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Thread: Monopoly - a Hansa AAR

  1. #61
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    Chapter 4: Mercantilism vs. Free Trade

    The argument has been around since EU3 came out - which is better, Mercantilism or Free Trade?

    The answer is simple, right? Free Trade is better if you are small, Mercantilism is better if you conquer and own a CoT...

    Not quite true. To really understand the value of the sliders, you have to take everything into account.

    First, the sliders themselves:
    Mercantilism:
    .2 spies, 8% domestic compete chance, 10% Domestic Placement Chance, +4% spy defense per level.
    +5% merchant cost per level.

    Free Trade:
    +5% foreign compete chance, +2% TE, +.4 merchants, -5% merchant cost per level
    -4% spy defense per level

    Next, let's take into account decisions:
    Mercantilism:
    • Mining Act
      +1 Mercantilism, +5% Global Tax, +6% PE
      -0.04 Merchants/yr, -3% Merchant Placement Chance, -3% Compete Chance
      Requires Gov 31, at least 1 gold, copper, or iron prov, sheriff advisor, tax assessor in capital, Mercantilism 2+
    • Navigation Act
      +6% TE, +3% Global Trade Income, +10% Naval Force Limit, +0.5%/year Navy Tradition, +8% Manpower, +5% Foreign Compete Chance
      +.02 infamy/year
      Requires Mercantilism 1+, 40% overseas provinces, NTP, collector advisor
    • House of Trade
      +1 Mercantilism, +8% Global Trade Income, +5% Global Tax, +0.05 Merchants/yr
      +6% Stability Cost, +4% Galley cost, +4% Big Ship cost, +3% Merchant cost, +3% Colonist cost
      Requires Latin tech group, 30% overseas provinces, NTP, 50% TE, Mercantilism 1+

    Free Trade:
    • Bank of Amsterdam
      -5% inflation, +10% global trade income modifier
      Requires NB, Free Trade 2+, Netherlands
    • Statute of Monopolies
      +1 Free Trade, +3% TE, +3% PE
      +5% Stability cost
      Requires Free Trade 1+ (but not +5), 1 CoT

    Now, Triggered Modifiers:
    Mercantilism:
    • Sound Toll
      +20% Global Trade Income
      Requires Mercantilism 3+, Skane, Fyn, and Sjaelland.
    • Bosphorus Sound Toll
      +15% Global Trade Income
      Requires Mercantilism 3+, Edirne, Bursa, Thrace, and Bithynia
    • East Indian trade route
      +20% Global Trade Income
      Requires less than Free Trade 2, QftNW, Latin tech, discover Cape of Good Hope, 4 ports, either Muscat or Dadra, and an unowned CoT in Dadra, Bihar, Sunda, or Guangzhou.

    Finally, Trade Goods:
    • Grain (FT 1+):-80% Supply Modifier
    • Ivory (Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier
    • Tea (Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier
    • Chinaware (Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier
    • Spices (Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier
    • Coffee (Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier
    • Cotton (Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier
    • Sugar (Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier
    • Tobacco(Merc 1+):-50% Demand Modifier

    Reducing Supply increases prices, reducing demand decreases them.

    Now, we'll sum it all up:

    At max Mercantilism, with all decisions and triggered modifiers, you have:
    1 spy/year, 37% domestic compete chance, 50% domestic placement chance, +20% spy defense, +6 TE, +6% PE, +10% Global Tax, +56% Global Trade Income, +10% Naval Force Limit, +0.5%/year Navy Tradition, +8% Manpower, +2% Foreign Compete Chance, +0.01 Merchants/yr
    +25% merchant cost, -0.04 Merchants/yr, -3% Merchant Placement Chance, +.02 infamy/year, +6% Stability Cost, +4% Galley cost, +4% Big Ship cost, +3% Merchant cost, +3% Colonist cost
    -50% for many Colonial good prices

    At max Free Trade, you have:
    [COLOR="Lime"]+25% foreign compete chance, +13% TE, +3% PE, +2 merchant/yr, -25% merchant cost
    -20% spy defense per level, +5% Stability cost
    +400% Grain prices

    (Keep in mind that if you start Free Trade, you can grab Statute of Monopolies before going Mercantilistic.)

    Thus, over the long term, Mercantilism wins in HTTT, hands down, once you get the 3 triggered modifiers. The -50% penalty to colonial goods is outpaced by the +56% global trade income modifier. Free Trade is better if you need to kick start trade early (+25% compete chance is equivalent to 50% TE difference)

    Keep in mind that you have to leave a CoT unowned (thus no WC), and your colonial goods take a beating. Also, in IN, the Sound Toll requires you to have a Scandinavian primary culture, and the Bosphorus Sound Toll requires Thrace to be unowned and have a CoT. This was one reason why Free Trade was more preferable.

    (Feel free to spot check my work and make comments...)
    Last edited by naggy; 13-03-2010 at 16:12.

  2. #62
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    Nice break down of FT/Merc, very useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by naggy View Post
    Duke of Wellington: On the flip side, there are some interesting tactics you can use to take advantage of a merchant republic. Vassalizing one (and protecting it) has some great advantages.
    When I vassalised Venice and Genoa they became Administrative Duchies... how do you keep them merchant republics?

  3. #63
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    Chapter 5: Preparations

    October 13, 1402: We ask Lithuania for Grain trade rights (Maybe) - they refuse. The goal is to bribe them into our league, depriving their provinces from Novrogrod.

    October 16: +.25 merchants/year for 4 years is kinda crappy, so we cancel the mission. Oh...there was more?

    You foooooooooool!

    Our next mission - all we have to do is take Antwerp from Burgundy so we can get England in our league. Piece of cake! Our reward: 20 ducats, 3 merchants, and 10 prestige.


    December 1: We finally have a magistrate, so we conduct a Population Census. Nifty HTTT National Focus provincial decision. Great for CoTs or provinces with high value goods where the 50% growth bonus will help crank out more goods.


    December 15: Granada westernizes their military.

    January 1, 1403: 5 merchants are sent to Venice.

    February 16: Bar is annexed by France. So much for them wiping out Burgundy and France, inheriting Great Britain, and becoming the Holy Roman Empire.

    We send Lithuania to raise relations: 16 ducats for 18 relations.

    June 30: Corruption. Lose 1 stability or gain 3 inflation. Stability is cheap - easy choice.

    July 1: We get military access from Lithuania. They're fighting the Horde at the moment...hopefully they'll pull through.

    August 6: Mixed news from Burgundy. They lost the French cores to France. It weakens them in the short term, but it also means that France can't be counted on to beat them down regularly.


    August 18: Lorraine cedes Metz to France. France is already turning into a steamroller.

    October 15: We secure rights to Lithuania's grain. This serves two purposes: increased relations and some money flowing to our CoT now. It's also a hedge.


    December 1: Lithuania declines to join the trade league (Maybe).

    March 1, 1404: Lithuania is in a spot of trouble.


    April 1: We cancel the Swedish iron rights, since we don't need them for the mission.

    May 1: Lithuania goes bankrupt.

    August 7: Naples cedes Janina and Apulia to Venice. Venice, for the moment, is too powerful to mess with.


    October 3: Salt trade rights with Brittany. Secures us 1 more province in our CoT from someone far away. Lithuania is now 100% occupied by Tver, rebels, and the Horde. No one wants to give up.

    November 1: Lithuania goes bankrupt. They're doomed.

    February 23, 1405: Hamburg gets a kontor.


    March 1: With a war chest gathered, we get military access in Savoy for a sneak attack on Genoa. Genoa has 8 regiments (7 infantry, 1 cavalry), all of which are away. Better yet: she has only 1 galley and 5 cogs left.

    April 16: Election time. We want more diplo, so we choose the diplo candidate.


    July 18: 4 infantry regiments land in Nice. We declare war, hoping Milan doesn't join in. They don't. Had they, we would have sat and waited for them to accept a WP or cheap bone to leave.


  4. #64
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keinwyn View Post
    When I vassalised Venice and Genoa they became Administrative Duchies... how do you keep them merchant republics?
    D'oh...forgot that vassalizing can change gov type.

  5. #65
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    (sighs) Trading in HT seems complicated. But as far as I can tell, you're doing great. Keep it up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by naggy View Post
    D'oh...forgot that vassalizing can change gov type.
    What happens if you diplo vassalise rather than force vassalise? not sure I've ever done that to a republic/theocrcy so have never noticed if it changes gov type.

  7. #67
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keinwyn View Post
    What happens if you diplo vassalise rather than force vassalise? not sure I've ever done that to a republic/theocrcy so have never noticed if it changes gov type.
    Can't, since they can't have royal marriages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by naggy View Post
    Can't, since they can't have royal marriages.
    *palmface* yes of course... that's why I don't remember doing it lol. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to though... can it be moded? Had a quick look but couldn't see where to.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by naggy View Post
    February 16: Bar is annexed by France. So much for them wiping out Burgundy and France, inheriting Great Britain, and becoming the Holy Roman Empire.
    The fools are obviously not visiting the AAR section of this forum enough! Very nice update.
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    JDMS: Yeah, it's a bit more complicated. Trade leagues really do make the early game's trade more interesting, but Genoa, Novrogrod, and Hansa usually get wiped within a century.

    Keinwyn: Possibly. I'll have to tinker.

    morningSIDEr: Every good leader should read the AAR section.

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    Chapter 6: The Fall of Genoa and Danzig

    August 17, 1405 - Word arrives that Utrecht is excommunicated. The Hansa call for a merchant council to decide what to do. Holland just declares war and eats them. Score one for monarchy.

    September 7: Novrogrod invades Danzig...with 1 regiment of infantry. 2k cavalry is sent to kill them.

    October 16: Our loan comes due, and we pay it. Our army is now sieging Genoa's defenseless home.

    January 19. 1406: The Novrogrod detachment is driven off, but they retreat into the TO. No use following.

    February 1: Allies rock.


    March 14: The Teutonic Order officially guarantees the independence of the Hanseatic League. Because they love us.

    May 6: 4 Genoese Galleys hit the Hanseatic fleet of 4 carracks, 4 galleys, and 2 cogs, and sink our galleys and get away. Bastards. Galleys are mostly useless to us anyway.


    August 13: Corsica surrenders to the siege by Bremen.

    October 17: Peasants rise up in Danzig. We give military access to Poland, who kills them off for us.

    April 15, 1407: Granada is annexed by Castille. Westernization wasn't enough.

    July 18: Liguria falls to siege. Kaffa is captured by Genoese Pretender Rebels (brilliant place to start a pretender rebellion, eh?), and Azow is untouched.


    July 20: Back to trading: Anhalt, Saxony, and Meissen join the league. They already trade in Lubeck, but this will keep Venice away.

    October 1: A quick look at the peace criteria shows that the annexation cost for Genoa is 114 war score. If we can shake loose one of her eastern provinces with a rebellion, we should be able to vassalize. Thus, Patriot rebels are hired in Azow.

    October 19: TO leaves the league. We can't do anything about it.

    January 25, 1408: The patriots somehow got killed in Azow, so we fund nationalists.

    March 1: Genoa goes bankrupt. This should help the rebels.

    April 3: Brabant gives us trade rights to Cloth, and Trier gives us Grain trade rights. More provinces diverted from Antwerpen.


    April 28, 1408: Genoa's fleet shows up and is promptly sunk due to a lack of morale.

    June 1. Azow falls to Nationalist Rebels.

    June 23: Smugglers running rampant. -1 stability and -181.03 ducats, or -10% TE and -10% tax for 10 years. Unfortunately, the stab hit would cost us a loan, and TO may well attack at any moment. We're forced to eat the TE/tax hit.

    September 1: Genoa goes bankrupt again.

    October: Our army is dropped off in Kaffa to liberate it from the pretender rebels, and Moldavia gives our fleet access to wait.

    April 1, 1409: Slider move to centralized, and a pretender rises in Hamburg.

    April 17: Election time - we pick another diplo candidate. Bingo!


    September 14: Boundary dispute on Warmia. Hrm...a free core on a Prussian culture province? Heck yeah!

    November 13: The best event ever.


    March 14, 1410: After Kaffa is taken out, our army comes home to wipe the Pretenders in Hamburg.

    May 1: Land 5 - Men at Arms and Longbow. Longbow is chosen due to shock pips.

    June 3: Denmark annexes Holstein.

    September 16: Somehow, the Nationalists in Azow were thrown out, so we rehire them. If this doesn't work, we'll give up and force Genoa to release 'em, and try again in 5 years.

    February 6, 1411: Burgundy declares war on Luxemburg.

    March 7: Enact Land Reform in Lubeck.

    August 7: We get Grain trade rights in Mainz, and Iron trade rights in Luxemburg. Liege refuses to give us iron rights. Unfortunately, the rights in Luxemburg won't last long, but you take what you can get.

    By getting these trade rights, we are seriously eating into Antwerpen's space, and denying the tax benefits from Burgundy.


    September 3: Hesse joins the league.

    November 12: Merchant Fractures event - free slider move to Free Trade or Mercantilism. Better yet - being a merchant republic halves the MTTH. We go mercantilistic.

    July 24, 1412: Mainz joins the Venetian league and breaks our grain rights treaty. Bastards.

    August 1: Lithuania is annexed by Polotsk after Polotsk rebelled. We start sending gifts to get her in our league, before she joins Novrogrod.


    September 11: 5 Novrogrodian regiments land in Danzig. Danzig falls in 14 days. Crap. Our army is rushed into service. This is a huge problem, as the WE cost for occupied provinces is based on your total # - we have 3, so Danzig's capture means we gain .33 WE/month.


    November 8: Our first attempt to dislodge them fails.


    January 27, 1413: Brabant cedes Zeeland to Burgundy and releases Utrecht.

    February 20: The second attempt to free Danzig fails. Our WE skyrockets.

  12. #72
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    Well, things aren't exactly going great for Hansa. Did the Genoese nationalists work the 2nd/3rd time you tried?
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDMS View Post
    Well, things aren't exactly going great for Hansa. Did the Genoese nationalists work the 2nd/3rd time you tried?
    It takes 3 years from winning the siege before they can break free. So far, they are successful, and Genoa's army is now dead. Should be OK now.

    The problem is that Novrogrod is leading the war.

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    Funding rebels in those Genoan provinces seems a bit touch and go usually. I guess that area just has too many different armies trampling around, but I'm unsure who actually frees the province(s)...

    That trade map around Antwerpen looks cool, good job!

    A bit unlucky that Danzig fell so easily. You should get the army there dislodged soon enough, let's hope for WE's sake that you can take care of the fort quickly too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by naggy View Post
    • Grain (FT 1+):-80% Price Modifier
    Actually, Free Trade lowers the supply (rather than demand like in the other examples) of Grain, which actually increases the prices. Combined with Free Subjects and having a unit stationed in every grain producing province in the world (well, not really something to aim for in this game) a 30+ grain price is very possible.
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    Best event ever indeed.

    I always take "The end is nigh"

    It makes me imagine the leader running in circles scraming.....
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    Let's hope you can liberate Danzig soon, too much WE and you'll start looking vulnerable.

    Quote Originally Posted by naggy View Post
    October 16: Our loan comes due, and we pay it.
    What have you done with the real naggy?


    Apparently I need to buy some more gravel.


    My AARs: EU3 England, Golden Horde, France, Iroquois, Castile / EU2 Finland / My Inkwell

    "Sunset Invasion isn't ASB - it's just Prawnstar playing CK2" Athalcor
    "If EU3 had exiled prawn-like aliens he'd be the first one to do a WC with them..." aldriq
    "You were prawn under a conquering stAAR!" Arakhor



  20. #80
    One of the downsides of being small. No matter how rich you are, if a large enough nation comes along they can still stomp all over you. Hopefully you can deal with Novgorod.
    Last edited by Sybot; 13-03-2010 at 13:46.

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