• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

anomanderus

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Jan 26, 2010
3.719
562
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Age of Wonders
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I realized celtic culture group has no union, but Cornwall can form britain. I assume this means Wales can also. So yea, make Great Britain able to be a celtic cultural union, just like HRE can be for either Italians or Germans.
 
Not going to happen. The Welsh and Irish were often revolting, and the idea of Jacobitism evolved into a sort of Gaelic and/or Catholic nationalism. To say that Britain was a union of all Celtic cultures would be far from the historical truth. The English aristocracy intended to colonize Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, and to a great extent they did... replacing native peoples with Anglophones.

The Celtic nations shouldn't have a union tag, because they shouldn't be united. When Scotland had the ability to annex Ireland, they instead attempted to have one brother as King of Scotland and the other as King of Ireland.
 
Just because something didn't happen, doesn't mean it couldn't have.

Could just make two "Great Britain" tags. Use the one we've already got for the English forming it. Then, create a different one if a Celtic nation forms it, and make it the Celtic cultural union.
 
Just because something didn't happen, doesn't mean it couldn't have.

True, but this would be by far the most implausible nation one could form, since it never existed before, during, or after the game, and there was never any attempt to form such a nation.

Could just make two "Great Britain" tags. Use the one we've already got for the English forming it. Then, create a different one if a Celtic nation forms it, and make it the Celtic cultural union.

I think GB would probably be a poor substitute. The required areas would likely require Scotland, Ireland, and maybe some part of Brittany. England wouldn't really be of much use to such a nation, and would likely be a burden with revolts and such. I guess the cores for the nation would probably cover Brittany, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and Cornwall. I have no idea what one might call such a nation though. It would probably be near impossible to form though, considering such a nation would require that you beat England and France using some of the weakest nations in Europe.
 
Just to clarify:

Great Britain is an island situated to the northwest of Continental Europe. It is the ninth largest island in the world, and the largest European island.

As Irish and Breton are included in the gaelic culture group and they most certainly aren't part of the island mentioned above they should not be able to form Great Britain. As Cornwall and Wales are located on the mentioned island they should obviously be able to form it.

"Celtic" doesn't appear as a culture ingame anyway. The culture that Ireland, Wales, Cornwall etc. share in-game is gaelic. This is most likely due to 3 different language groups that existed in the area after the Romans left it, seen in this map, where green represents the Goidelic languages.

The Kingdom of Great Britain (1707–1801, this is within the game timeframe) never included Ireland or Brittany, thus it was never a cultural union.

1801 the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was created, initially a PU between Great Britain and Ireland. This state should not be confused with GB.

Conclusion:
Great Britain should not be the celtic cultural union.
The Celtic culture (that doesn't exist ingame) should not have a cultural union.
The Gaelic culture should not have a cultural union.
The United Kingdom could be implemented as a union of both british AND gaelic culture groups, this would pose problems as it could not include Brittany...
 
Why not add another decision to GB (that was formed by a Galelic nation) to get a cultural union if it gains control over Birttany?
 
Not going to happen. The Welsh and Irish were often revolting, and the idea of Jacobitism evolved into a sort of Gaelic and/or Catholic nationalism. To say that Britain was a union of all Celtic cultures would be far from the historical truth. The English aristocracy intended to colonize Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, and to a great extent they did... replacing native peoples with Anglophones.

The Celtic nations shouldn't have a union tag, because they shouldn't be united. When Scotland had the ability to annex Ireland, they instead attempted to have one brother as King of Scotland and the other as King of Ireland.

I agree that Great Britain was far from being a Celtic state since the dominant culture was the English one which is more a germanic culture.

The idea of a Celtic union state is interresting, though. Having members of same royal familiy as kings of different nations could lead to personal union and possibly to a Celtic state. This is, in my opinion, more an idea for a mod than for the regular game.
 
True, but this would be by far the most implausible nation one could form, since it never existed before, during, or after the game, and there was never any attempt to form such a nation.

You're saying it's implausible because it didn't actually happen.
What about the creation of the actual Spain, out of a sheer stroke of luck (considering castilians had more in common with portuguese than with catalans)? Should it be removed, because it was quite implausible too?

What if Scotland had inherited one or more irish minors and managed to extend their rule over the entire island ; wouldn't they have the possibility to become another kingdom in the long run? (Sure, they actually didn't, but they could have)

That's not really the cultural union of all gaels, but as cornish and welsh populations suffer under the british yoke (and britons oppressed by the french?), that would be the closest you could have.

So, wether you say that only actual historic countries must have such opportunities to form ; or you admit that every cultural union might have been possible had history unfolded differently.
You can't be half way like that.
 
True, but this would be by far the most implausible nation one could form, since it never existed before, during, or after the game, and there was never any attempt to form such a nation.



I think GB would probably be a poor substitute. The required areas would likely require Scotland, Ireland, and maybe some part of Brittany. England wouldn't really be of much use to such a nation, and would likely be a burden with revolts and such. I guess the cores for the nation would probably cover Brittany, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and Cornwall. I have no idea what one might call such a nation though. It would probably be near impossible to form though, considering such a nation would require that you beat England and France using some of the weakest nations in Europe.

Fair enough. So we need someone who's familiar with Proto-Celtic to come up with a likely name for it.

Near impossible to form, sure. But who doesn't love a good challenge?
 
You're saying it's implausible because it didn't actually happen.
What about the creation of the actual Spain, out of a sheer stroke of luck (considering castilians had more in common with portuguese than with catalans)? Should it be removed, because it was quite implausible too?

What if Scotland had inherited one or more irish minors and managed to extend their rule over the entire island ; wouldn't they have the possibility to become another kingdom in the long run? (Sure, they actually didn't, but they could have)

That's not really the cultural union of all gaels, but as cornish and welsh populations suffer under the british yoke (and britons oppressed by the french?), that would be the closest you could have.

So, wether you say that only actual historic countries must have such opportunities to form ; or you admit that every cultural union might have been possible had history unfolded differently.
You can't be half way like that.

Bad example.

Iberia was united by a series of marriages. Ireland during this time period didn't have a royal family. The days of a High King are long since over and the Irish chieftains were happy just holding on to what little they had left. Likewise, the Welsh were living under the jackboot of English tyranny throughout. There was no potential for a Spanish-style unification. Moreover, the Iberian people spoke closely related languages and had the same religion and history.

Their kingdoms were all related in the sense that Castille and Portugal were both successor states of the Kingdom of Leon, and before that the Kingdom of Asturias. The Kingdom of Aragon was a successor state of the Kingdom of Pamplona. All of which had been under a single dynasty, the Jimenez clan.

Could a united Ireland and Scotland happen? Sure. During the CK time period, it was a possibility.

But the idea of the Irish and Bretons having a common king, tongue, or anything during the EU3 period is very much a stretch. Moreover, most of Scotland becomes Protestant halfway through EU3 and the two Gaelic brothers develop into something more akin to estranged cousins.

Scotland and Cornwall shouldn't have a union tag any more than Sweden and Austria should.
 
You're saying it's implausible because it didn't actually happen.
What about the creation of the actual Spain, out of a sheer stroke of luck (considering castilians had more in common with portuguese than with catalans)? Should it be removed, because it was quite implausible too?

What if Scotland had inherited one or more irish minors and managed to extend their rule over the entire island ; wouldn't they have the possibility to become another kingdom in the long run? (Sure, they actually didn't, but they could have)

That's not really the cultural union of all gaels, but as cornish and welsh populations suffer under the british yoke (and britons oppressed by the french?), that would be the closest you could have.

So, wether you say that only actual historic countries must have such opportunities to form ; or you admit that every cultural union might have been possible had history unfolded differently.
You can't be half way like that.

You seem to have taken that quite seriously. I was stating a fact more than an analysis. There was no serious notion of this larger "Gaelic" nation during any part of history as far as I'm aware. Most of the nations in question were rather under control by larger powers, or quite often in conflict with one. Most other unifications deal with nations that rather formed(Great Britain), were somewhat plausible(Scandinavia), or had earlier or later real counterparts(Germany). Should a nation such as this "Greater Gaelic" nation have a decision? Why not. I'm just saying that it's not really historical and it's incredibly doubtful that PI would ever include such a nation. If you want to add it though, more power to you. That's why modding is an excellent resource for fixing problems on an individual level.
 
WWM Baby. Thank you Hafte for doing the work for these people. ;)

Seriously though, you can unite the Celtic/Gaelic cultures in WWM, union tag and all. Its very hard though, as I believe you need a core in Meath, Lothian, Gwynnedd, and Vendee. (This is IIRC, and you need to own them of course.)
 
You can also form the EU in WWM.

Equally as unrealistic, but at least the EU actually exists.
 
Celtic Union + Scotland is weaker than England even without French territory in both manpower and wealth. Scotland and England being in the same culture group is whacked. And Cornwall should not be able to form Britain. Angles and Saxons and therefore Anglo-Saxons are not Celts. Neither are Danes or Jutes which also contribute to the English ethnicity.

Histroically, Scotland formed GB. Act of union in 1707. James VI of Scotland became James I of England a long time before this. Poor England was the junior partner in a PU all that time.
 
True, but this would be by far the most implausible nation one could form, since it never existed before, during, or after the game, and there was never any attempt to form such a nation.

All right, so you think that we should have Germany, Italy and Romania as formable nations? none of them existed during the games timeframe, and i think few, if any, back then would have taken you serious if you had come forward with the idea.

Now what i love about this game, is the ability to change everything. So i personally don't really see the problem..
In my eyes i doubt it would have been any more absurd if the king of Scotland united all the Gaelic people, than the creation of Yugoslavia was..

@dafool
Germany was hardly ever a unified nation earlier, atleast it wasn't something people really thought about in the time this game spawns over. Which pretty much makes it as unlikely, as a Celtic union..


EDIT: oh and btw, is the whole "HRE" nation anymore realistic than a celtic union?...
 
Last edited:
Celtic Union + Scotland is weaker than England even without French territory in both manpower and wealth. Scotland and England being in the same culture group is whacked. And Cornwall should not be able to form Britain. Angles and Saxons and therefore Anglo-Saxons are not Celts. Neither are Danes or Jutes which also contribute to the English ethnicity.

Histroically, Scotland formed GB. Act of union in 1707. James VI of Scotland became James I of England a long time before this. Poor England was the junior partner in a PU all that time.

Why exactly should Cornwall not be able to form Britain, hombre? They live in Britain, and Britain isn't an english nation state.