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well the frosty's and Jakalo's voice echoes the reason of my orginal refusall to become their personal little sicilian chewtoy ;)

Its not our fault everything you touch gets invaded at the first possible opportunity. :p
 
oh you evil demons just keep telling that to yourself to get sleep at nigths ;)
 
Well, this is all very interesting...but wasn't this primarily meant as an AAR thread?? ;)

This is MP, the discussion and drama is part of the living aar! :D
 
Well, this is all very interesting...but wasn't this primarily meant as an AAR thread?? ;)

Here's an AAR for you:

At some point in time, somewhere in the world, intriguing things happened.

There was lots of head scratching, face touching and mustache twiddling.

Great things came from this.
 
Golle, noone ever made a ruling on wheter the "anonymious future chinese player" is going to get to play China or not. Himself, you and others seem to think that it's already set-in-stone.

Anyways, resources, there are quite a few valid points for different arguments. I think the only thing I can currently agree to is reducing the amount of recources available in HoI. It's a game about warfare, not a game about building IC for 2/3rds of the game. We should try to keep it that way.

About Italy: KoM offered to released southern Italy if a player is found. If we can squeeze in another player, that'd probably be the best spot.


Edit: Damn you! Now you made me post stuff like that in our AAR thread! Meanies!

King of Men's previous words on the topic were that previous game veterans get a priority for RoTW picks, also calculated are things like contributions (cough my EU3->Vic2 converter, Dan's tentative Asian scenario for him in Mexico) as its unfair for us to make these kinds of efforts and commitments and not get some kind of assurance that we get our preferred spots along with noticed and recognized game commitment (subbing, forumtalk, aars), etc.

While it may be a bit arrogant of me to be completely certain of me and Dano's future positions in EU3 it is fairly reasonable to assume that these picks are very much probable, since Dano has been to my knowledge reassured that he will get Mexico barring catastrophe despite not subbing in CK and only been in one Great Game from only EU3 you can see how confidence in a certain possibility is well... probable.


Now as for IC growth I disagree, I think the option for economic growth should remain, unless were willing to disable the ability to produce IC and turn on full IC takeover this was a period where both resource extraction and economic growth both surged ahead significantly and I think it completely unrealistic to deny that, the point is we should be figuring out a way to allow for such growth to be sustainable regardless of where you are.
 
King of Men's previous words on the topic were that previous game veterans get a priority for RoTW picks, also calculated are things like contributions (cough my EU3->Vic2 converter, Dan's tentative Asian scenario for him in Mexico) as its unfair for us to make these kinds of efforts and commitments and not get some kind of assurance that we get our preferred spots along with noticed and recognized game commitment (subbing, forumtalk, aars), etc.

While it may be a bit arrogant of me to be completely certain of me and Dano's future positions in EU3 it is fairly reasonable to assume that these picks are very much probable, since Dano has been to my knowledge reassured that he will get Mexico barring catastrophe despite not subbing in CK and only been in one Great Game from only EU3 you can see how confidence in a certain possibility is well... probable.


Now as for IC growth I disagree, I think the option for economic growth should remain, unless were willing to disable the ability to produce IC and turn on full IC takeover this was a period where both resource extraction and economic growth both surged ahead significantly and I think it completely unrealistic to deny that, the point is we should be figuring out a way to allow for such growth to be sustainable regardless of where you are.


I recall the last ruling to be something along the lines "lets drop the issue until we actually reach EU3, and then we'll see who gets what". I suggest we keep it that way and stop jumping to assumptions in every 2nd post.


I don't mind people building IC, but I do mind people playing the game just to build damn IC. As I read the reports of the HoI-phase of the last game, Varyar and KoM spent most of their time with building IC, and, well, you spent even more time on building IC, probably too much. It's still mostly a wargame, and not a "who can build the most IC till '64".
 
Sid, in honor of the release of your newest game, I think you should play as Sukothai - itself the newest addition to the countries listed in the Civilization games. Personally, I'm disappointed that the Mongols were not included, so I would suggest Dan play as the Mongol Khanate.
 
I've actually advocated that Blayne, as so close in charm to the Mongols, would play the Mongols in CK (if our mod allows) and then if he manages to survive eu3, then playes The Golden Horde.

[rant]As for the Eu3 player positions, Im not saying that Blayne and Dano cannot even play, but play what, that apparently isen't yet set to the stone. As for me beeing destined to go to asia in Eu3, I find this akwardly stubid, discouraging and sign of really poor Gamemastership. How on earth cannot such three profilic players who hate/love each others so well be able to pick their nations at this point?

Well the answer is:
China conversation quote rally madness. And everybody hates them. And our Gamemasters cannot deal with them. So in order to get rid of them, they just ban these conversations and therefore harm mines, blayne's and Dano's preparations. Blayne and Dano will most likely even be the ones who will set up the asian distribution in our starting settings, and Im still currently in the player roster with exception to everyone else that I have no idea where my game goes in 1399.

Simplest solution would be that Blayne would step out from his claim of china, picks some other good asian nation and therefore we wouldn't be anymore having those strong emotional china discussions.
Or that us mentioned three can pick what we want and as asian players we do that china-figth in some outside arena and let the rest of you know what we have come up with.

If I would have been elected as GM, these issues wouldn't have been made artificially proplematic as they have been made by the two previous Game Masters[/rant]
 
Gentlemen, this is a CK thread, and meant for AARs not game development. We have a perfectly cromulent HoI discussion at Ederon; please take China, HoI, IC, and non-game personalities to there. :)
 
Sid, in honor of the release of your newest game, I think you should play as Sukothai - itself the newest addition to the countries listed in the Civilization games. Personally, I'm disappointed that the Mongols were not included, so I would suggest Dan play as the Mongol Khanate.

I added in Sukothai because fanboys wouldn't stop crying about it, so I made Babylon a dlc just to even the score.

KoM you actually suggesting we re-open the China discussion now or should we wait for Divine Wind expansion first and then re-open, or open the discussion now but have to keep in mind an elaborate if/then/else statement regarding what we hypothetically decide?
 
well let us pick our nations, and then we can make the china discussion behind the curtains and propose you (KoM) a workable outcome that all the asian players agree... It's a best bargain for this issue, a solem plea...
 
we have partioned and nerfed chinas in this game you know ;)
and as everyone else aside me and Blayne wants to silence these discussions, I think it would be just rigth if those who want to push them aside wouldn't need to bother about the details of such discussion.
 
well let us pick our nations, and then we can make the china discussion behind the curtains and propose you (KoM) a workable outcome that all the asian players agree... It's a best bargain for this issue, a solem plea...

Actually golle there IS a rough consensus agreed in principle by myself as well that a) China will be nerfed and b) made the same level as the other asian nations, I have thus far predominantly quibbled over some of the specifics that I felt made the situation far too restrictive, feeling that the best thing would be using Dano's scenario as the example eliminate Wu (the land locked one) shift Qin a bit north so it looks like 210 BC Qin Empire for aestetics, and then divide up the rest into AI's, Yoshi and Michael I have got to agree on having 2 AI's, one to buffer Tibet playable china faction from Qin and one to buffer it from Khmer/Indonesia.

This scenario still leaves the buffed up Mongol Khanate, Tibet, Japan and Khmer all wandering around and Manchuria is also slightely buffed (made the same culture as korea to make the area more attractive for either of the 3 north powers).

Also if I recall, each of them is technically religiously and culturally distinct with no cores on each other (though its blithingly easy to gain accepted cultures)

Me, Michael and OrangeYoshi(!) I got to agree to this, do you find any of the above objectionable golle?
 
The siege of Milan

April 6th 1170.
Sir Rüdger van Amstel, marshal of the Lotharingian army and knighted since many years, put the feather pen back into its quill. He’d just finished the weekly report to go north to Jülich. Now he just had to put this in a missive, seal it with the royal seal of the Marshal and then he’d be done with yet another report. He’d written a lot of those since this war began along with the battle reports. Rüdger had never been a man for writing and paperwork but he had little choice in the matter since it came with the prestigious office he bore. He sighed and rose from his creaky chair and walked slowly out of his tent for some fresh air. He was not a young man anymore and tired easily if he sat still for too long but his combat experience still made him a match against the most valiant foe even half his age. His camp, along with the other nobles and their squires, were located atop a small hill from where you had a splendid view of the field below and he stopped outside of his tent to enjoy it for a moment.
Below the hill laid the Imperial capital of Milan with its great city walls on a field that, in times of peace, should have been spring green by now. Instead it was muddy and filled with tents, men in battle garments and crude machines of war that had been built on the spot by builders led by the royal Master of Engineering of Jülich. All across the field flew the gold and azure banner with the black raven, the banner of the Goldstrands, along with a few banners of their bannermen. Rüdger lifted his eyes from his army and gazed upon the city itself. Milan was entering its fourth month under siege and a pillar of smoke rose from within the city walls. Being under siege for such a long time often made a city’s residents… restless. The city was almost ripe for scaling its great walls; it wouldn’t be long now until the Imperial capital with its great bureaucracy was under foreign occupation, its Kaiser captured and the raven banner flew atop its great castle. This would surely bring the Empire to the peace table, especially since word were coming up from the south that the Greeks had occupied almost all of the Imperial holdings on the Po plain south of Lombardy and the French and Moor were pushing in from the west.
As Rüdger stood there and lowered his eyes from the city’s grey walls, he spotted his young squire coming trotting towards him from the field below, his armour glinting in the midday sun. He reined in his brown courser next to Rüdger, his face beaming at the older man.
“A lone rider just rode out to us from the city gates, sire. He hailed our troops and demanded to be taken to the man in charge of the siege. I managed to get a quick look at him before I left for you and he matched the description of the imperial chancellor’s apprentice. He is being brought here by some of the troops as we speak.” said the younger man with the smile still on his face. He knew what that meant as well as Rüdger did.
“The Kaiser is suing for peace!" he responded with a laugh. “Quick now lad, get me some more paper and call for a swift messenger. We want to get word of this to the King as soon as possible after I’ve talked to this rider.”
"As you wish, sire." the young squire replied courtly, bowed and rode towards the tents of the other nobles.
Rüdger turned and walked back into his tent wearing a grin of satisfaction. This would probably be his last war and now, he thought, it was yet another victorious one.