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Thread: Children of the Fatherland: MP conversion game

  1. #1821
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Chrisian nations? Bah! We want a higher colonist gain than 0. How come Spain don't get any colonists on the basis that they believe Jesus was a prophet? That is the game simulating geopolitics that do not exist in our game.
    Muslims still have a stranglehold on the Silk Road last I checked, same as OTL. Just recently confirmed by Fatimid annexation of the only Mediterranean Silk road terminus previously in Christian hands, ex-Roman Syria, Fatimids now control all the traditional Mediterranean ends of the land route just as Turks did in OTL. So the Christians still have the motive to explore sea routes to Asia that is lacking for the Muslims. It's not that massively different from the OTL setup, is it? Only that Muslim Spain wouldn't have the massive incentive to find a route around that Christian Spain did, since Muslim spain is best friends with the Silk Road route holder instead of worst enemies.

    But why would you have to mod? Couldn't you change colonists in the savegame?
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  2. #1822
    Generations of warfare and ethnic purges forgotten?
    Juuust as soon as Crete is Arab, yes
    I take it Crete is Greek culture currently, and we haven't quite seen the end of Christian bishops heads getting nailed up outside the Fatimid palace?
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  3. #1823
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    silk routes
    We are doing away with the HRE and Chinese factions, as they were considered bad, and editing all kinds of stuff in ROTW to make it more fun to play. Why shaft specifically us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Irsh Faq View Post
    I take it Crete is Greek culture currently, and we haven't quite seen the end of Christian bishops heads getting nailed up outside the Fatimid palace?
    Weeeeeell, now that we are friends with the Greeks we can't be nailing Patriarchs to stuff. But on the other hand controlling the mob is not as easy after decades of anti-greek propaganda, so the smart ones should be packing their bags as we speak..
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  4. #1824
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    We are doing away with the HRE and Chinese factions, as they were considered bad, and editing all kinds of stuff in ROTW to make it more fun to play. Why shaft specifically us?
    Well, as I understand that's because there is no massively decentralized HRE and nobody is playing unified China. But whether you mod the game to give Muslims a boost colonizing on game balance grounds is up to you guys. I was just commenting on the geopolitical motivations for exploration and that, given Muslim dominance over the Middle East, they're not very different different from OTL except in the case of Spain, where the motivation to explore would be less, not more (no reason to launch difficult Western expeditions looking for Asia when there's no barrier to the normal eastern route)
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  5. #1825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irsh Faq View Post
    (no reason to launch difficult Western expeditions looking for Asia when there's no barrier to the normal eastern route)
    But there are a boatload of middle men and lords along the way taxing/hiking prices, and the traders in Morrocco/Spain are end recievers who profit not but instead pay exorbiant prices for these goods. Entrepeneurial souls and Sultans of these parts of the Caliphate would realize that they, if not the Calipha, stand to benefit massively from circumventin all that overhead and selling it themselves to the Europeans.
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  6. #1826
    Actually that seems much less true. In OTL you had that, yes, with the collapse of Mongol rule in Persia spawning a dozen petty states along the route. Here you have a stable and powerful Persia that seems unlikely to be overrun by Mongols who can subsequently collapse into said boatload of petty lords and middlemen, given that they are AI and Persia isn't.
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  7. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irsh Faq View Post
    Well, as I understand that's because there is no massively decentralized HRE and nobody is playing unified China. But whether you mod the game to give Muslims a boost colonizing on game balance grounds is up to you guys. I was just commenting on the geopolitical motivations for exploration and that, given Muslim dominance over the Middle East, they're not very different different from OTL except in the case of Spain, where the motivation to explore would be less, not more (no reason to launch difficult Western expeditions looking for Asia when there's no barrier to the normal eastern route)
    It isn't like Persia and Egypt/Spain get along with each other very well...
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  8. #1828
    Wasn't Frosty just making a big thing about now that Egypt has taken the territory it wanted, all is friendly in the ME?
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  9. #1829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irsh Faq View Post
    Wasn't Frosty just making a big thing about now that Egypt has taken the territory it wanted, all is friendly in the ME?
    Ah, yes the Caliphates are now bestest of friends, and all the grand mullahs/supreme ayatollahs/high muftis have been dispatched to Mecca to figure out just how the devil that will work. With both the Abbasids and Fatimids claiming the unique title of Allah's anointed Imam, Calipha and Infallible Emir al-Mu'minin. The good news is that under Shi'ite doctrine they both have about equal claim to the bloodline of the Prophet. The Abbasids claiming descendant from one of Muhammad's uncles, while the Fatimids have the trump that their guy was Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law and also one of the Rashidun and founder of Shi'ism!

    Will the Moslem scholars and clerics be able to find a way to reunite Baghdad and Alexandria? Will the Dar al-Islam yet again be one unified House of Worship? Will there be a Sultanate of Scotland? Stay tuned for our next exiting installment!
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  10. #1830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irsh Faq View Post
    Wasn't Frosty just making a big thing about now that Egypt has taken the territory it wanted, all is friendly in the ME?
    Pigs can fly! Tune in at 11 for details.
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  11. #1831
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    [Frosty`s AAR]

    Well, you know telling you that I am willing to break NAP was the only sure way I knew to assure peace =]

    Raison d`Etat stands above morality. In truth it itself is morality.

  12. #1832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakalo View Post
    [Frosty`s AAR]

    Well, you know telling you that I am willing to break NAP was the only sure way I knew to assure peace =]
    So telling people that your word means nothing will make them believe what you say?
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  13. #1833
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakalo View Post
    I am plotting your demise right now, and any sworn assurances I give to the contrary carry no weight.
    Now, saying "My word cannot be trusted" to the face of your largest neighbor (from whom you have taken land) is not usually considered good foreign policy. You and Denmark could have weaseled your way out of the NAPs by deciding to follow the text of the treaty and not the spirit, then Denmark could have attacked me/oddman and you OY/vR without technically breaking your word. Instead you declare your oaths null and void the second it becomes inopportune to keep them. How am I supposed to treat such a neighbor but assume his every word is a lie? You are working quite hard at unnecessarily escalating a peaceful coexistence into a relation where both sides feel pressured to launch preemptive strikes because of lack of trust.

    Raison d`Etat stands above morality. In truth it itself is morality.
    Realpolitik is one thing, lying as instituted state policy quite another. The Byzantine Emperor is a notorious backstabber and circumventer of treaties, but his word can be trusted. Mistaking subterfuge and oathbreaking for each other is a swift road to a nations demise.
    Last edited by FrozenWall; 18-01-2011 at 09:53.
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  14. #1834
    Not a necromancer, no sir! Foelsgaard's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Ah, yes the Caliphates are now bestest of friends, and all the grand mullahs/supreme ayatollahs/high muftis have been dispatched to Mecca to figure out just how the devil that will work. With both the Abbasids and Fatimids claiming the unique title of Allah's anointed Imam, Calipha and Infallible Emir al-Mu'minin. The good news is that under Shi'ite doctrine they both have about equal claim to the bloodline of the Prophet. The Abbasids claiming descendant from one of Muhammad's uncles, while the Fatimids have the trump that their guy was Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law and also one of the Rashidun and founder of Shi'ism!
    All muslims are now at peace! Praise God the almighty and His prophet Muhammad!
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  15. #1835
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Realpolitik is one thing, lying as instituted state policy quite another. The Byzantine Emperor is a notorious backstabber and circumventer of treaties, but his word can be trusted.
    It's the same with Jakalo, only he doesn't brag about it

  16. #1836
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Instead you declare your oaths null and void the second it becomes inopportune to keep them.
    Interesting story, now here is the truth about how it really happened:


  17. #1837
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    The evilness of your propaganda is shocking! And entertaining!

    Well, I'll know not to trust you next time atleast!


    Besides, when I was attacked during my civil war, you supported the agressors. You were part of the evil, trying to claim the victim's role now is fail! Evil Denmark! D:
    Last edited by von_Rundstedt; 18-01-2011 at 16:08.

  18. #1838
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolibri View Post
    Interesting story, now here is the truth about how it really happened:
    These comic aars keep getting better and better
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  19. #1839
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edzako View Post
    It's the same with Jakalo, only he doesn't brag about it
    No, he tells me straight up he will lie to me!

    Quote Originally Posted by PM from Jakalo
    Well if I was planning to attack you I would have no incentive to tell you I was going to attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by PM from Jakalo
    Also why would I tell you the truth?
    Sooo, yea. "You can totalt trust me when I tell you we are friends. Unless I intend to attack you, in which case I will actively decieve you into thinking you are my friend. Also nothing I say carries any moral weight".

    Russia made him do it!
    Well that is immaterial, isn't it? The question is wether ones word can be trusted or not when it matters, ie when you don't feel like holding it. He could have threatened me, and W.Rome threatened Rus/Croatia, and no word would technically have been broken.

    HULK SMASH
    Hey! They started that war! And don't come with that "defensive preemption" bleha, the greeks have already self-defended their way from Antioch to the gates of Milan all the while pretending to be a bunch of vegetarian hippie peacelovers. Who has Russia attacked?, why wont people stop poking the bear?
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  20. #1840
    Not a necromancer, no sir! Foelsgaard's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Hey! They started that war! And don't come with that "defensive preemption" bleha, the greeks have already self-defended their way from Antioch to the gates of Milan all the while pretending to be a bunch of vegetarian hippie peacelovers. Who has Russia attacked?, why wont people stop poking the bear?
    Hey now, let's not tear up old wounds just as we were about to sing Kumbaya!
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