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Thread: [Brainstorm #5] Alexander The Great

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    The Brainstormer Emperor Leo's Avatar
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    [Brainstorm #5] Alexander The Great

    With Johan hinting that a new Rome expansion would more than likely go down the Alexander route, I thought I'd leave this brainstorm totally open to ideas as to what you would like to see featured (regarding Alexander, Diadochi, the appropriate time period, new factions, the map, etc.).

    How would you like to see this time period represented? Are there any "must have" wishlists for the Alexander expansion?

  2. #2
    As I wrote in the poll thread I think it should focus on immersion and make you care about the characters more or at least allow you to better trace what's happening to the important people.

    But exactly how I'm not sure. I'll have to think about that a bit.

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    I care very little for the time frame given, however this is the opportunity to finally get some modding support build into the game so hopefully we will get all the triggers and effects from EU3 ported to EUR!

    One can dream

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    General Will Lucky's Avatar
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    How about Historical Titles expanding on the titles you can give characters. Alexander starts off simply as Alexander but with several military victories under his belt you can assign him a title and the more battles he wins the more that title increases and alongside it this brings him more wealth and popularity.

    And of course something like this applies to other characters if they have the right martial skill. Something similar could be given to skilful governors, ministers ect as well.

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    Meteorsexual Teurlinx's Avatar
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    I think we should get a really cool loading screen with a pic of Alexander, and nothing else. There's plenty other stuff mentioned in these threads to put in the expansion
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    The Brainstormer Emperor Leo's Avatar
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    How about Historical Titles expanding on the titles you can give characters
    I really like this idea. It could be used for Rome in the way of victory titles. If set requirements are met, the ruler gains the title. For example, if you claim all of the region of Britannia, your ruler gains the title Britannicus, which provides bonuses. To make this universal, rulers could gain titles such as "...The Great" or "...The Conqueror", when requirements are met.

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    Banned Tambourmajor's Avatar
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    A complete rework of the culture mechanic. At the very least, provide the functionality of the EU3 culture mechanic, with primary & accepted cultures, culture groups etc. instead of the wonky thing we currently have.

    Ideally, there would be cultural policies/decisions or some kind of relationship matrix for the cultures in your empire, so e.g. you could decide to increase relations with the Persian subject population, maybe even make them an "accepted" culture, but at the cost of angering your Macedonian core population.

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    The Brainstormer Emperor Leo's Avatar
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    A complete rework of the culture mechanic. At the very least, provide the functionality of the EU3 culture mechanic, with primary & accepted cultures, culture groups etc. instead of the wonky thing we currently have.

    Ideally, there would be cultural policies/decisions or some kind of relationship matrix for the cultures in your empire, so e.g. you could decide to increase relations with the Persian subject population, maybe even make them an "accepted" culture, but at the cost of angering your Macedonian core population.
    Very good suggestion! I would very much like to see this!

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    Byzantophile Daimyō DarthJF's Avatar
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    We would also need a new system for countries collapsing and splintering. Something to simulate the all out conquest of Persia by Alexander, and the birth of Diadochi states that followed. Instead of all out civil wars it should also be possible for rebellious generals to carve up their own kingdoms from a splintering empire.
    "It is because people's minds are not logical and enlightened that the Empire is in disorder. If the country is not properly ruled there will be no end to rebellions. And if anyone wishes to get the knowledge of how to rule it properly he will only find it in books. That is why the publication of books is the beginning of beneficient rule."

    - Tokugawa Ieyasu

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    The Brainstormer Emperor Leo's Avatar
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    We would also need a new system for countries collapsing and splintering. Something to simulate the all out conquest of Persia by Alexander, and the birth of Diadochi states that followed. Instead of all out civil wars it should also be possible for rebellious generals to carve up their own kingdoms from a splintering empire.
    I have some ideas in mind for tommorrow's Brainstorm, regarding this.

    Not that it's of any significance, but I won't have time to post a Brainstorm for a few days.
    Last edited by Emperor Leo; 28-05-2010 at 19:27.

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    Colonel Buladelu's Avatar
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    Titles is a good idea. Maybe something like "the Conqueror", or "Peacemaker" or "Terrible". It could also affect family popularity: everybody loves conquerors' son.

    More dynamic missions for persons. Some examples:
    For generals: conquer some province, face particular general in battle, get biggest army under command. Completing those kind of missions could have chance to rise stats/popularity but make him more ambitious and you see where it's coming.
    For women: get husband for daughter, get job for son, lower enemy's popularity.

    And make some personalities for characters. Character could have stated number of personal traits that don't change much after childhood, other traits are skills and public opinion. Personality defines his goals and ways so you know what to wait from him. And if any person MUST go against it's nature it gets stress and so on.

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    Field Marshal anomanderus's Avatar
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    I want more dynamic religion. Namely, I want to be able to move Greek/Roman religion towards more polytheism or monotheism, and add in things like holy books, or leave the religion as a collection of fables. More flexibility, more state control of religion or more grass roots freedom for religion to change. The ability to keep the religion from developing holy war or to create a form of holy war. Christianity "birth" events, where the religion gets founded if they increase the timeline just a little in the direction of the empire. No giant religion groups like they have in EU3, no more "paganism, hellenism, semitic and monotheistic" groups, that's not how it was in roman times. Ability to borrow deities from other religions.

    I also want cultures to be revamped. There should be "ization" percentage readings in each province, showing the levels of barbarization, romanization, hellenization etc.

    I want ancient indian religions like Jainism to be in game, not some kind of ignored religion like Jews are in EU3.

    The Greco-Buddhist Kushan empire should be in the game. They'll instantly be my favorite country to play if they are.

    More barbarians, and revamp them so they aren't so much like the new world Natives in EU3, fodder for the romans, but actual threats like they were in real life.

    I want there to be some kinds of decisions involved with claiming to be alexander's successor, especially if you are able to conquer back the empire from the other diadochi. Diadochi should stand out as more than just a casus belli against other diadochi. There should be choices as a diadochi whether to hellenize your empire, go native or create a new cultural syncreticism. Percentages of cultures should be in the game. Certain diadochi should get points/bonuses for having more of alexander's empire or for having more important parts, like macedonia, egypt and seleucids should have the strongest claims/bonuses at the beginning of the game due to being alexander's heartland and the other two are huge empires and powerful.

    Colonia should be in the game, but rather than being settlement policies they should act like "cultural missionaries" in that they will gradually bring provinces to your culture, also they shouldn't be a "bad thing/infamy getter" like they are in EU3. Actually they should increase "ization" gain, like hellenization but that shouldn't totally replace the original culture in a rapid space of time.

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    Some more inderect control. Make people outside of our control more often make some things on their own - not just random stuff but actions suiting situation and personalities. Buying mercenaries for kingdom on the edge, bribing officials, create traderoots, fleeing to other country and so on. And they should use money! There're too little of those events now and they aren't going into context. Any person wanting a title trys to bribe, almost any governors build temples.

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    The 45 Tommy4ever's Avatar
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    This game should not be pushed forward toward the Empire IMO. That should be a whole new game. I reckon there should be EU: Rome that lasts up to the birth of the Empire. Then a game about Imperial Rome that lasts (roughly) from Augustus' rise to Emperor to the Fall of Rome. Then a game set between the fall of Rome and CK which will detail Bibarian migrations, the rise of Islam and all other goodies. Rome would do best to merely go back to Alexander.

    However when making the game the designers have to garuntee that any Empire conquered by Alexander will fall apart quickly or else the entire game could be ruined by one massive blob from the Indus to the Ionian.

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    General Camara's Avatar
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    In order to play the Diadochi properly, I can the province number should be increased a lot in some somes (obviously Greece and the Turkish Aegean Coast).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    This game should not be pushed forward toward the Empire IMO. That should be a whole new game. I reckon there should be EU: Rome that lasts up to the birth of the Empire. Then a game about Imperial Rome that lasts (roughly) from Augustus' rise to Emperor to the Fall of Rome. Then a game set between the fall of Rome and CK which will detail Bibarian migrations, the rise of Islam and all other goodies. Rome would do best to merely go back to Alexander.

    However when making the game the designers have to garuntee that any Empire conquered by Alexander will fall apart quickly or else the entire game could be ruined by one massive blob from the Indus to the Ionian.
    Well, maybe the start date shouldn't be while Phillip is on the throne, but right after alexander's death when the diadochi have started fighting each other. THAT would be a trial by fire kind of start, eh?

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    The Brainstormer Emperor Leo's Avatar
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    However when making the game the designers have to garuntee that any Empire conquered by Alexander will fall apart quickly or else the entire game could be ruined by one massive blob from the Indus to the Ionian.
    I don't think Paradox intend to use Alexander in a literal sense where he recreates his achievements by the book. at least I hope not. I assumed that the Alexander expansion would be used simply as a point of reference to introduce new gameplay elements. I hope the (possible) expansion doesn't end up like Alexander Total War, with a scenario where you're forced into following Alexander's footsteps.

    I want the Alexander, Ptolemy, Antiochus, etc. characters to be available to use as I or the AI see fit.

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    The 45 Tommy4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Leo View Post
    I don't think Paradox intend to use Alexander in a literal sense where he recreates his achievements by the book. at least I hope not. I assumed that the Alexander expansion would be used simply as a point of reference to introduce new gameplay elements. I hope the (possible) expansion doesn't end up like Alexander Total War, with a scenario where you're forced into following Alexander's footsteps.

    I want the Alexander, Ptolemy, Antiochus, etc. characters to be available to use as I or the AI see fit.
    can you imagine how disappointing it would be fore someone to buy a game with Alexander in the title and not be able to play the great man himself?

    This will be the expansion's main selling point.

    I imagine for the first couple of decades of game you just play Alexander (or watch an ultra successful AI Alexander) go on a conquering spree then die. Then his Hellenetic Emprie crumbles and the successor states squabble over the carcass. That is how the game should start.

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    Colonel Buladelu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    I imagine for the first couple of decades of game you just play Alexander (or watch an ultra successful AI Alexander) go on a conquering spree then die. Then his Hellenetic Emprie crumbles and the successor states squabble over the carcass. That is how the game should start.
    Oh god. Oh god. I want it.

    There was that good strategy style in Master of Orion and Galactic Civilization when there is drugged and buffed civilization you wouldn't overcome on your own. Playing antimacedonian force, finishing dying Alexanders Empire, living as dying Alexanders Empire would be really awesome. Something like Timurids in EU3, eh?

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    The Brainstormer Emperor Leo's Avatar
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    can you imagine how disappointing it would be fore someone to buy a game with Alexander in the title and not be able to play the great man himself?
    I'm not saying that he shouldn't be in the game, just available for me or the AI to use in any way we like. Obviously, his Martial skill and traits would hint towards using him as a General, but I want to use him however I feel.

    I imagine for the first couple of decades of game you just play Alexander (or watch an ultra successful AI Alexander) go on a conquering spree then die. Then his Hellenetic Emprie crumbles and the successor states squabble over the carcass. That is how the game should start.
    To be honest, this would turn me off buying an Alexander expansion if this was the case. I play EU Rome for the freedom to forge an nation as I see fit, not to be restricted to playing as Macedonia or be force-fed his conquests. The game may as well begin after his death.

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