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Not being able to find a minister or leader on Google does not necessarily mean that they're fakes. They could have been in photo-books with their images scanned and their names put into the game. Or they could have been in places Google doesn't pick up (e.g. PDFs of books, newspaper images, etc.) Furthermore, there may be different spellings for a minister or leader which differ from their "accepted" name-forms. (E.g. names which were originally in Cyrillic only but then transliterated into the Latin alphabet, of which there are plenty of cases)

Take the case of A.D. Kravchenko. He technically isn't a "fake" minister for Tannu Tuva, although not particularly realistic and he died in 1923, but he did indeed exist. If you tried to find info on him, however, you'd be practically empty. When you translate his name into Cyrillic, however, you get far more info.

I actually made a Wiki article for him in English, based heavily off of the Russian wiki entry which was in Cyrillic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Diomidovich_Kravchenko

It seems the only reason he's actually a minister for Tannu Tuva is because he set foot on the territory for a brief amount of time during the Russian Civil War (from the work Civil War in Siberia, which mentions him a grand total of two times—the second in a footnote in passing, pp. 595-96):
Meanwhile... A.D. Kravchenko had driven north their summer fastness at Belotsarsk (Kyzyl) to engulf Minusinsk (which had been abandoned by its terrified White garrison) on September 13th...
Click to expand...

So those in charge of finding ministers for such an obscure state evidently got desperate. :p
 
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bestmajor said:
well the basic problem is not to indicate a fake or dead leader, after a while you get a feeling for that(eg if you google a name and all you get are HoI AARs lol). the main problem is to get rid of those guys while keeping it playable (ie no leader shortages) in the game.

for example if you look at all those chinese warlords (with their german leaders ;) ) or states like slovakia - if you delete all fakes they make no sense ingame as they wont have any leaders with historical plausability. thats why i call that stuff basic - eg if you open the japanese CSV i upped here and count all the guys i left with LXXXX, those are all fakes, most likely.
however if i remove them all - that wont work :mad: .

the only countries which work well are GER and USA, IMO (+ croatia which comes with the game, the navy excluded).
Click to expand...
One idea is generic leaders. You can call them (TAG) Leader A1, (TAG) Leader A2, etc
 
Mrdie said:
So those in charge of finding ministers for such an obscure state evidently got desperate.
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well, obviously. on the other hand theres no other game which at least tried a hard to dig so many out (why i find it even more annoying that there are so many obvious fakes, my latest find:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wavell_quinan_1941.jpg

- Quinan and Wavell, aka Admiral Fraser, UK and LG Clark / L1076 UK :D

and btw thanks that you translate wiki articles. i know the "different letters trick" already (otherwise i wouldnt have digged out so many japanese, still its saving a lot of work so please dont quit this!)

nomonhan said:
One idea is generic leaders. You can call them (TAG) Leader A1, (TAG) Leader A2, etc
Click to expand...

yes, maybe. but this would really take away a lot of fun at least for me - nd if its about eg Flanders or Wallonia, Euskadi, Siberia etc - personally i prefer not to have those states instead of having them without the personnel.
 
bestmajor said:
yes, maybe. but this would really take away a lot of fun at least for me - nd if its about eg Flanders or Wallonia, Euskadi, Siberia etc - personally i prefer not to have those states instead of having them without the personnel.
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In most cases it's easy to find the political leaders and hard to find the generals. If you can't find either then the state probably shouldn't exist. But by your criteria, many real states should not be in the game. It's almost like you're saying Paradox was right to have all those fake leaders.
 
nomonhan said:
In most cases it's easy to find the political leaders and hard to find the generals. If you can't find either then the state probably shouldn't exist. But by your criteria, many real states should not be in the game. It's almost like you're saying Paradox was right to have all those fake leaders.
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well some of these mistakes were really not necessary IMO, eg for germany which has more than enough options, while others are not there and these ones can be easily replaced by real ones. same goes for most states which were somehow involved in military action of ww2. i mean i did this systematically and i dont know why you add eg some germans in romania while you have a lot of other options (real people) - maybe its just not my humor that Fritz Tornow, the doggy handler of Hitlers dog Blondi has to be a minister with an admin genius - such things could be easily avoided.

well and for eg MEN, MAN, MON maybe you're right (at least if they are not german, but a bit closer eg JAP) - but these examples are necessary as they have been there. stuff like kurdistan, flanders, wallonia, euskadi, etc - well i think i can do without that.

but as this thread is about romania and you will probably need some leaders and CoS, CoA i can give you some links:

http://www.politiadefrontiera.ro/inf_generale/galerie.php

http://www.mapn.ro/fotodb/Sefi-de-stat-major?page=2

http://www.mapn.ro/fotodb/ministrii/73_G

maybe useful
 
Well there were a few Germans and White Russians floating around Asia--for example Otto Braun who helped the Communist Chinese.
 
nomonhan said:
Well there were a few Germans and White Russians floating around Asia--for example Otto Braun who helped the Communist Chinese.
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yes, there are a few abroad for good reasons historically also SPR is full of them, but those which are in the chinese minors except CHC have never been there. one of the cliques even has an Luftwaffe Oberst as a ground leader with a tank trait.
 
Mrdie said:
Take the case of A.D. Kravchenko. He technically isn't a "fake" minister for Tannu Tuva, although not particularly realistic and he died in 1923, but he did indeed exist.
Click to expand...

If he's dead in 1936 then he's a fake in my book. Actually you prompted me to take a look at worldstatesmen.org to find out who the real leaders for Tannu Tuva were and only ONE of them is in the file at all--Kemchik-ool. I did a search for one of the Tuva leaders and found an HOI1 thread with a discussion as to who should be "assigned" to Tanu Tuva based on the fact that he/she is not so famous to be used elsewhere. I concluded that, except for Kemchik-ool, all of the cabinet for Tuva is probably fake. And he died in 1938.
I would prefer real people without pictures to fake people with pictures--either that or an acknowledgment that certain people were made up to fill slots.

bestmajor said:
yes, there are a few abroad for good reasons historically also SPR is full of them, but those which are in the chinese minors except CHC have never been there. one of the cliques even has an Luftwaffe Oberst as a ground leader with a tank trait.
Click to expand...
Would you mind telling me whom are all of the people in the Chinese minor files you consider to be fakes? Or would it be easier to ask you to just name the real people?
 
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nomonhan said:
If he's dead in 1936 then he's a fake in my book. Actually you prompted me to take a look at worldstatesmen.org to find out who the real leaders for Tannu Tuva were and only ONE of them is in the file at all--Kemchik-ool. I did a search for one of the Tuva leaders and found an HOI1 thread with a discussion as to who should be "assigned" to Tanu Tuva based on the fact that he/she is not so famous to be used elsewhere. I concluded that, except for Kemchik-ool, all of the cabinet for Tuva is probably fake. And he died in 1938.
I would prefer real people without pictures to fake people with pictures--either that or an acknowledgment that certain people were made up to fill slots.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, Tannu Tuva has a female HoS or HoG and was the first state in the world to have one (Queens etc. excepted), so that one should be real.
 
Yes, there was a female in a position of power in Tannu Tuva: Khertek Amyrbitovna Anchimaa-Toka
She is not in the Paradox file at all.
She married the man who requested formal admission to the USSR for Tannu Tuva: Salchak Kolbakkhorekovich Toka. He is not in the file either.
I'm going to redo the Tannu Tuva minister file for my mod because the Paradox file is such an embarrassment, and she'll be HOS in 1940. BTW the reason Kemchik-ool died in 1938 is that he was arrested and executed.
 
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I'd like to see this and the work on Japan you have done for DH (I couldn't find it). Good work bestmajor!
 
hi easy,

sorry my real life wont allow this in the near future. so if you want to have it for DH you'll have to do it yourself unfortunately.
both projects and a lot more are continued in the "colour pics" (means for ROM some more admirals and improved ministers,
for JAP the deletion of at least 2 double leaders and some new ones - a very good germany, france and SOV as well, including
the CSVs, events for Anschluss, Vichy and soviet purges).
just all this is using AoD as a base and converting all of this (no matter B/W or colour) for DH or IC will take a lot of time.

so right now i'm looking forward what new patches bring for my needs and i think i decide later which HoI2 version i'll finally
take (the working death date in DH http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?584847-Leader-Retirements.
is a big plus for DH, and i still have thousands of source images for most of the important nations).

if you want to convert it, take the b&w one and the colour pack and merge it (the CSV in "colour pics" is always the latest version
and most pics are either already there (in the b&w version) or easy to find as i name the pics like "Hitler_Adolf_ger" instead of M1
to avoid confusion).




EDIT:

i think (not sure but almost) the leaders CSVs should be compatible for all versions (ROM and JAP).
there are new entries for ministers in DH so the ministers CSVs wont work for sure.

maybe make a fresh install of DH and copy the pics and leaders CSV of both nations into DH - i think this should work fine.
all you need to do is saving your original CSVs as the pics wont overwrite anything (same for ww1 germany improved, but this one
was in DH format so the ministers CSV will work as well)
 
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Alright. You might just wanna hand it over to the DH tho. I know they are happy to implement work like this. And they'll credit you.

In any case, thanks for your work on this :)
 
i thought i'm already credited? (i'm not at home currently so i cant check, but Martin told me)

well my PM box is empty again and i'm willing to support people who need help.
 
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