I think there are earlier versions of HoI2 that have that feature. It might be good improvement to allow secondary capitals, but in general the AoD supply system works fine.
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I'm sorry but please explain to me why having London's infrastructure bombed should immediately cripple Britain's army all over the world; the same applying to Berlin, Moscow, Paris etc. IMO this should not happen gradually or immediately. Maybe an option to move the capital would be a good workaround but I'd prefer what I've already suggested.
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AFAIK ESE as well as TC are depending on all the provinces from the supply source to the target province. If you reduce infra in any one of those provinces, this will create a kind of "bottleneck" reducing ESE for the provinces that follow.
Since the capital is (in game terms) the main source, it´s quite okay that ESE will drop for every province that "follows". The only workaround that might solve this problem are local supply depots, serving as buffers by providing the needed goods and transport vehicles for a certain time before being depleted.
But to be honest I wouldn´t touch the supply system by making it even more complicated. Right now this system is one of the main reasons why AoD is so much slower than DH.
Since the capital is (in game terms) the main source, it´s quite okay that ESE will drop for every province that "follows". The only workaround that might solve this problem are local supply depots, serving as buffers by providing the needed goods and transport vehicles for a certain time before being depleted.
But to be honest I wouldn´t touch the supply system by making it even more complicated. Right now this system is one of the main reasons why AoD is so much slower than DH.
It does not work immediatly. Every unit has a stockpile. Imagine that this stockpile does also represent those amounts of supply that are transported at the moment from capital to unit and things are ok again.
The capital exploit is a bad thing but deaktivating one keyfeature of AoD is imo no solution. A possible solution is that you can chose a reserve capital. Until a change of reserve capital is done 120 vanish. Changing the current capital to the reserve capital will increase dissent by 6. So the solution would be similar to changing NIs.
Um... I don't know how to put this politely but have you played AoD? I am currently in a multiplayer game as the UK and the human Germany has virtually bombed London to complete devastation (around 10% infra). Now my forces not only in the British Isles but also in Egypt have an average ESE of 15-20%. There are nearly 1k of supplies in Suez yet my units in Egypt cannot utilise them because London's infrastructure has been reduced, please explain that to me. The ESE does drop immediately, with the supplies sure to follow after only a few days of combat and the fact they cannot be replenished with such a low ESE anyway.It does not work immediatly. Every unit has a stockpile. Imagine that this stockpile does also represent those amounts of supply that are transported at the moment from capital to unit and things are ok again.
No country stores all its supplies in its capital anyway (unless they are effectively city states obviously), changing capital solely to resolve this, IMO, massive exploit should come at no or little cost.
Gunman has already implemented "emergency" supply dumps which can be created by the player. What about simply instructing units to drain supplies from the nearest, i.e. "ESE-best" supply dump available?
If the capital has a very low ESE, then these depots would be used instead.
If the capital has a very low ESE, then these depots would be used instead.
Sorry I don't understand. I thought the "emergency supply dumps" have been created to enable the player to choose personally where the supply depots go rather then having the auto convoy system do it for you. Currently if the capital has been bombed then it won't matter if units are feeding off the best ESE supply dump available, their ESE is still directly affected by the infrastructure of the capital regardless of all other factors.
Ah, my fault, then. What I meant, is that local units away from capital (like, in UK's case, could be the ones in Egypt or in any other overseas territory) should not be affected by a reduction of the capital's ESE and base their own ESE starting from the local depot they drain supplies from.
Those alternative starting points could help. Afaik they already exist in the case of a cut off capital. Is there the risk of creating new exploits?
Maybe, so this should be implemented wisely. In any case, Mr_B0narpte has a point - I too fail to see why, with London bombed, troops stationed in Suez with thousands of supplies stocked by should suddenly start to starve (or at least lose ESE)...
Perfect, it's in touch with reality and removes a massive exploit.
I don't see where the exploits would be in Titan79's suggestion, do you mean the player could bomb the new ESE supply depot? IMO that's completely plausible and historical.
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Maybe those additional starting point could cost 15 TC each. They should be an exception for cases like UK. On the other hand this might harm Japan too much.
Imo that should be possible.
Imo that should be possible.
Who or what determines where those new starting points will be? Why should only UK benefit from such a solution? This might even increase ESE in remote places as they are able to draw their supply from a closer source. You´re opening Pandora´s Box unless this is very carefully implemented. And still there remains the issue of gamespeed...
I don't understand why they would cost 15 TC. Surely the already existing supply depots (i.e. Suez, Bombay, Kaula Lumpur etc) will suffice. The change would be removing the relation the capital's infrastructure has with the ESE of units and making the unit's ESE affected by their supply depot's infrastructure.
This is probably going too far but I would also recommend removing this relation with units in the British isles as this would also potentially help all other majors. As one realistic possibility is bombing Berlin as this could especially cripple Germany's ability on its eastern front, and bombing Rome would cripple Italy's ability in general, bombing Moscow would also massively impact the Soviet-German war, the list goes on and on, this exploit is massive and IMO really does need to be removed.
Awesome
I was only using the UK as an example. Removing this exploit would benefit all majors as explained above. They would draw their supplies from the same source as before, the ESE would probably drop a little considering the infrastructure of virtually all overseas territories would be less then that of their capital cities, this is realistic. IMO removing this exploit provides much greater benefits then keeping the game speed slightly faster then it would be without the exploit.
I suggest to install a fallback ESE value for capitals (never go below value). If capital is bombed to stoneage and ESE is to fall below - say 100 - it switches to the fallback value and keeps it until the dynamic ESE raises beyond 100.
I dont't know the ESE calculation formula for the capital but the fallback ESE may also be determined by using the undamaged infra as a factor (the higher the infra level in a province the higher the fallback ESE)
I dont't know the ESE calculation formula for the capital but the fallback ESE may also be determined by using the undamaged infra as a factor (the higher the infra level in a province the higher the fallback ESE)
So long as this only applies to units that are directly connected to the capital then I agree.
Well, of course this should be implemented with a grain of salt - I'm aware of the potential risks it carries along. But a secondary solution for the capital's ESE issue should be somewhat sought and applied, IMHO.
Afaik there already is a fallback value. But it is very low and mainly depends on logistic techs. I suggest to use (current Infra+current max Infra)/2 in the formula in case of capital only. If a capital is bombed to stoneage a degradation of commandostructure must occur.