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Thread: Children of the Fatherland: MP conversion game

  1. #521
    Lt. General BlitzMartinDK's Avatar
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    welll. keeping a strong- but weaker than you and Russia- player between yourself and the new "Bund" of Three Northern Players..Keeping yourself and Russia as those with the better starting position for the next part of the great game..Strenghtening your (hopefully) loyal partner, Toledo (allthough I agree about the previus deal thingy)..You MIGHT have other, more nefarius schemes, but I can't think of any right now..

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    What then is my devious plan? What do I stand to gain from this appart from the common goals of balance?
    You, and Russia, gain from establishing the precedent that nations in a civil war should not be attacked, or gangbanged, and that vassal sniping is equivalent to war. Both of these hurt large nations, such as you and Russia, far more then small nations, such as Lotharingia.

    You gain a close friend and possible ally out of Rome while strengthening him and weakening his largest enemy, Lotharingia.

    Your close friend and current vassal doubles his territory, before you turn over any land.

  3. #523
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    the new "Bund"
    There was no organized coalition, more of a bandwagon effect when they realized Germany had no armies...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thlawrence View Post
    You, and Russia, gain from establishing the precedent that nations in a civil war should not be attacked, or gangbanged, and that vassal sniping is equivalent to war. Both of these hurt large nations, such as you and Russia, far more then small nations, such as Lotharingia.

    You gain a close friend and possible ally out of Rome while strengthening him and weakening his largest enemy, Lotharingia.

    Your close friend and current vassal doubles his territory, before you turn over any land.
    Pff, thats not devious. Saying gangbangs are not cool applies to everyone. (And sure you can snipe vassals, I just object to the level of it.) If i were devious I would want a weak buffer Germany wholly reliant on me for protection, not one strong enough for independent action. In addition I would be divvying up Persia and Byzantion with Russia while everybody else is occupied elsewhere, something that would bring substantial tangible benefit to me.

    If I was bloody devious I wouldn't be aiming for some flimsy-flamsy good will! But I am not out to gain only for my own good, I am looking out for the overall balance of the game and curtailing overzealous expansionism at the expense of a player who wasn't there to defend himself. I don't consider myself some "white knight" for it, but the people painting Hitler mustaches on my avatar are taking it a bit to far.
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  4. #524
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    There was no organized coalition, more of a bandwagon effect when they realized Germany had no armies...
    This is untrue, at least for me. I had no idea Germany was so weak; attacking the center of his power in northern Italy, I expected a pretty stiff fight. My strategy was basically to keep his demesne troops busy and wait for fifty thousand howling Vikings to come rescue me. Nobody was more surprised than I when there wasn't a Goth to be seen and the Po plain fell without a blow struck.
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  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenWall View Post
    Pff, thats not devious. Saying gangbangs are not cool applies to everyone. (And sure you can snipe vassals, I just object to the level of it.) If i were devious I would want a weak buffer Germany wholly reliant on me for protection, not one strong enough for independent action. In addition I would be divvying up Persia and Byzantion with Russia while everybody else is occupied elsewhere, something that would bring substantial tangible benefit to me.
    No one likes a gangbang but it is often the only way to beat some of the largest powers and a gangbang during a civil war is often the only way to ensure that the other big powers don't have time to come in and stop it. Excessive demands are a problem, as you have stated, however the only 2 powers with large demands seem to be Toledo and Lotharingia and both have rather good reasons. Ignoring Toledo for now, Lotharingia made his gains via vassal sniping when a, reportedly unstable state was in a civil war.

    A civil war is supposed to represent your vassals fleeing, if they don't flee to another power then you would be able to reintegrate them and the civil war would have no meaning. Admittedly his sniping was probably a little excessive but his proposed gains from the war are merely a reorganization of the current situation, very little power changes hands.

    A weak Germany would be a drain on you resources as it would have to be defended from any individual power while a medium power Germany surrounded by hostile powers, such as in the Fiat, would still be dependent on you for protection from inevitable gangbangs but be able to defend itself from a single power and be able to help in your wars.

    As you stated before there is a large difference between taking 10 provinces from Russia and taking 10 from Poland. Partitioning Byzantium and Persia would accumulate enormous human BB, put a large expanding Russia on your doorstep and I'm fairly certain that KoM wouldn't go down without several people falling on their knives.

  6. #526
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    Next comments that will follow:
    "But we are only demanding so little"
    "But when I started it I didn't know he was going to do it too."
    "But you brougth it to this"
    "But we were in our rigths."
    "They did it too!"

    10 points and the parrot stamp to the one who can connect correct line to rigth gangbanger....
    We have a few winners so far...
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  7. #527
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thlawrence View Post
    No one likes a gangbang
    In fact, science has proven that four out of five participants enjoy a gangbang.
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  8. #528
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    POTM, gotta be.
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  9. #529
    Mostly Harmless oddman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thlawrence View Post
    Your close friend and current vassal doubles his territory, before you turn over any land.
    Said vassal and close friend must object to this: he does in fact lose some quite valuable territory in Al-Andalus himself.

  10. #530
    Mostly Harmless oddman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    "But we are only demanding so little"
    Denmark.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    "But when I started it I didn't know he was going to do it too."
    Lotharingia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    "But you brougth it to this"
    Greece.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    "But we were in our rigths."
    Yours truly ^_^;
    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    "They did it too!"
    France.

    Possibly exchange Greece and France.

  11. #531
    Mostly Harmless oddman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Men View Post
    In fact, science has proven that four out of five participants enjoy a gangbang.
    Five out of six, rather.

  12. #532
    Lt. General BlitzMartinDK's Avatar
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    So, any news on what the perm player has to say about all this?

  13. #533
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzMartinDK View Post
    So, any news on what the perm player has to say about all this?
    He's still AWOL.
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  14. #534
    Field Marshal von_Rundstedt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thlawrence View Post
    A civil war is supposed to represent your vassals fleeing, if they don't flee to another power then you would be able to reintegrate them and the civil war would have no meaning. Admittedly his sniping was probably a little excessive but his proposed gains from the war are merely a reorganization of the current situation, very little power changes hands.


    As you stated before there is a large difference between taking 10 provinces from Russia and taking 10 from Poland. Partitioning Byzantium and Persia would accumulate enormous human BB, put a large expanding Russia on your doorstep and I'm fairly certain that KoM wouldn't go down without several people falling on their knives.

    A civil war is not supposed to represent that your vassals flee - a civil war is a war within the realm, supposed to represent that atleast one vassal wants to rule the realm by himself, challenging you for the throne. It weakens you in two ways; it forces you to commit troops to put down the rebellion, and it takes away the troops of said vassal for your own wars. (Not to mention the realm duress which can cripple you quite badly)

    I don't think the intention of it is to make a Duke in Italy pledge to the Kingdom of Lotharingia, or counts in northern Russia pledge to the Kingdom of Persia.

    Regardless. As Frosty has stated, the sniping isn't the problem, although I don't approve of it. The problem is gaining huge amounts of territory in such a short time from another player, and it doesn't matter wheter one did it with war or "vassal sniping". See the Fiat as an expression of our concern about balance of power changing drastically in central Europe. You state it yourself, human bb causes trouble: Fivoin got too much human bb from his actions against Rome. Time to set things straight again. He'll get to keep a big amount of the land he gained, he should be happy.


    Both me and Frosty have been helping other players in the past, because we were lucky (in my case) or smart enough (Frosty?) to gain much power in a short amount of time. This is nothing else. Selfless help to restore balance and make the game more enjoyable for everyone!

  15. #535
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    @oddman: Your guess on Gollevainen´s game is quite off. You can for example not connect the line "But when I started it I didn't know he was going to do it too." to the fourth/fifth person dowing.

    I hope the following AAR is not too bandwidth heavy, it is about two sessions and hence almost two megabytes in size.
    Any visitors to this thread who have a problem with this please feel free to leave a comment or PM me and I´ll try hard to make my AARs smaller in size in the future.

  16. #536
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    The Knautschlings - part 12

    Something resembling war




    With the De Flandre-Knautschling agreement signed political affairs become less urgent and Faste
    has time to find some handsome fellow for Sofia to marry in the neighboring Kingdom of Poland.



    Exactly one day after the marriage Sofia becomes pregnant already, obviously sharing Faste´s
    passion for certain activities.



    Oh my Faste why are you embarrassing me like that ? My readers must think I am stupid.
    Sofia´s younger sister Gunhild which we have so far talked little about suddenly overtakes Sofia
    in importance as she gets married to the future King of Loire, further strengthening the bond
    between the Knautschlings and the De Flandres and soon beginning her duty to provide heirs.



    While poor Sofia dies in Poland at age 25 some relative of Faste manages to become the pope,
    what an honor for the Knautschling dynasty !



    Changing the topic back to politics again some unimportant county in the middle of Danish Britain
    will set off a chain of events with huge impact on all of western europe.
    The county pledging to a different liege is something Faste does not let go unpunished and he declares war.



    But the new liege does in fact show willingness to defend it as is shown in the following historical document
    which also show the unimportant county itself which Faste does not even know the name of.



    Now that Denmark is already at war with Bavaria or Gothia as it calls itself he decides to also
    protect the Viking minority living in Brandenburg by integrating that province into Denmark proper.
    Brandenburg was Gothia´s vassal shortly before the war but managed to break free and is now independent.
    With Danish troops closing in the local Duke seeks protection by yet another liege in an impressive display of
    cunning. He also tries to bribe off Faste in an impressive display of desparation.



    But the Goldstrands in Lotharingia do nothing besides sending a formal protest signed by their king
    while some Danish troops march south in order to convince Gothia to accept Faste as new ruler of Brandenburg.



    But the expeditionary force led by Faste himself is soon facing insurmountable odds against an unusually
    strong concentration of force in Fürstenberg.



    Naturally Faste only orders the retreat when almost every single one of his men is dead.
    While the pathetic Gothian expeditionary troops on the British isles are slaughtered mercilessly by Danish soldiers



    A not so pathetic expeditionary force attacks Brandenburg.
    The resident Viking minority launches an attack shortly before the Gothian siege is complete



    but can not resist the superior numbers of the enemy.



    Faste is furious, gathers some more troops,



    frees Brandenburg and marches south once more. At this point it is to note that the skirmishes described in this tale are
    not any longer Gothia´s biggest problem no matter how fearsome the Danish army might be.
    Because by now Byzantion is attacking Gothia in full force in the south and Loire is attacking in the west,
    but Danish historians are unsure as to the scale of the De Flandre attack.
    What is known is that troops from Danish Britain join Gunhild´s husband Raoul who was in the meantime crowned king
    for an impressive battle in Foix.







    The second battle in the area however did unfortunately end with the slaughtering of all Danish war painters hence I
    can not show you any more historical documents about the course of war in that region.
    This chapter of the Knautschling tale ends here. The following events how Lotharingia and Toledo join the war
    and how Russia and Egypt come into the equation, these events my dear reader will be told by different narrators,
    but not by me.
    Their immediate impact to mention that shortly is that Faste´s second march south encountered very little resistance
    and thus is not worthy of describing in detail either.

  17. #537
    Yours is no Disgrace Gollevainen's Avatar
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    Oddman's and Yoshi's answers to my quiz
    Do note the difference of my arse'fried drama queenish trolls of get atleast some guilt from the gangbangers and something actually worth of answering
    In the end, I think I've atleast got some sort of discussion over that matter going on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzMartinDK
    So, any news on what the perm player has to say about all this?
    Do guys take notice that there is some sort of change to become new German perm as prior to last session fasquardon Stated that he was not able to make it to the session and most likely to the entire campaing becouse of RL issues.

    I orginally agreed to sub Germany in minds of smelling the air there for my possible move as new German player....but can there be better ways to whish me anti-welcomes than gangbang from all my neighbours

    While the pathetic Gothian expeditionary troops on the British isles are slaughtered mercilessly by Danish soldiers
    My orginal plan was to have not so phatethic Sealion operation on the Isles, (not at any point to reclaim lost pride for defeating you back in my orginal starting position :P ) but then others joined in and I had to start moving my own troops in rather paniqued disorder to face all other troops. Those troops that got to the islands where ones that were all ready onway where as the heavy part of it was mustered in Spain. As KoM wondered in the other forum of how Undefended the Northern Italy was, the reason was simple, I had allready raised these troops to southern Germany to repel and keep Danish invasion in bay. In the end most of my armies (around 40k total, I had bleed much during the civil war period and not all my vassals where ready to join my cause) were destroyed piecemeal engagements becouse I couldn't focus on four different fronts.

    The second battle in the area however did unfortunately end with the slaughtering of all Danish war painters hence I
    can not show you any more historical documents about the course of war in that region.

    In short it went this way:
    After the lost of the first battle of Foix, I withdrewn my armies and managed to restack them without neither of my enemies really focusing on destroying them. Then I tried to save most of my remaining armies other fronts, but I could only take token stack of 15 thousand mens to hide in Centrall france, where I had no demenses thus not much of enemy action. I decided that as I had lost the war completely, I still deserved one good victory and I took the surviors of Foix and started to harrash one of Carrilon's 3000 strong stacks sieging Foix... I intially outnumbered him, but then Carrillon started to plea his allies help in TS and those same allies gave rather open account of how much troops they had there (around 13k in total IRC against my 9k)

    So it was then dead simple. I managed to rose one regiment from some odd vassal, and pretend that I was pushing all I got against that Carrilons army. Danish (and I recal Lothargian too) stacks rushed to help and poured their strength against my now 5000 strong army that was bleeding dry in the battle.
    After they have brougth all their stacks there and I was sure that there werent any more anywhere near by, it was time to take that other 15k stack that I was hiding into use and it arrived into the battle, in earls time...
    ...well like Kolibri said, none left behind painting any memorials from that

    Next time you guys gangbang someone, please do your warmanaging in some other channel than your opponents. You could have destroyed all the remaining German armies (I have the habbit of surrender after the last regiment is dead) well before the session would have ended.
    Last edited by Gollevainen; 05-10-2010 at 18:12.
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  18. #538
    Human Enewald's Avatar
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  19. #539
    Resident Opportunist King of Men's Avatar
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    I orginally agreed to sub Germany in minds of smelling the air there for my possible move as new German player....but can there be better ways to wish me anti-welcome than gangbang from all my neighbours?
    Come now. What's a little rape and pillage between friends? And it does seem that Germany has big, heavyweight friends at that. Why not move in, accept the Fiat or something like it, and plot your revenge for the next century?
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  20. #540
    Rättshaverist FrozenWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Men View Post
    Come now. What's a little rape and pillage between friends? And it does seem that Germany has big, heavyweight friends at that. Why not move in, accept the Fiat or something like it, and plot your revenge for the next century?
    Yea, we really need a Germany perm if Fasq doesn't come back. We're all gonna have times of trouble and unfair things happen to us, just look at the absolute mess that was my realm the first month+ of playing, you'll pull through. Theres still 250 years of playtime left!
    GM and Last of the Carolingians in:
    Sunday night MP Megacampaign: God Will Know His Own
    The Great Game III MP Mega-Campaign: Children of the Fatherland , Day of Glory (finished)
    Proprietor of one Lord Strange Cookie. , WritAAR of the Week: Feb. 6, 2011

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