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Thread: Children of the Fatherland: MP conversion game

  1. #581
    Captain Jakalo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Hey, hey, I offered you all those provs back for free two weeks ago and you rejected them! And started threatening me!




    Leaving your realm in the hands of the AI for more than 15 minutes and only having 5 vassals revolt counts is a good development
    I see 12, but nevermind =] imho in single player AI tends to manage their realms better.

    On the bright side at least I wont get excomunicated (only Realm duress, lol)

  2. #582
    Vogonian poet
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Our Poland player leaves us, prospective players sign up now! In one week it is declared AI and will be ripped to shreds by its neighbors
    This !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakalo View Post
    in single player AI tends to manage their realms better.
    Yes because player-designed vassal setup usually differs a lot from how the AI would do it and then it just can not manage the situation.
    If you set up your vassals similarly to how the AI would do it in the first place you should be more or less fine.

  3. #583
    Field Marshal von_Rundstedt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakalo View Post
    To say as much, I left Germany with money surplus, no rebelling vassals, honourable reputation and a wrap up war to claim 2 provinces in Spain belonging to Oddmans troublesome vassal.

    ...
    Say what? Your realm didn't collapse, you should be damn happy about it. It's a lot of fun to spend 4 sessions fixing your realm because it was AIed for 2 hours. (And SOMEONE stole half your vassals in the process!)

  4. #584
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty
    So you will spare the excom if you get a good chance to inherit the med isles into you realm eh? Do you intend to give the little bugger a title then?
    Would I do such a thing? :innocent:

    ...yes. Yes I would.

    But after all, just picture the scene: A five-year-old boy, all unaware that he is caught up in an intrigue of nations and emperors, suddenly frightened - perhaps at a meal; perhaps by someone he trusted and loved - by a dagger stroke, missing by inches, or perhaps not missing at all and leaving a disfiguring scar, merciful only in being less than fatal. Or poisoned food, fed perhaps by chance to a beloved dog which then dies in frothing convulsions... Truly, these are dark deeds. Is it not right that such a one should be comforted, taken to the City of Men's Desire for his own protection, honoured at court for his courage, given estates and loyal guards? "Even as you do unto the least of these little ones", said a man whom even Moslems honour as prophet, if not Messiah. I propose to do well by this one.
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  5. #585
    Field Marshal von_Rundstedt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Men View Post
    ...taken to the City of Men's Desire for his own protection...
    Alright, feel free to send him to Novgorod. He shall be safe there.

  6. #586
    Lt. General BlitzMartinDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by von_Rundstedt View Post
    Alright, feel free to send him to Novgorod. He shall be safe there.
    hehe..

  7. #587
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    *Checks his post*

    Yes, I did indeed write "City", and not "Three Filthy Huts and a Church", of Men's Desire. But it's easy to see how a barbarian from the uninhabited lands north of the Danube could make such a mistake. Just to let you know, in civilised lands not every crossroads with more than two shacks is called a city.
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  8. #588
    Field Marshal von_Rundstedt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Men View Post
    *Checks his post*

    Yes, I did indeed write "City", and not "Three Filthy Huts and a Church", of Men's Desire. But it's easy to see how a barbarian from the uninhabited lands north of the Danube could make such a mistake. Just to let you know, in civilised lands not every crossroads with more than two shacks is called a city.
    But a settlement with a soon to be finished HUGE CASTLE surely is, right?

    The only one in the entire world, I might add.

  9. #589
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by von_Rundstedt View Post
    But a settlement with a soon to be finished HUGE CASTLE surely is, right?

    The only one in the entire world, I might add.
    So the barbarians claim... No civilized man would however lower himself to travel to such a wretched land, and therefore it remains a unsubstantiated legend told by drunken fur traders. Who has ever heard of a Russian engineer anyway?

    But after all, just picture the scene
    All conspiracy and lies! Clearly this is all a false plot committed by Byzantine agents to rouse the Caliphates greek subjects into unlawful rebellion and fabric a causus belli to war upon the Caliphate in assort with the Persians! Why else has the Byzantines put themselves in official cahoots with the apostates in Baghdad?
    Last edited by FrozenWall; 10-10-2010 at 22:44.
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  10. #590


    Rise and Fall of the Fatherland Part 2:

    What determines the rise and fall of empires? A complex question arising in the minds of politicians, sociologists, historians and 16 year olds with an ethernet connection and too much time on their hands alike. From the dawn of recorded history until now history has recorded the rise, growth, prosperity, expansion, stagnation, decline, retraction and collapse of countless empires. They were of varies sizes, strengths, and makeouts with seemingly the only common thread being that they all existed and for a time prospered and then eventually collapsed. History is like a glacier, slow, steady, ruthless, eventually all historical events are smoothed out flat before the inevitable onslaught of the march of time and with that hindsight, with that record beautifully preserved we are given the gift of hindsight that we can use to make our arcane predictions of the future. Now the stage is set, the actors are upon the stage and the curtains drawn the year is 1170 of the Common Era allowing us to behold the wartorn and divided continent of Europa. Within Europe are hundreds of theifdoms each one pledging loyalty to a lord who in turn pledges his loyalty and support to a even more powerful lord, who would support someone more powerful if the CK engine allowed for Emperor titles. Europe is a sad site, it's been nearly 800 years since the collapse of the great Roman Empire, the greatest military machine the world has ever known, its empire stretching over a million square miles and had conquered more lands and peoples in its history then any other force on earth ever has but Rome, the Eternal City has fallen, the last Emperor Romulus Augustus long since dead, Imperial authority disintigrated, and barbarians of all stripes having migrated, pillaged, and invaded their way across the former empire settling in places that will become the nations now known to us and setting the current stage of conflict.

    The spread of Christianity, once one of the causes of Rome's fall was not without its own schisms, Islam, the religion of peace and submission to Allah the One God under the guidance of its Prophet Muhammad spread like wildfire from its humble origins in Mecca and Medina across much of the world of Alexander, spreading all the way to Spain and southern France before being checked and driven back at Lyons in the West and at Constantinople in the East where unable to expand further the Caliphate split between the Shiite and Sunni, those who felt descendants of Muhammed should become Caliph and those who felt anyone of sufficient piety and merit should ascend. With Rome's successor state, the Byzantine empire besieged Christendom mobilized, armies raised, interests and personalities clashed and they would fight each other as often as they fought the Islamic threat.

    In our last meeting we had discussed and speculated upon the main players of this age, examined their strengths pointed out possible weaknesses and using our experience tried to predict their stars, as of now a certain amount of time has assuredly passed and while the resources, technologies, lands, and thinkers not yet exist for us in which these predictions to show their full relevance let us see how well we have done and how much we need to adjust for changing and unpredictable quantum circumstances.

    1. Persia, last time we had declared that they were an empire "beset on all sides", Russia to the north, Byzantium to the northwest, and Egypt to the West and Southwestm and so far aside for a few modifications the situation hasn't changed, Persia has been significantly reduced in influence in the middle east, and what is worse is that Byzantium's destiny is now fully controled by King of Men instead of merely being one Baron of many, Egypt has fullly consolidated the Levant under their control and Russia is more powerful now than ever before, isolated with few friends in a position to help the Persians.

    But Persia is not without some advantages, they appear to have finally settled the border with Russia in their favor establishing it firmly between Chechnya in Russia and Armenia in Persia, good relations with Russia could be the key to gaining/reclaiming influence in the middle east, and by being on the periphery has immediate access to expansion routes into Central Asia and India, routes that Egypt and Byzantium would have likely give u up on.

    2. Egypt's position has remarkably improved since our last visit, while the strategic dilemna of having a large and mostly permeable coastline remain they're helped that via consolidated their position in the Levant, and their keen grasp on Spain either as an ally, protectorate or a vassal means that from the Atlantic to the Red Sea and the Eastern Mediteranium Egypt is a power not to be underestimate, it's size, manpower and wealth give it considerable power to defend its lands. In EU3 this gives them the almost assured ability to colonize and expand into Africa and lay claim to its gold mines, slave trade, ivory and expansive hinterlands to colonize into without interfearance.

    But Egypts problems will however remains acute if hidden, the more of Africa they expand into will mean a much more complicated defense, their exposed north means they will need to maintain significant investments either diplomatically or militarily with a brownwater navy to defend independantly their many flanks.

    3. byzantium: Their position now with a player at the helm has improved, their war against Crotia secured significant non trivial buffer in the Balkans though possibly at the cost of gaining the attention of Russia and with their border with Egypt to all appearances secured and their contributions to the Anti-German war noticed by the world Byzantium is in a good position to bide its time and expand wherever it needs to, and are in a commanding position in the med.

    They are however not without cripplingly obvious weaknesses, Russia to their north is a behemoth to which every sneeze is an earthquake noticed in Constantinople severly limiting their actions. Croatia while defeated for now has more than doubled its size thanks to Russian intervention at the expense of Hungary and it is unlikely Byzantium could expand further at their expense further displaying the cramped cicumstances Byzantium finds itself in, without anywhere to expand into easily only a slow downward slope towards irrelevance remains unless they can find someway to expand at the expense of one or two of its neighbours, but such actions would certainly attract much unwanted attention and much careful diplomacy, is Byzantium up to the task to forge its destiny?

    4. Poland: Poland made great strides in the last decade through acquiring Silesia and parts of Bohemia, which if it could acquire the remainder of would gaurante Poland significant reserves of coal and pig iron for future industrialization.

    Alas the diplomatic front looks no better, Denmark, Germany, South Germany, Croatia, and Russia all border Poland, requiring an even more skillful oppurtunistic level of diplomacy to expand and prosper, luckily this goes both ways as it only takes bad or reckless diplomacy of one of Polands neighbours to give them the advantage, just as with Byz Russia is a direct neighbour and without allies in the west Poland is almost certainly within Russia's sphere and anything Poland does almost certainly needs the indirect or direct approval of the Kremlin. While the idea of a "poor freightened poland" currying favor and aid from the west could work in a bid to expand into Belarus its almost a deathwish should it fail, leaving poland realistically only able to expand on the bones of the enemies of the Rus, the Keys to greatness are nearly out of reach but are they imposibly so?

    5. Denmark: Denmark has virtually in a single stroke assured its place in history with the acquisition of England, Wales, and Scotland, giving them the keen edge in any future colonial race for the new world, providing the wealth in agriculture, in coal and iron. While Russia borders them in the far north in scandinavia the difficult terrain would make any attack costly, making it in the interest of them to maintain cordial relations. Denmark also has a foothold in northern Germany which could in theory open up the Rhine and its wealth though competition from the current German major nation will make this unlikely, in fact Denmark is blssed that by having this foothold, even if it grows incresingly expensive to maintain, keeping it doesnt particularily help Denmark, allowing to possible cede unneeded mainland european lands to focus more on maritime developments.

    Diplomatically Denmark by being in the periphery can hold its own with only fairly modest diplomacy. Open access to the north sea and ample coastline would give them a moderate navy, with sufficient trade and income it shouldnt be impossible for denmark to rule the waves...

    6. Toledo: A new comer onto the scene, this bustling vassal of Egypt with its easy access to the atlantic, its decent size and considerable support from Egypt could in time easily become a maritime power to be reckoned with.

    Their disadvantages thus far is that South Germany is fairly powerful, and you never know just how tight the leesh from Egypt may be, and any major colonial venture will surely find competition at some point with Denmark, forcing it to have to answer the age old question of whether it can be a hybdrid land and sea power or if it has to focus on only one or the other.

    7. Germany (Hannover): Unquestionably the most powerful Western European nation, its position along the rhine gives it considerable future industrial potential, spanning the rhine to the Oder gives them considerable population and manpower, while for sure it has the diplomatic challenged of being bordered on all sides it also has the advantage that it has far greater resources to call upon then either Poland or Byzantium.

    8. Croatia: Mauled from its conflict with Byzantium has left it in bad straights, but luckily its acquisition of Hungary, the seeming willing support of Russia, and its central position in European politics gives it influence and potential it might not otherwise have had, while it is doubtful that Croatia will have the resources as it stands now to truly enter European politics as an equal, with skill and some luck, especially if it can acquire the remainder of Austria from South Germany Croatia has alot of potential indeed.

    9. Russia: The biggest winner thus far, huge with vast swaths of land stretching from the Baltic Sea to Central Asia, possessing absolutely huge amounts of people, with vast potential, play their cards right and Russia's greatness is assured, with the vast empty tracks of Siberia open to settlement, nothing is impossible with even moderate skill.
    He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.
    -Sun Tzu, the Art of War

  11. #591
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    In case any peanuts missed it: Our Poland player has unfortunately had to drop, leaving the position open. Anyone want to play?
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  12. #592
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    Russia will continue to support Poland, if anyone's worried about that small red dot to the east.

  13. #593
    Vogonian poet
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    Quote Originally Posted by von_Rundstedt View Post
    Russia will continue to support Poland, if anyone's worried about that small red dot to the east.
    In fact when I asked von_R at Ederon whether he would make Poland more attractive by giving it some border kingdoms he didn´t deny that request at all but was rather open to it and just asked for clarification which kingdoms I meant.
    It is still subject to some negotiations but I am quite confident the new Poland would look something like this:



    And it´s up for grabs folks !

  14. #594
    Colonel Kuipy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Meier View Post
    2. Egypt's position has remarkably improved since our last visit, while the strategic dilemna of having a large and mostly permeable coastline remain they're helped that via consolidated their position in the Levant, and their keen grasp on Spain either as an ally, protectorate or a vassal means that from the Atlantic to the Red Sea and the Eastern Mediteranium Egypt is a power not to be underestimate, it's size, manpower and wealth give it considerable power to defend its lands. In EU3 this gives them the almost assured ability to colonize and expand into Africa and lay claim to its gold mines, slave trade, ivory and expansive hinterlands to colonize into without interfearance.

    But Egypts problems will however remains acute if hidden, the more of Africa they expand into will mean a much more complicated defense, their exposed north means they will need to maintain significant investments either diplomatically or militarily with a brownwater navy to defend independantly their many flanks.
    If memory serves the last player who worked himself in the same position was disappointed when EU3 came... then when Victoria came... then when HOI came... Africa is worthless.
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  15. #595
    Yours is no Disgrace Gollevainen's Avatar
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    I think the Kingdom titles offered to Poland included that of Denmark, Sweden, Lothingar mostly.
    Last edited by Gollevainen; 11-10-2010 at 15:31.
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  16. #596
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuipy View Post
    If memory serves the last player who worked himself in the same position was disappointed when EU3 came... then when Victoria came... then when HOI came... Africa is worthless.
    You have some brilliant plan for getting myself into a better position without annexing another player then?
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  17. #597
    Comrade Uzkiye Bryuki Emperor Ike's Avatar
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  18. #598
    Yours is no Disgrace Gollevainen's Avatar
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    supposedly something to aling our baseless and degatory fame as the world leading assasination command.
    which naturally is not true, we just focus on finding ways to the beds of our relatives

    And Ike, Polland needs you. It needs you badly...
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  19. #599
    Comrade Uzkiye Bryuki Emperor Ike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    supposedly something to aling our baseless and degatory fame as the world leading assasination command.
    which naturally is not true, we just focus on finding ways to the beds of our relatives

    And Ike, Polland needs you. It needs you badly...
    If that word is "ravenous" i can see how it fits the food thingies of Finland?

    And how did Poland come in to this? Did you heard that i got out?
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  20. #600
    Field Marshal von_Rundstedt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolibri View Post
    In fact when I asked von_R at Ederon whether he would make Poland more attractive by giving it some border kingdoms he didn´t deny that request at all but was rather open to it and just asked for clarification which kingdoms I meant.
    It is still subject to some negotiations but I am quite confident the new Poland would look something like this:

    And it´s up for grabs folks !
    Considering that I've paid for Polands numerous debts, "convinced" Germany to let him keep Bohemia, saved him when he was about the be annexed by his vassals in a civil war and guaranteed its very existance against the greedy lords of Lotharingia and Denmark, I think I've done more than enough for the Poles.

    Maybe granting Poland the rest of Bohemia/Slovakia, or parts of Brandenburg would be more appropriate? I can send a few men to convince you of the righteousness of this deed.

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