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Thread: Children of the Fatherland: MP conversion game

  1. #2781
    Comrade Uzkiye Bryuki Emperor Ike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    In other news:

    Italy's neighbours scramble to do divide ts:he boot-loot! Byzantium and France are left out!
    Well i understand why Byzantium is left out but France? I bet they wont take this insult slightly.
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  2. #2782
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Ike View Post
    Well i understand why Byzantium is left out but France? I bet they wont take this insult slightly.
    Maybe the fact that they don't have a player?
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  3. #2783
    Comrade Uzkiye Bryuki Emperor Ike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeYoshi View Post
    Maybe the fact that they don't have a player?
    A new France perm is joining us tomorrow.
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  4. #2784
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Ike View Post
    A new France perm is joining us tomorrow.
    I'm aware of that, yes.

    This does throw a wrench into the Italian paritition plans, though.
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  5. #2785
    Comrade Uzkiye Bryuki Emperor Ike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeYoshi View Post
    I'm aware of that, yes.

    This does throw a wrench into the Italian paritition plans, though.
    Oh it does indeed, it does indeed and i don't think that France will like your plans.
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  6. #2786
    Not a necromancer, no sir! Foelsgaard's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Ike View Post
    Oh it does indeed, it does indeed and i don't think that France will like your plans.
    Unfortunately. France seems to be lacking an army lately.
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  7. #2787
    Comrade Uzkiye Bryuki Emperor Ike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foelsgaard View Post
    Unfortunately. France seems to be lacking an army lately.
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  8. #2788
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    Neustrian Agression!

    Caliphate supports the Iberians marching on Anjou!
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  9. #2789
    Comrade Uzkiye Bryuki Emperor Ike's Avatar
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    Dans les tours de Notre-Dame





    It was a rainy day when Bronski Tilius arrived to Paris. Actually it had been raining for his whole journey from Novgorod to Paris and he was wet as a rat. Things hadn't gone as planned for the Tilius dynasty, to be honest everything had gone wrong. First they were supposed to rule Finland but Jakub Tilius had died before he could take up the throne of Finland and the deal had been broken. Then the Arab Tzar of All the Russias had contacted them and offered them a place in the court, Tilius dynasty had accepted this. Sadly they didn't knew that they would face war soon enough. The warmongering Persians declared war upon Russia only three months after the Bronski had arrived to Novgorod with his family.

    Bronski's brothers were sent to repel the Persian invaders in the Caucasus region and Bronski himself staid in Novgorod and acted as the Chancellor of Russia. He contacted the Neustrian King in order to receive arms and men to fight for the Russian Tzar who had left the royal palace to fight the Persians. To Bronski's luck the Neustrian king was kind enough to send his armies to the Caucasus and help in the fight against Persia. Bronski soon realized that the Neustrian help was not enough and when he heard that Persians had made an huge progress against the Russian armies, he decided to contact the Nordic Empire. The relationship between Russia and the Nordic Empire weren't the best but Bronski managed to speak the Nordic Emperor to his side and soon the Nordic armies marched to defeat the Persians.

    While the French were fighting against the Persians in the south Nordic forces marched from the north together with the Russian reinforcements and defeated the Persian armies there and liberated the northern lands. Their victories continued when they moved south but the Persians were all ready massing an grand assault against the Neustrian armies in Azov. The orders of the Tzar were clear, every able bodied man were to take up arms and ride to the front and fight against the Persian invaders. Many men obeyed this order but some rebelled against the Tzar which caused problems on the homefront. Bronski tried to negotiate with the rebels but they refused to listen and soon armies were pulled from the front to defeat the rebels and to show them their places. Bronski soon realized that this war could not be win and the chances for successfully defending the Russian lands were small. He heard rumors that his brothers had escaped the front and were returning to Novgorod to flee the country. Then it happened the Nordic Empire signed a separate peace with the infidels and their armies returned home. The Russians and French were left to fight against the Persian, alone and hungry.

    The Tzar of All the Russias Ackbar soon signed a peace with the Persians giving up more land in the Caucasus and signed an Non Aggression Pact with the Persian Empire. When the Tzar returned to Novgorod his first orders were to capture the Tilius and execute them. Bronski managed to hear about this and tried to warn his family but he was too late, the Tzars men found them first. Bronskis's only hope was to flee Russia as far as he could. He decided to flee to France and seek refuge in the Neustrian court. So now he was in Paris, the capital city of the Neustria. Maybe here he could find a place for himself and make the Tilius dynasty known again. He approached the Royal Palace to seek audience with the King.
    Last edited by Emperor Ike; 11-03-2011 at 20:37.
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  10. #2790
    Mostly Harmless oddman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Neustrian Agression!

    Caliphate supports the Iberians marching on Anjou!
    Iberians all over, well, Iberia, rejoice! Also, those Iberians support Arabs (and Croats) marching on Italy!

  11. #2791
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    The Reforms of Mathias

    Although the successors of Konstantinos lacked his military genius, they were not short on necessary tasks. A generation of raid and razzia across the Black Sea had left northern Anatolia in disarray; even apart from the burned estates and abandoned fields, the newly militarised village cooperatives resented paying taxes to support the regulars who had not protected them, and had the means to make their displeasure felt. What was more, they had considerable support among the senatorial class. Many great families who had lost power and influence over the last century rallied to the cause of the peasants as a convenient stick to beat the Komnenoi with. Among the Komnenoi themselves, the poorer branches also tended to support the demand for lower taxation, whether from motives of nobless oblige (and there is much evidence that this was a real force in senatorial circles), or as an intra-familial power play.

    The upper ranks of the Komnenoi, the strategoi of the themes and the great officers of the court at Constantinople, were perhaps not unsympathetic to demands for reform; but they faced the stark reality that, whatever its efficiency against raids, the regular army was needed to hold the border against Croatian hill-tribes and Russian boyars. They also pointed out, with some justice, that with the conquest of the Crimea, the Cossack problem was well under control, and that the village militias had not contributed to the victory of the Ingulets.

    A second thread was the unintended effects of importing half a Cossack host. Konstantinos had intended to weld together Roman discipline with Cossack light-cavalry skills to create an unstoppable force, and as long as he was in command, the combination did indeed defeat all comers. But the Cossacks could not be kept mobilised forever. Konstantinos had made provision for the military problems he foresaw with this, by ensuring that the Cossacks were given land near the base areas of powerful Roman units; but he had not foreseen how their egalitarian, all-adult-males democracy would spread and subvert the traditional patron/client relationships of Roman land-ownership.

    The Komnenoi elite, then, were caught between two fires: On the one hand the peasants of Anatolia demanded lower taxes, which would cripple the army. On the other hand the peasants of the Balkans demanded local representation and restrictions on absentee landlords, which would limit the wealth (which came partly from rents, but also from patronage and influence, or in other words, exactly that corruption and abuse the villages wanted curbed) of the senatorial class, who might own as many as a hundred estates spread over multiple themes.

    To point out that there was unrest and agitation, of course, is not to say that the Roman state was doomed to either reform or collapse. The army remained loyal, and the mob of Constantinople (who were, it is worth noting, the second-greatest beneficiary of the imperial Fisc, which paid for most of their grain) were not much affected by the troubles, which remained largely rural. Mathias might have turned to the army, or even to the Cossacks, and restored order by fire and sword; it is not as though the unrest ever approached the level of the Byzantine civil disorders of the early twelfth century, with half of the nominally Imperial territory in open revolt against the Dukas dynasty. Why then did he not do so?

    The answer appears to be that great strength of the Roman state, the ideal-of-service of its upper classes. It is true that the senatorial class took bribes, treated the offices of the State as private property to be handed out in exchange for favours, extorted extra-legal contributions from their tenants, and demanded respect and subservience as their natural right. But they also thought of the long term, and genuinely believed in the cause of civilisation against barbarism, identified with the cause of Rome as against all other polities. Fundamentally, the Mathian Reforms came about because Mathias and his advisors thought the agitators had a point. They therefore chose to emphasize the legal forms of pressure, consisting basically of petitions that the emperor Do Something about this or that local abuse, over the extralegal forms such as villa-burnings and tax-collector sniping. (This is not to say that such acts were not punished, sometimes quite harshly; only that Constantinople decided that they were isolated acts of banditry, to be dealt with locally, rather than incidents in a countrywide rebellion, for which the army should be called in.)

    The Komnenos Restoration had covered a military coup in the midst of crisis with the legal figleaf of restoring the Senate's power to elect the Emperor as first among equals. In practice this did not interfere with the dynastic principle, since the Komnenoi could rely on having a majority of the Senate seats. Similarly, the Mathian Reforms found legal cover by 'reaffirming' the right of Roman citizens to have a voice in local affairs. In reality no such right had ever existed for tenants, and small landowners had effectively lost it even before the end of the Republic. If anything, a true restoration of ancient rights should rather have made the consulships (a minor honour, not given every year and fully in the Emperor's gift) elective and given the mob of Constantinople (or at a minimum, the Senate) the right to declare war and peace. Instead, Mathias regularised the forms of tenantry all across the empire, gave villages the right of veto over stewards of their landlord, and required stewards to live in the villages they ostensibly managed - absentee stewards being a much-reviled abuse. Further, he cracked down on bribes and nepotism in the civil service, for example by requiring bureaucrats (and clergy) to demonstrate basic literacy, and by instituting harsh penalties for obvious incompetence. Finally, he secured the consent of the great families (including of course the Komnenoi) who had profited from corruption by having the Senate meet rubber-stamp his decrees. Since this was the first time in several hundred years that the Senate had met for a purpose other than electing a new Emperor, this was considered a notable concession, even if purely ceremonial - the Senate was summoned to "advise and consent", not to deliberate or to decree. The senatorial class were mollified all the same by the consideration shown to their dignity; and, as noted, many of them supported the reforms in the first place.

    Notably absent from the Mathian Reforms is any mention whatsoever of lightening the tax burden. A common joke at the time has one of Mathias's advisors pointing out that he was spending ducats by the tens of thousands on fortresses, roads, and soldiers, and not a penny on the poor; to which Mathias replies, "That's right. When the revolution comes, I'll be ready." Jokes aside, on this point the Komnenoi were utterly inflexible: The taxes that paid for the army would not be compromised whatsoever. Justice for tenants and smallholders was one thing; weakening the legions that held back barbarism, quite another. Indeed, the real tax level was actually increased, since the cessation of the Cossack raids made it unnecessary to forgive the taxes of devastated Anatolian estates - a common expedient for relief during the 1290s. However, walled or fortified villages, castellae, were permitted to pay their taxes in kind, by equipping one heavy-infantry soldier for every ten households. Again, heavy-infantry gear being very expensive (especially since most of it was produced by the State-owned forges of Constantinople), this was probably a net increase in taxes for most peasants. But serving in the army was a point of pride for many Anatolians, and equipping one's own sons for war did not engender the same feeling of resentment as sending off grain to be eaten by strangers, even if it was actually a greater slice of the household budget. Mathias thus gained heavy infantry who had trained with village militias from an early age, and who were often actually better equipped than the mandated minimums; and he did so at no cost in goodwill, even with a small gain. Although not a military genius of the calibre of Konstaninos, then, he well deserves his reputation and epithet of Mathias the Lawgiver.

    Note: To have an ingame effect of this AAR development, I'm switching to Popular Law. This has the nice side effect of switching my Clergy light infantry to light cavalry, reflecting the addition of the Cossacks to the Roman army.
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  12. #2792
    He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.
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  13. #2793
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    I lost track of time watching Downfall, so I'm just going to do a moderately brief history of the game for my 500 words. Paragraphs broken up as Constantinople changes hands between KoM and myself..

    I enter in 1150. Most nations are already formed. Croatia is still a very small AI state. I take over it. KoM (Bulgaria) states he wants to recreate the borders of Junstinian's Empire. Sadly, those borders contain Croatian lands! I decide I'll get him before he gets me. vR helps me take over Hungary in my first session. He then hands over all South Slavic lands to me. Fasq (Germany/Italy) takes Constantinople off of the AI just before KoM becomes King of Bulgaria. In return for various things, he gives it to me.

    KoM is pissed. He DoWs me. Defensive pacts with Russia and Egypt save me. Fast forward a few years, and Egypt and KoM have a NAP, and vR and KoM have a NAP because they were just in a separate war. Fasq is uninterested in helping me, so this time when KoM DoWs, I have no friends.

    Things are quiet for many years. Fasq leaves Germany, Jakalo joins as Germany. Jakalo is mysterious. There are many wars between Jakalo and Egypt. There's also several Russian gangbangs I refuse to take part in. Orago leaves Poland, Ike joins as Poland. KoM is assassinated off his throne, I take Constantinople.

    KoM takes it back.

    Cypriot assassin wars.

    Another gangbang on Russia.

    Ike joins in against Russia in yet another gangbang. I lose trust in Ike. I annex Poland. I take some land off of KoM during a couple more wars. For the last 40 years, he's been slowly taking it back... and then some. vR leaves. I plan to get Kiev off of Russia. Ike agrees. Jakalo leaves. I plan on partitioning Italy. Russia refuses to give Kiev after the Italy partition planning. I agree. vR comes back. KoM finds some mysterious person to come back and sub Italy for a session. I cry in my glass.

    The future is yet to be written.
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  14. #2794
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    and then some
    I must point out that at the height of my power in the Balkans, I held Split. And the Black Sea Coast used to include Turnu. The current Danube-ish border does not qualify as "and then some".
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  15. #2795
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Men View Post
    I must point out that at the height of my power in the Balkans, I held Split. And the Black Sea Coast used to include Turnu. The current Danube-ish border does not qualify as "and then some".
    I'd say about 6 provinces which used to be mine that you have taken qualify as "and then some".
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  16. #2796
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    And there was much carrion upon Italy. KoMs wife will not be playing with us again any time soon.
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  17. #2797
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    Not when I held them first! And especially not when you still hold provinces that were mine before they were yours!
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  18. #2798
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Men View Post
    Not when I held them first! And especially not when you still hold provinces that were mine before they were yours!
    Nikopolis much?

    Also, you went and stole provinces from my armies in Italy. You deserve nothing but Armenia.
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  19. #2799
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    KoM proceeds to outright steal vassals. When I threaten to call in my defensive alliances, he gives them back rather quietly.
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  20. #2800
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    Nikopolis was mine originally. Also, you force-vassalised the guy (in defiance of the rules), at which point I just couldn't be bothered. It had nothing to do with your threats.

    As for 'stealing' provinces in Italy, if you want me to accept you expanding without me being compensated, DOW. The W in DOW does not stand for 'Whine', you know.
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