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Thread: Immigration in the British Empire

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    Immigration in the British Empire

    Just wondering if there has been any mention of this topic yet? I guess I am specifically concerned with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. I found in Vicky 1 that these countries never really got historic levels of immigration, especially after they became dominions. They weren't Democracies and didn't have the USA tag, so they would always lose out to the Americans.

    I know the USA should get many more immigrants (about 10x that of Canada), but I hated seeing provinces that had only or a majority of aboriginals (when this was historically not the case).
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    OT's own Sgt. Schultz telesien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malch View Post
    Just wondering if there has been any mention of this topic yet? I guess I am specifically concerned with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. I found in Vicky 1 that these countries never really got historic levels of immigration, especially after they became dominions. They weren't Democracies and didn't have the USA tag, so they would always lose out to the Americans.

    I know the USA should get many more immigrants (about 10x that of Canada), but I hated seeing provinces that had only or a majority of aboriginals (when this was historically not the case).
    IMHO the best solution would be (and I hope it will be) to remove the USA tag altogether and replace it with certain expectations from people. In the spirit of "every country should get a chance" it shouldn't matter if it is USA or Brazil. There should be one predominant motive, that will ensure USA will still get the most immirants. Land. I never studied this problem specifically, but I believe most of the people left Europe in the search for their own land. Something very hard to get in Europe, where all land was claimed long ago. You could get job in a factory in Europe too, so this should be motive for later stages of the game. Also people will tend to migrate where there is already closely related majority or at least minority. It is easier to fit in.

    So this time please don't base it on social security reforms. Leaving your birth country, paying your whole live savings for ticket and sailing across Atlantic ocean is something for industrious and adventurous people and those people won"t do that because of pension funds or unemployment benefits. Well at least not back then. Modern days motives can be different

    Come to think of it, political reforms also shoudln't be that significant. Who will leave his whole life behind, just to be able to vote? That can be also significant motive only when you deal with drastically different government types. So none for weigheted voting based constitunional monarchy, but some for none voting based dictatorship.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by telesien View Post
    Come to think of it, political reforms also shoudln't be that significant. Who will leave his whole life behind, just to be able to vote?
    The recent german history has many examples, that people flee under mortal danger from east germany to west germany, sometimes leaving the whole family behind. Ok this was not only about "voting rights" but also for freedom speech and and freedom of travel.

    I now that we can't compare this with the vicky era, but it shows what people are willing to do for political reforms....

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    OT's own Sgt. Schultz telesien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
    The recent german history has many examples, that people flee under mortal danger from east germany to west germany, sometimes leaving the whole family behind. Ok this was not only about "voting rights" but also for freedom speech and and freedom of travel.

    I now that we can't compare this with the vicky era, but it shows what people are willing to do for political reforms....
    That is why I included exception for dramaticaly different countries. Also there is difference between relocationg to the closest free state and traveling to the opposite side of the world.
    "'Religious faith. Belief in daemons, belief in spirits, belief in an afterlife and all the other trappings of a preternatural existence, simply existed to make us all more comfortable and content in the face of a measureless cosmos. They were sops, bolsters for the soul, crutches for the intellect, prayers and lucky charms to help us through the darkness. But we have witnessed the cosmos now, my friends. We have passed amongst it. We have learned and understood the fabric of reality. We have seen the stars from behind, and found they have no clockwork mechanisms, no golden chariots carrying them abroad. We have realized there is no need for god, or any gods, and by extension no use any longer for daemons or devils or spirits."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
    The recent german history has many examples, that people flee under mortal danger from east germany to west germany, sometimes leaving the whole family behind. Ok this was not only about "voting rights" but also for freedom speech and and freedom of travel.

    I now that we can't compare this with the vicky era, but it shows what people are willing to do for political reforms....
    I can coinvincly say that this was due the fact that western Germany had higher standard of living.
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    Decisions? in the lines of "steer emigration towards Canada/Australia New Zeeland/" increasing the likleyhood that people in the UK chose those countries instead of the US when they consider to emigrate.
    Last edited by theFreeman; 08-03-2010 at 14:06.
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    i was watching a documentary show on the dust bowl that hit the US sometime in early 20 C. an idea poped into my mind as soon as they mentioned the Homestead act. this was a government policy of trying to encourage citizens to settle in lands outside the 13 colonies by giving any American citizen a claim to the land if he was to improve it. i am not sure how that could translate into game terms, but this should be a realistic way to try to put your people into your desired colonies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
    The recent german history has many examples, that people flee under mortal danger from east germany to west germany, sometimes leaving the whole family behind. Ok this was not only about "voting rights" but also for freedom speech and and freedom of travel.

    I now that we can't compare this with the vicky era, but it shows what people are willing to do for political reforms....
    You don't actually have to stray that far from the Vicky time period. With the failure of the 1848 revolutions, many European liberals fled from the counterrevolution to the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElPasha View Post
    i was watching a documentary show on the dust bowl that hit the US sometime in early 20 C. an idea poped into my mind as soon as they mentioned the Homestead act. this was a government policy of trying to encourage citizens to settle in lands outside the 13 colonies by giving any American citizen a claim to the land if he was to improve it. i am not sure how that could translate into game terms, but this should be a realistic way to try to put your people into your desired colonies.
    King has hinted that something like the 'national focus' tool from HttT will be used in this manner.

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    Well IMO the 2 most important factors for immigration are still wars and standard of living(incl jobs/land and rights).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RedRalphWiggum View Post
    King has hinted that something like the 'national focus' tool from HttT will be used in this manner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambourmajor View Post
    You don't actually have to stray that far from the Vicky time period. With the failure of the 1848 revolutions, many European liberals fled from the counterrevolution to the US.
    The liberals were a tiny part of the population though.
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    I think that it can be a decision to promote inmigration to the colonies, but not like a decision "Promote Inmigration to Australia and New Zealand", something more like "Promote Inmigration to X region". So this can make pops think more about migrating there than somewhere else. Something like UK conquer Argentina and instead of promoting inmigration to Australia and New Zealand, promotes inmigration there. Or something like in Patagonia, where Chile and Argentina both tried to gain as much land as they could and so promoted inmigration to those places.
    But these shouldn't make all inmigrants go to a certain place, like if as the US I promote inmigration to California, all new inmigrants will go there, instead there will be inmigrants going all over the country and to California will go more inmigrants that if Im not promoting inmigration.

    Just an idea.
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    OT's own Sgt. Schultz telesien's Avatar
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    Do you really think that migration to specific countries happened because home government supported it?
    "'Religious faith. Belief in daemons, belief in spirits, belief in an afterlife and all the other trappings of a preternatural existence, simply existed to make us all more comfortable and content in the face of a measureless cosmos. They were sops, bolsters for the soul, crutches for the intellect, prayers and lucky charms to help us through the darkness. But we have witnessed the cosmos now, my friends. We have passed amongst it. We have learned and understood the fabric of reality. We have seen the stars from behind, and found they have no clockwork mechanisms, no golden chariots carrying them abroad. We have realized there is no need for god, or any gods, and by extension no use any longer for daemons or devils or spirits."


    - Primary Iterator Kyril Sindermann

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    Capo Mafia Garra-Ush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by telesien View Post
    Do you really think that migration to specific countries happened because home government supported it?
    You have my country and its population
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambourmajor View Post
    You don't actually have to stray that far from the Vicky time period. With the failure of the 1848 revolutions, many European liberals fled from the counterrevolution to the US.
    Will be nice if the political exiles play a role in V2. Let's say they are another type of immigrant who wants to overthrow the government of their country and you can fund them or denying asylum to them. You can get worsen relations with their original countries and maybe a casus belli. Don't thing only in liberal guys. The monarchy is overthrown in, let's say, Spain. Some reactionaries aristocrats go to Orleanist France and cry to restore the monarchy in their country. France get a casus belli against Spain. I can give many examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by telesien View Post
    Do you really think that migration to specific countries happened because home government supported it?
    Yes at some extent.
    Last edited by Barón Rojo; 08-03-2010 at 20:01.
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  17. #17
    Do you really think that migration to specific countries happened because home government supported it?
    That's how my family ended up in Canada.

    I guess I am just concerned that the 'settling' of these areas is something not well reflected in Ricky, but it is a scenario that is fairly unique. I can't think of any other countries in the world that functioning states across oceans using people primarily of their national culture. Sure some European countries tried, but these are the only examples where the countries were independent functioning entities that had European descendants were the majority. I just want to make sure this is modeled effectively.
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    Imperator General Ksim3000's Avatar

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    I did encounter in one Ricky game where I had many POPs from the Home Islands emigrate to the colonies. Had plenty move to Australia and New Zealand although their most favourite destination was South Africa, funnily enough.

    I literally created a "British South Africa" with 50% of the population being of white British descent. Certainly was an interesting game.

    Still, mainly that was down to POPs leaving due to farms and mines over crowding.

    Anyway, I definitely hope they improve the immigration engine in Victoria 2. Certainly something along the lines of the tool used in HTTT would go along way. I really want to get that chance of re-creating "British South Africa" to some extent in Vicky 2.

  19. #19
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    Well.

    Here in Argentina, Giving out land to anyone who would improve it was normally done.

    Thats how we ended up with 10 people owning all the provinces outside of Buenos Aires, but meh.

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  20. #20
    Farmers income per capita should be higher when there aren't many of them in the province - there's only a limited amount of land to go around, after all - which would create an incentive for Farmer POPs from crowded countries to move to the colonies.

    Allowing the government to offer incentives to encourage settlement would be cool too - maybe a lump sum bounty on arrival, maybe lower taxes?
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