian forces. Became Marshall in 1863 and was given the command of the First Army. Supressed the Cretan Revolt in 1867 and became the Governor of Crete. CiC in 1869 and Prime Minister in 1874. He was among the coup members who dethroned Abdulaziz. He was assassinated by Abdulaziz' brother-in-law in 1876.


    Mehmet Ali Pasha (1827-78)


    Süleyman Pasha (1788-1860)

    (He was born a Frenchman and his Christian name was Joseph Anthelme Sève)

    Omer Pasha (1806-71)

    (This chap was a Croat by origin, and his birth name was Mihailo Latas)

    Osman Nuri Pasha (1832-1900)

    (Also known as Gazi "Victorious" Osman Pasha, he directed the remarkable defense of Plevna aggainst the Russians in 1877)

    Süleyman Hüsni Pasha (1840-92)


    Admiral Hassan Pasha (1832-1903)

    (Service 1867-93)

    Abdülkerim Nadir Pasha (1807-83)

    (Service 1840-77, Background: war_college, Personality: active)
    Abdülkerim Nadir Pasha was among the first Ottoman Turks sent to Europe to study western warfare. He continued to vienna military academy between 1835-40. Upon his return, he was made a general officer with the title of pasha at the age of 33, for there was a dearth of talented trained officers at the time in the Ottoman empire. He served with distincition in every campaign until the War of Bulgaria (russo-turkish war of 1877), he became something like "Sultan's Fireman", but in that last war, he inexplicably allowed the russians to cross the Danube without any hindrance and was immediately dismissed; he died in disgrace. During his career he held the rank of "Serdar-ı Ekrem" or C-in-C of the Ottoman Army more than once and was the overall commander of all troops stationed in Balkans in the 1877 war

    Abdi Pasha (circa. 1810-1880)

    (Service 1840-80, Background: old_school, Personality: merciless)
    Abdi Pasha was of Circassian origin and was bought as a slave when he was a kid by the Ottoman grand vizier Husrev Pasha. He was among the last graduates of Enderun palace school, which produced janissary officers and statesmen since 15th century, yet he was clever enough to choose the winning side when the janissaries were abolished in 1826 and became a staunch advocate of reform; this earned him a rank of general in the new army and close links with the Palace. His biggest service was to link circassian resistance of imam shamil with the Ottoman war effort during the Crimean war. When the Russians expelled hundreds thousands of Circassians from their homeland in 1864, he played a big part in organising their settlement into Ottoman territories. He was also made the overall commander of the (in)famous bashibozouk circassian irregular troops when they were formed and commanded them during the 1877 war. When he died in 1880 he was still a member of Sultan Abdulhamid's military council.

    Ahmet Muhtar Pasha (1838-1919)

    (Service 1865-80, Background: rising_star, Personality: able)
    Ahmed Muhtar Pasha was born in the Anatolian city of Bursa and enjoyed a swift and successful career in the army due to his obvious military skills. By 1873 he had alredy reached the rank of "mushir" (field marshal). Due to his remarkable performance in eastern Anatolia during the 1877 war against Russia, he received the title of "Ghazi" (victorious). In 1912 he became for a few months Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire.

    Edhem Pasha (1844-1909)

    (Service 1894-1909, Background: drillmaster, Personality: heroic)

    Abdullah Pasha (1846-1937)

    (Service 1904-1913, Background: diplomat, Personality: strange)

    Ömer Vehbi Pasha (?-1908)

    (Service 1898-1908, Background: generals_aide, Personality: resourceful)

    Sükrü Pasha (1857-1916)

    (Service 1905-13, Background: artillerist, Personality: heroic)
    The First Balkan War was an unparalleled disaster for the Ottomans, whose armies were wipped out from their Balkan territories in just two months by the combined armies of the Balkan League. One of the few bright moments of the Ottoman army in these bleak time was the stalwart defense of the fortified city of Edirne (Adrianople) under the command of Sükrü Pasha. After being finally compelled to surrender, Sükrü Pasha received the personal congratulations of King Ferdinand I of Bulgaria for his gallant defense of the fortress.

    Nazim Pasha (1858-1913)

    (Service 1905-13, Background: school_of_offense, Personality: lackluster)
    Nazim Pasha is the other side of the coin in respect to Sükrü Pasha: he was CiC of the Ottoman Army in the 1912, and it was his to a great extreme due to him that the Ottomans suffered such a humiliating defeat. He had been educated at the "École superiéure de guerre" in Paris, and he was thus imbued of the French doctrine of the offensive "à l'outrance" that would nearly led the French Army to disaster in August 1914.

    Ali Riza Pasha (1860-1932)

    (Service 1901-13, Background: cursed_luck, Personality: polite)
    In 1912, this guy commanded the Ottoman army in eastern Thrace. As such, he suffered the full impact of the Bulgarian offensive in October of that year. His forces were badly defeated at Kirk Kilisse and Lule Burgaz, and the mauled remnants of his army either took refuge at the fortress of Edirne or fled to Istanbul.


    Zeki Pasha (1862-1943)

    (Service 1905-14, Background: cavalry_school, Personality: cautious)
    Another of the Ottoman generals of the Balkan wars, in October 1912 Zeki pasha was the commander of the Vardar Army, charged with the defense of Macedonia against the Serbs. When war broke out, the Ottoman mobilization was only half-way, but following the plans of the CiC, Zeki Pasha took the offensive and attacked the invading Serbian army at Kumanovo. Although he achieved a tactical surprise against the Serbs, he was outnumbered 2:1 and was forced to retreat. At Kumanovo the Vardar army suffered heavy loses, including most of its artillery, and would later met ultimate defeat at the battle of Bitola three weeks later, wich put an end to 500 years of Ottoman presence in Macedonia.


    Esat Pasha (1862-1952)

    (Service 1911-20, Background: generals_aide, Personality: soldierly)
    Commander of the 3rd Corps of the Ottoman Army at Gallipoli.


    Esat Pasha Toptani (1863-1920)

    (Service 1908-13, Background: politician, Personality: perverse)
    A controversial character, this Albanese genarsl is remembered for having surrendered Salonika to the advancing Greek Army in 1912 without firing a single shot, against the opposition of his own men, who wanted to fight and defend the city. He would later become one of the first political leaders of the newly created state of Albania, until his assassination in 1920.


    Mahmud Muhtar Pasha (?-1935)

    (Service 1905-13, Background: war_college, Personality: balanced)
    Another of the Ottoman commanders of the forces in eastern Thrace in 1912, his troops were almost wiped out during the initial Bulgarian onslaught, he retreated with the remains of his army to the fortified defensive line of Çatalca, located only 40 km from the capital of the Empire, Istanbul. There, in desperate circumstances his men were finally able to stop the Bulgarian army. He was the son of the famous "mushir" (field marshal) Ahmet Muhtar Pasha, and apart from his military career he held many political and diplomatic posts during his lifetime.
    Last edited by Tunch Khan; 16-07-2010 at 01:19.
    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
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    Who is this Tunch Khan? I thought Djem de Sayd was the only Ottoman Pretender the Christians had their hands on? ~ aylo1
    To be honest, this thread might as well be closed now. We've seen Tunch Khan - I can't see that there's anywhere else to go from here. ~ Austen
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  8. #28
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    Ottoman Leader Portraits II

    As the Ottoman army was completely reorganized and rebuilt from scratch after the defeats of the decade of 1820 against Greeks and Russians, the Ottomans just recruited experienced officers from all over Europe to lead their new European-style Army and Navy. In some cases, these guys were political exiles, in other they were soldiers of fortune and finally in the case of some British officers like William Fenwick Williams and Baldwin Wake Walker, they were sent by the British government to help reorganize the Ottoman armed forces. So here they are:

    Wojciech Chrzanowski (1793-1861)

    (Service 1839-48, Background: cartographer, Personality: romantic)
    This chap was a typical character of the Romantic Era. Born in a wealthy aristocratic family, he was one of the main military leaders of the polish November uprising in 1830 against Russia. After the uprising was crushed he fled to the Ottoman Empire along with many other Poles, and served in the Ottoman army until 1848. In that year, he joined Piedmont's army in Italy to fight against the Austrians. He rose to command the whole army, but he lost the battle of Novara in 1849 against marshal Radetzky's army, and after that he retired from active service and set up residence in Paris until his death.

    Williams Bey (1800-83)

    (Service 1846-56, Background: artillerist, Personality: steadfast)
    Sir William Fenwick Williams, born in Nova Scotia (Canada) was one of the officers sent by the British government to help with the reorganization of Ottoman armed forces. In 1855 during the Crimean War against Russia he was charged with the command of Kars fortress, which he defended heroically for 9 months against the Russian Caucasus army led by general Muraviev-Karsky. He was forced to surrender only by lack of supplies, and was later rewarded with the title of "Baron of Kars" by the Queen. After the war, Williams rose to become Commander in Chief of all British forces in North America during the American Civil War and finally governor of Nova Scotia.

    Admiral Hobart Pasha (1799-1877)

    Augustus Charles Hobart-Hampden was the third son of the Earl of Buckinghamshire. He served in the Royal Navy form 1835 until his voluntary retirement in 1862. Then, for his love of adventure (as he himself acknowleged in his memories) he entered the service of the Confederate Navy, took the command of a blockade runner and evaded the Union blockade eighteen times. After the defeat of the Confederation he was again without employment, so in 1867 he entered Ottoman service. He was the commander in chief of the Ottoman navy during the 1877 war with Russia, and for his performance in that war he was awarded with the rank of "mushir" in 1881 (he was the first Christian to hold that rank, the highest one in the Ottoman military)

    Helmuth Karl Bernhard von Moltke (1800-91)

    (Service 1836-40, Background: debutante, Personality: calm)
    One of the less known facts about Moltke's military career is the fact that during the period 1836-40 he served voluntarily in the Ottoman army.

    Admiral Yaver Pasha (1802-76)

    (Service 1840-45, Background: gifted_administrator, Personality: diplomatic)
    Sir Baldwin Wake Walker was other of the British officers who helped to reorganize the Ottoman armed forces. After his service period in the Ottoman navy, he continued his career in the Royal Navy, where he would finally achieve the rank of full admiral. The Wake Walker family gave several admirals to the Royal navy during the XVIII, XIX and XX centuries.

    Admiral Müşavir Pasha (1804-77)

    (Service 1850-66, Background: cartographer, Personality: romantic)
    This guy was an englishman called sir Adolphus Slade, who joined the Ottoman navy and became its commander-in-chief during the Crimean war. He is also sometimes known as Slade Pasha.

    Sadik Pasha (1804-88)

    (Service 1850-72, Background: adventurer, Personality: gallant)
    Another picturesque character, a good example of the Romantic Era. This chap's birth name was Michál Czajkowski and he was born in to a family of the Polish nobility of the Ukraïne. He took part in the November uprising in 1830, and after the supression of the uprising, he fled to Paris where he joined the ranks of the Polish political movement in exile, led by prince Adam Czartoryski. He was then sent to Constantinople to organize the Polish political émigrés in the Ottoman empire. Because of growing differences with the other members of the Polish political movement, he ended up converting to Islam, took the name of Mehmet Sadik Pasha and in the wake of the Crimean War he formed an Ottoman cossack brigade and fought with distinction against the Russians in Eastern Anatolia. Several years later, influenced by his third wife (a Greek girl) he accepted an amnesty offered by Tsar Alexander II, went back to his Ukraïnian homeland and converted to the Orthodox faith. He ended up his life commiting suicide in 1888.

    Hurşid Pasha (1813-56)

    (Service 1852-56, Background: cavalry_school, Personality: skilled)
    This guy was an Hungarian aristocrat, called Count Richárd Guyon. He was one of the leaders of the army that fought for the independence of Hungary in 1848-49, and after the final defeat against the combined forces of Austria and Russia, he (along with other 6000 people) fled to the Ottoman Empire.There, he joined the Ottoman army and became the first to achieve the rank of "pasha" without being required to convert to Islam. He took part in the Crimean war and died of cholera in 1856.

    İsmail Pasha (1813-65)

    (Service 1850-62, Background: adventurer, Personality: balanced)
    This gentleman was another of the Hungarian generals who commanded the revolutionary army during the 1848-49 magyar uprising against the Habsburg dinasty; his birth name was György Kmety. After the Hungarian cause was crushed by the Austro-Russian combined forces, he crossed into Ottoman territory, here he converted to Islam, and became a general in the Ottoman army, known from then on as Ismail Pasha. He took part in the Crimean War, fighting in eastern Anatolia against the Russians.

    Baker Pasha (1827-87)

    (Service 1876-82, Background: cavalry_school, Personality: resourceful)
    Valentine Baker enjoyed a brilliant career in the British army from 1848 until 1874. In this later year, while he was serving as a colonel in Aldershot he was arrested, charged with "indecent assault" against a woman and expelled from the Army. In 1876 he entered the Ottoman army, and again he proved himself an excellent officer during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877, risinh to the rank of lieutnant-general. In 1882 he left the Ottoman army because he had been offered the command of the Egyptian army, but upon his arrival in Cairo, he only received the command of the police. When the mahdist revolt in Sudan broke out the goverment, after losing many troops in Sudan had to send a 3500-strong police force, led by Baker, to relieve the besieged garrison at Tokar. In the ensuing fight, Baker's force panicked and he and his officers, by means of their personal bravery, were able to execute a fighting retreat and were among the very few to survive.

    Mehmet Ali Pasha (1827-78)

    Born in Brandenburg an der Havel, in the kingdom of Prussia, Ludwig Karl Friedrich Detroit left his native country at a young age and travelled to the Ottoman empire, where he embraced Islam and took the name of Mehmet Ali. Under the protection of Grand Vizier Aali Pasha, he pursued a successful military career and became a general in 1865. He commanded at first the troops charged to supress the Bulgarian revolt in 1876, was later the Turkish representative at the Berlin Congress in 1878 and that same year was killed by insurgents after being destined to Albania.

    Wilhelm Leopold Colmar, Baron von der Goltz (1843-1916)

    In 1883, Sultan Abdulhamid, asked for German aid in reorganizing the Ottoman Army, and Baron von der Goltz was sent. He spent twelve years on this work (which would later provide the material for several of his books). After some years he was given the title Pasha (a signal honor for a non-Moslem) and in 1895, just before he returned to Germany, he was named Mushir (field-marshal). His improvements to the Ottoman army were significant and the Turkish army performed well in the Greco-Turkish War (1897). He would be sent again to the Ottoman empire during IWW,; it was he who commanded the Turkish Fifth Army that defended Mesopotamia and inflicted upon the British the humiliating defeat of Kut in 1916. That same year, Baron von der Goltz died of typhus in Bagdad.

    Admiral Woods Pasha (1843-1929)

    (Service 1886-1909, Background: yesman, Personality: resourceful)
    Sir Henry Felix Woods was a British naval officer that, after being attached to the British embassy in Istanbul decided to join the Ottoman Navy. There he would reach the rank of admiral, becoming the personal aide-de-camp to Sultan Abdulhamid. After his retirement he continued to dwell in Istanbul, leving only during the years of IWW and finally dying there in 1929.
    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
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  9. #29
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    Ottoman Leader Portraits III

    Otto Liman von Sanders (1855-1929)


    Mahmud Şevket Pasha (1856-1913)

    (Appointed Grand Vizier on 23rd january 1913, he was murdered while driving his car in the streets of Constantinople on 11th June 1913)

    Admiral Wilhelm von Souchon (1864-1946)


    Izzet Pasha (1864-1937)

    (Service 1909-20, Background: unfit, Personality: reserved)

    Fahrettin Pasha (1868-1948)

    (Service 1914-20, Background: gifted_administrator, Personality: stalwart)

    Friedrich, Baron Kress von Kressenstein (1870-1948)

    (Service 1914-20, Background: artillerist, Personality: clever)
    After the disastrous defeats in the First Balkan Wars, the Ottomans asked Germany for help to reorganize and reform the Army. In the winter of 1913-14, a mission of 40 German officers arrived to Istanbul. It was headed by Otto Liman von Sanders, and among its members was colonel Kress von Kressenstein. He was appointed as chief of staff of the Ottoman army in Syria and Palestina. Nominally under the command of Cemal Pasha, it was Kress who held the real power. It was him who planned the failed attack against the Suez Canal in 1915 and organized the victorious defense against the British army in the first and second battles of Gaza. After the British victory in the third battle of gaza in 1917, Liman von Sanders took command of the Palestinian front and Kress (now a lieutenant-general) took command of an army corps.


    Cevat Pasha (1870-1938)

    (Service 1914-35, Background: gifted_administrator, Personality: disciplined)

    Hasan Izzet Pasha (1871-1931)

    (Service 1905-14, Background: professor, Personality: coolminded)

    Ahmet Cemal Pasha (1872-1922)


    Nurettin Pasha (1873-1932)

    (Service 1918-25, Background: powerful_friends, Personality: merciless)

    Yakup Şevki Pasha (1876-1939)

    (Service 1914-39, Background: war_college, Personality: agressive)

    Fevzi Pasha (1876-1950)

    (Service 1914-44, Background: school_of_firepower, Personality: stout)

    Vehip Pasha (1877-1940)

    (Service 1914-20, Background: war_college, Personality: balanced)

    Fahrettin Altay (1880-1974)

    (Service 1917-45, Background: cavalry_school, Personality: relentless)

    Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (1881-1938)

    (Service 1909-38)

    Enver Pasha (1881-1922)

    (Service 1909-22)

    Kazim Inanç (1881-1938)

    (Service 1918-28, Background: war_college, Personality: inspiring)

    Refet Bey (1881-1963)

    (Service 1917-25, Background: exranker, Personality: inept)

    Admiral Hüseyin Rauf (1881-1964)

    (Service 1908-25, Background: expert_raider, Personality: audacious)

    Kazim Pasha (1882-1948)

    (Service 1916-25, Background: war_college, Personality: active)

    Halil Pasha (1882-1957)

    (Service 1914-20, Background: powerful_friends, Personality: audacious)

    Kemalettin Sami (1884-1934)

    (Service 1919-28, Background: generals_aide, Personality: spirited)

    Mustafa Ismet (1884-1973)

    (Service 1917-30, Background: artillerist, Personality: defiant)
    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
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    To be honest, this thread might as well be closed now. We've seen Tunch Khan - I can't see that there's anywhere else to go from here. ~ Austen
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  10. #30
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizy45 View Post
    What is your plans about Balkan Wars...
    We will have to wait and see how the game handles the historic wars if at all. Then we can see if there's a way to stimulate a war in the Balkans through events that decease relations, increase consciousness and give cores. I am against starting a Balkan War in 1912 just because it's historic. If a player handles any one of the Balkan powers differently, there may be significant changes in the course of history... That being said... plenty of events will sure fire to stimulate ethnic tensions if certain policies, decisions, national ideas are in effect.
    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
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    Who is this Tunch Khan? I thought Djem de Sayd was the only Ottoman Pretender the Christians had their hands on? ~ aylo1
    To be honest, this thread might as well be closed now. We've seen Tunch Khan - I can't see that there's anywhere else to go from here. ~ Austen
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  11. #31
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    Some nation tags I'm considering to include:


    Kars Republic: (1918 - 1920) Proclaimed in the city of Kars by the pro-Turkish National Council of the Southwest Caucasus, on December 01, 1918, after the Turkish troops had left the area they had occupied in Transcaucasia during the German-Turkish intervention. The republic was to include the mostly Muslim-inhabited regions of Kars and Batumi; part of the Erivan (Yerevan) district of the Erivan province; and the Akhaltsikhe and Akhalkalaki districts of the Tiflis province; however, the republic was actually confined to the Kars province. It existed alongside with the English general governorship created during the Entente's intervention in Transcaucasia. The Parliament of the new republic assembled on January 17 and adopted the constitution, "Teskilâtı Esasiye Kanunu". With the new 18 article long constitution, women were granted voting rights, Kars was declared the capital city and Turkish proclaimed the official language. On March 27, the parliament approved the new government.



    *

    Hatay Republic: (1938-1939) Hatay State (Turkish: Hatay Devleti, Arabic: لواء الإسكندرونة‎), also known informally as the Republic of Hatay, was an independent political entity that formally existed from September 7, 1938 to June 29, 1939 in the territory of the Sanjak of Alexandretta of the French Mandate of Syria. There's no saying the country couldn't have existed earlier had they been under occupation.



    *

    Republic of Gumuljina: (1913-1920) The Government of Western Thrace (Ottoman Turkish: غربی تراقیا حكومت موقته*سی - Garbi Trakya Hükûmeti Müstakilesi), was a small republic established in Western Thrace from 1913 to 1914. It encompassed the area surrounded the rivers Maritsa (Evros) in the east, Mesta (Nestos) in the west, the Rhodope Mountains in the north and the Aegean Sea in the south. As soon as independence was declared the government of the Republic of Gumuljina determined the borders of the country, put up the new flags on the official buildings, commissioned a national anthem, raised an army, published its own stamps and passports. It also prepared the budget of the new country. A Jewish citizen, Samuel Karaso, was tasked by the government with establishing an official press agency and to publish a newspaper named Müstakil (Independence) in Turkish and French. The Ottoman Laws and Regulations were adopted without any change and the cases started to be heard by the Court of Western Thrace. The republic was revived between 1919-1920 under French supervision.



    *

    Republic of Aras: (1918-1920) The Republic of Aras (Azerbaijani: Araz Respublikası; Armenian: Արաքս Հանրապետություն; also known as the Republic of Araks or the Araxi Republic) was a short-lived and unrecognized state in the South Caucasus, roughly corresponding with the territory that is now the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic of Azerbaijan. Named after the Aras River, the republic was declared in December 1918 by Jafar Kuli Khan Nakhchivanski with support from the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic's ruling party, the Musavat Party and the Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire.



    *

    Federation of the Dodecanese Islands: (1912-1915) After the outbreak of the Italian-Turkish war over nearby Libya, the islands finally declared independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1912, proclaiming an independent state as the Federation of the Dodecanese Islands.



    *

    Free State of Ikaria: (1912-1913) On July 18, 1912, the Free State of Icaria was declared. The neighboring islands of Fournoi Korseon were also liberated and became part of the Free State. Ioannis Malachias was the only president of the short-lived nation. It remained an independent state, with its own armed forces, flag, stamps, and anthem.



    *

    Principality of Samos: (1835-1912) In 1835, the Samians achieved self-government as a semi-independent state tributary to Ottoman Turkey, paying the annual sum of £2700. It was governed by a Christian of Greek descent though nominated by the Porte, who bore the title of "Prince." The prince was assisted in his function as chief executive by a 4-member senate. These were chosen by him out of eight candidates nominated by the four districts of the island: Vathy, Chora, Marathokoumbo and Karlovasi. The actual legislative power belonged to a chamber of 36 deputies, presided over by the Greek Orthodox Metropolitan. The seat of the government was Vathy.



    *

    Republic of Tarmash: (1878-1886) The Republic of Tamrash (Bulgarian: Тъмръшката република) was an independent state of the Muslim Pomaks and Turks, living in the Tamrash region of the Rhodope Mountains. The republic emerged as the Turks of the Tamrash region struggled to avoid the influence and the rule of the Bulgarians and the Russians after the Russo-Turkish War. It existed from 1878 to 1886. The republic spanned over the area locked between the Vacha River and the Chepelare River. The state initially consisted of 17 villages but its number increased up to 21 in 1880. Some of those villages were Trigrad, Mugla, Beden, Mihalkovo, Skoblevo, Churukovo and Devin. It received formal recognition by Ottoman Empire.



    *

    Crimean People's Republic: (1917-1918) The Crimean People's Republic (Crimean Tatar: Qırım Halq Cumhuriyeti) existed during December 1917-January 1918 on the territory of the Crimean Peninsula, now located in modern-day Crimea of southern Ukraine. It was the first attempt to establish a democratic and secular republic in the Muslim world. The Crimean People's Republic was declared by the initiative of the Qurultay of Crimean Tatars, but stipulated the equality of all ethnicities within the peninsula. Noman Çelebicihan was the first President.



    *

    Eastern Rumelia: (1878 – 1908) In 1878 the Berlin Congress established Eastern Rumelia (Bulgarian: Източна Румелия, Iztochna Rumeliya; Ottoman Turkish: روم الى شرقى, Rumeli-i Şarkî), as a separate and autonomous administrative region. The capital was Philippopolis (Filibe), modern Plovdiv. Eastern Rumelia or Roumelie Orientale was administrated by a Christian governor appointed by the Sultan.

    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
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  12. #32
    Me and Semper Victor have the leaderpictures saved in their original size, and we'll convert them so you don't have to convert those small pictures. It won't take much time either, I can get it done on release day, even.

    Just saying that you need not bother about the portraits at least.

  13. #33
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prinz Wilhelm View Post
    Me and Semper Victor have the leaderpictures saved in their original size, and we'll convert them so you don't have to convert those small pictures. It won't take much time either, I can get it done on release day, even.

    Just saying that you need not bother about the portraits at least.
    Thank you both once again. Now let's hope that the V2 format is something we are familiar with. This is what we are shooting for looking at Johan's Beta AAR:

    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
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    To be honest, this thread might as well be closed now. We've seen Tunch Khan - I can't see that there's anywhere else to go from here. ~ Austen
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  14. #34
    Captain Devout's Avatar
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    The Brazil AAR pictures show the prestige rankings with Ottoman Empire having 0 industrial value. I assume they transitioned the 6 factories into artisan capability. Something you might want to think about.

  15. #35
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    I had created these pops for my Vicky 1 Ottoman Empire game. Looking at the AARs, they should be good to go for many Balkan, Middle Eastern and North African player games in V2. I just need a better hold of the new artisan / clerk icons to finalize it. Current clerk icon is from Garek Maxwell, the rest are my stuff.

    Vanilla Vicky:



    Ottomania:

    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
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  16. #36
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    I just noticed that I finally made your signature after all!

    Wonderful stuff indeed. Thanks for that : ]

    Austen.

  17. #37
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMT0 View Post
    Weren't many Sultans of partial Greek, Bulgarian, or Armenian descent? If I remember right, by the time of the 18th century, the Sultan's lineage was so diluted that they where anything but Turkish at that point. Maybe via event, whenever one of the Sultans ascends to the throne historically, if their parent on the mother's side was of any of the above, that population gets a slight drop on militancy? Not too much though, I don't think any Sultan went around boasting they where Armenian. I have a short, rough list of notable events that aren't war-related, and not in order:

    - End of the Janissaries(It could be an event with a choice to reform them, also)
    - End of Jyzia(Or not)
    - Discovery of Iraqi Oil
    - Ottoman reforms(Various)
    - End of absolute rule(Basically, no more Sultan is absolute ruler, not sure when that happened....)
    - The most loyal subjects of the empire(Armenians become notable bureaucrats, aristocrats, officers, etc.)
    - Fall from grace/Return of Ottoman Supremacy(Basically, rise and fall between Great Power and 2nd tier, in the case of the Ottomans, whenever they fall, war with Russia should be likely)
    - Various other discoveries of oil(Kuwait, Red Sea, Libya, Oman, Persian Gulf, take your pick, there's a bunch to chose from, assuming the Ottomans retain control of these locations)
    - (insert nationality in plural here) is seeking refuge from (insert nation here). (Circassians, Ossetians, Jews, Armenians, Arabs, Berbers, Azeris, Persians, Tartars, Muslims from Greece, Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria, etc. Any nationality that could have been or was expelled from their homes by outside powers migrating to the Ottoman Empire, these events should be more and more likely the stronger the Ottomans are)

    Short, rough, and missing many points
    Thank you for the suggestions. I already have a long and detailed list of possible events, ideas and decisions but we will wait for the game release to see which ones are already in. Btw, the Janissaries were already removed permanently about a decade prior to game start date. For the moment you may want to focus on potential flavor events (so that we don't spend energy on events that already have a chance of existing in vanilla). Discovery of oil is an interesting event and they can be province related generic events. What kind of outcomes were you thinking of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devout View Post
    The Brazil AAR pictures show the prestige rankings with Ottoman Empire having 0 industrial value. I assume they transitioned the 6 factories into artisan capability. Something you might want to think about.
    I have noticed that too. By 1836 it's hard to talk about any significant Ottoman industry to be honest but we will definitely look at the issue as soon as the game is released and we compare them to other nations of similar caliber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Austen View Post
    I just noticed that I finally made your signature after all!

    Wonderful stuff indeed. Thanks for that : ]

    Austen.
    Thanks and looking forward to your support.
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  18. #38
    the Infidel Tunch Khan's Avatar
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    We still need some event ideas here. Any suggestions?
    si vis pacem para bellum Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.-Otto von Bismarck
    Member of the OTFTRC - Off Topic Friends of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus -------- Istanbul Panorama 360°
    OttoMania - your link to the Ottoman Culture and Lifestyle in EU III
    ................. Neo-Ottomans thread
    Who is this Tunch Khan? I thought Djem de Sayd was the only Ottoman Pretender the Christians had their hands on? ~ aylo1
    To be honest, this thread might as well be closed now. We've seen Tunch Khan - I can't see that there's anywhere else to go from here. ~ Austen
    Turkey in HOI2 - OTTOMANIA ~ Mod and Modular Pack for Victoria 2 - VIEW THREAD
    ........ **Thread Monster** ... History, with all her volumes vast, hath but one page.

  19. #39
    Hürriyet ve İtilaf Fırkası Kurdistani's Avatar
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    First things first - The list of political parties needs to be sorted out - It seems to be a wee bit mixed up - I will come out with a list - ASAP (After consulting the books...

    Moreover - I have some great pictures that can be used for backgrounds on the evets tablos - Some Ottoman fermans - Ottoman news papers - etc.

    I am brain storming events - Events

    Hatt-ı Şerif-i Gülhane

    Hatt-ı Humayun

    Kanun-i Essasi

    Autonomy of Leb.

    Hijaz Railway

    Bedirhan Revolt

    Ubeydullah Revolt

    İlan-i Hürriyet

    Musa Ağa Olayı

    Ridvan Pasha Olayı

    Missionary related chain

    Armenian Related chain
    (1895 Olayları and so on)

    A chain about Islamic reformism (I will have to go through Tarık Zafer Tunaya)

    A chain about the rise of positivism in the Ottoman Empire

    Civilising tribes events (tribal school - Tribal regiments etc.)
    Full time love machine

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunch Khan View Post
    We still need some event ideas here. Any suggestions?
    Not events but decisions:

    -Military academies:
    Such as Mekteb-i Harbiye, Mekteb-i Bahriye and decisions relating to expanding or reforming them. These decisions can encourage officer promotions in provinces relating to them(or maybe they can give some boost in military techs). In return they can make officer POPs less conservative and demanding more reforms.

    Hell, add Mekteb-i Mülkiye to the list for a similar effect for Bureaucrat POPs.

    -Closing the Guilds and incorporating them to companies:
    Can "discourage"(if such a feature exists) artisan POPs in return of encouraging capitalists.

    Also Alevis, Druzes and Yezidis can be represented among minority religions.
    Last edited by euphorist; 22-07-2010 at 05:43.

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