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Thread: Some thoughts about slavery in Victoria 2

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    Some thoughts about slavery in Victoria 2

    One of the major conflicts in the 19th century was about slavery or the abolishing of slavery (officially...). But the simple fact to allow it or not allow it seems (IMO) not enough. Just think of Mauretania, which was the last country to abolish slavery by the end of the 20th century (again "officially"). Basically I would distinguish 4 levels of slavery:

    1. slavery forbidden
    That would mean, no slavery allowed at all. There should be a negative modifier concerning diplomatic interactions with states with a higher slavery level. Slaves in newly conquered/colonized provinces should be turned to workers/farmers immediately

    2. slavery tolerated, trade banned, no new slaves
    More or less self explaining, the number of slaves in a province should slowly decline (moved to workers/farmers)

    3. slave trade tolerated
    For a country with this setting, slaves should appear as trade goods on the world market. Low level populations with bad economic situation can become slaves.

    4. active slaver
    Additional to level 3, a percentage (10%?) of the population of newly conquered provinces can be moved to the "slave pool" Also there would be the possibility for military units to raid uncontroled provinces for slaves...

    Additionally slavery can be considered a war goal: For exampel Oman attacking Yemen to capture 10000 slaves?, or maybe England attacking Oman to force them to abolish slavery?

    The level of slavery could be changed either as a social reform or in the case of a peace negociation. According to actual western attitude towards slavery I would not recomend an increase of slavery level....

    BG
    Mimosnigel

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    While it *would* be cool to play the Ottoman Empire, conquer Britain and enslave its population, I somehow doubt we'll see this in the game

  3. #3
    Slavery is political reform (allowed/not allowed) and slave POPs won't be traded.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal anomanderus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosnigel View Post
    Additionally slavery can be considered a war goal: For exampel Oman attacking Yemen to capture 10000 slaves?, or maybe England attacking Oman to force them to abolish slavery?


    Mimosnigel
    England is world police?

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    I would love to enslave my enemies...but I realize it's a bit of a hot button..for some reason.
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    enslavement involves them as puppets

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    While the ability to only ban trade and raids would make sense for both India and Africa, Paradox have already stated there won't be a that complex slave system. Just slavery allowed or banned.
    general Otto Metzler in a Federation of Equals

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    Whats the advantage of slavery if there is one?

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    Victoria's Plastic Surgeon OHgamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anomanderus View Post
    England is world police?
    In the 19th C yes, it was when it came to the slave trade. Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Oman/Zanzibar all felt strong British pressure to end the slave trade.

    But Paradox has been consistent in this since V1 - slave trade will not be modelled in the game. Slavery will continue to exist in those territories that it existed in for 1836 and as a political decision can be maintained or abolished, but the actual slave trade itself (which was much reduced by the 1830s compared to levels at the height of the trade in the period 1765-1790) will not be modelled.
    2014 will hopefully allow me to be more active with Paradox games than the last few years

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by anomanderus View Post
    England is world police?
    See: Bombardment of Algiers, Heligoland-Zanzibar treaty, annexation of Lagos, Slave Trade Act 1807
    “Bolshevism is knocking at our gates, we can’t afford to let it in… We must keep America whole and safe and unspoiled. We must keep the worker away from red literature and red ruses; we must see that his mind remains healthy.” – Al Capone

  11. #11
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    Speaking of Slavery dont you guys think that the numbers of slaves is too small? In 1836 there is hardly 2 million slaves around. There are about 600.000 slaves in the USA and only 250.000 in Brazil and 150.000 in Portugal.

    It is sincerely hard to believe that Portugal and Brazil had only that small number of slaves around 1836. I understand the needs to represent the working male adult part of the population, but to slavery, it hardy made a diference if the slave in cause was a woman, a man, a child, or even their respective age.

    Whats the advantage of slavery if there is one?
    Slaves always have their luxury needs satisfied even if they got no cash. Which i think it is a slight problem to be frank - their consciousness will raise high as damn! It should remain damn low, in my opinion.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHgamer View Post
    In the 19th C yes, it was when it came to the slave trade. Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Oman/Zanzibar all felt strong British pressure to end the slave trade.
    This reminds me of something I kept thinking during my first couple games. I think there should be an "End Slavery" CB. As a non-slave-holding country, you could get a CB against slave-holding countries, allowing you to demand that they abolish the institution. As is, the only way for the British to "pressure" other countries to end slavery is to annex them.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BurningEGO View Post
    Slaves always have their luxury needs satisfied even if they got no cash. Which i think it is a slight problem to be frank - their consciousness will raise high as damn! It should remain damn low, in my opinion.
    That's an interesting problem. If slaves had demands, that would raise prices on the world market. As an aside, do slaves contribute towards plurality?
    “Bolshevism is knocking at our gates, we can’t afford to let it in… We must keep America whole and safe and unspoiled. We must keep the worker away from red literature and red ruses; we must see that his mind remains healthy.” – Al Capone

  14. #14
    I would prefer as the Ottomans to turn my conquered peoples into war slaves. Kinda like janissaries.

    Conquer your opponents, but a NF on there for soldier, build your armies out of these pathetic lesser races..

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    The Paradox developers work for a business, not a Historical Society. Just like HOI3 and the Holocaust, there are some things that are best left out of V2 in the best interest of both Paradox and the consumer.

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    Just a quick (pre-emptive) warning to keep to the topic and please re-read the forum rules very carefully before posting in this thread. Thanks!
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  17. #17
    You can check out some pop_types tweaks I've done in a previous slavery thread to enable the active capturing of slaves. Works pretty well. Plus I fleshed out their political leanings, and made them able to work in factories.

    still working to make it better....

  18. #18
    Hmm now thats an idea. A slave uprising event with the option for neighbouring countries to intervene militarily would be nice flavour.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    Just a quick (pre-emptive) warning to keep to the topic and please re-read the forum rules very carefully before posting in this thread. Thanks!
    I don't see anything about slaves

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