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Really enjoying this AAR. Although it isn't over yet, things are not looking good for the Axis... a few questions.
Do you feel the naval investment was worth it for Germany? Although capturing London was impressive, that was a pretty big IC investment that could have been put towards more armor on the eastern front.
How much did Japan missing out on the early part of the war hurt you?
Do you feel the naval investment was worth it for Germany? Although capturing London was impressive, that was a pretty big IC investment that could have been put towards more armor on the eastern front.
How much did Japan missing out on the early part of the war hurt you?
I might be able to answer this as former Japan player. Japan felt pretty passive until DoW of Soviet Union, which helped Germany really marginally. Those twenty outdated infantry divisions SU had on Far Eastern border would have made no difference on European East Front.
What really hurt Axis effort was Japanese not involved in war with USA and/or UK. This allowed USA to concentrate on Africa and Europe. Same with Royal Navy and British troops, they might have been locked in Indochina instead of running wild in the Western Europe. It surely wouldn't mean half UK troops were deployed to India, but it'd help Germany/Italy anyway.
Very interesting. Unfortunately many of the pictures do not work for me.
It is really nice to see a MP AAR, it was getting too boring with those AAR´s of people taking over the whole world playing Hungary or Shanxi...
It is really nice to see a MP AAR, it was getting too boring with those AAR´s of people taking over the whole world playing Hungary or Shanxi...
Gablouc: Later today maybe 
patritchie/Lord Ederon: Capturing london didn't require that much of a naval investment, those were all part of starting navy and few transports built, but but..
As it worked out in this game, the investment to navy was waste, I'm not sure if I'm not to blame for that, you see, there's another 4 BB's still in the line, ready in August, I should have waited for these before challenging the RN.
But I was thinking too far ahead, in hind sight, it was a failure, thou I still consider the Fortress Moscow main reason I failed in east, no amount of panzer would have helped me with that (armor had something like 3,6% attack efficiency in moscow area). But if I had managed to take Moscow, thanks in part to japanese efforts in east, I think I haven't linked a map of that for a while, Soviet surrender progress was over 60% at the time I was last standing in front of Moscow, if it had fallen, I was sure I could have gobbled up rest of the provinces to force a surrender...
..but if soviets had fallen in 1942, and I'd have no fleet, I'd be stuck in mainland for 2 years minimum, with very little shipbuilding practical, that's what I wanted to avoid, and be able to challenge the british/american landings, of course, those landing came bit earlier than I expected...
And yes, Japanese involvement might have delayed that.
peterhoi3: Hmm, I'm using xs.to and imageshack for the images, mostly because the uploading is not working in one or the other at times, which images are you seeing?
patritchie/Lord Ederon: Capturing london didn't require that much of a naval investment, those were all part of starting navy and few transports built, but but..
As it worked out in this game, the investment to navy was waste, I'm not sure if I'm not to blame for that, you see, there's another 4 BB's still in the line, ready in August, I should have waited for these before challenging the RN.
But I was thinking too far ahead, in hind sight, it was a failure, thou I still consider the Fortress Moscow main reason I failed in east, no amount of panzer would have helped me with that (armor had something like 3,6% attack efficiency in moscow area). But if I had managed to take Moscow, thanks in part to japanese efforts in east, I think I haven't linked a map of that for a while, Soviet surrender progress was over 60% at the time I was last standing in front of Moscow, if it had fallen, I was sure I could have gobbled up rest of the provinces to force a surrender...
..but if soviets had fallen in 1942, and I'd have no fleet, I'd be stuck in mainland for 2 years minimum, with very little shipbuilding practical, that's what I wanted to avoid, and be able to challenge the british/american landings, of course, those landing came bit earlier than I expected...
And yes, Japanese involvement might have delayed that.
peterhoi3: Hmm, I'm using xs.to and imageshack for the images, mostly because the uploading is not working in one or the other at times, which images are you seeing?
1 division defending port gives token resistance, assigning any more is not really possible (well, I had maybe 2 each in france at start, but I had to move them after invasion in south.). And landing 5 divisions around port is sure to take it. I'm starting to be in opionion that only real defence against landings is good reserve for retaking them, can't possibly defend each port with enough strenght.
Edit in: another good defence would be fleet able to kill the landing ships, but well.
Edit in: another good defence would be fleet able to kill the landing ships, but well.
A good idea could be to invest some IC to build forts in the most valuable ports.
Regarding invasions - IMO two things are missing:
1. A kind of notification that invasion is going on. It was hard to "miss" and it happens in HOI3.
2. Differentiation of coasts. Currently, all coasts are the same and the only additional modifier is the terrain penalty, which is mostly suited for land combat in-game. Because coasts were (and are) shaped variedly, some kind of attacking and movement penalties for amphibious invasions would be good.
Generally, I think that HOI3's portrayal of invasions is better, because it was (is) totally impossible to guard all possible landing sites with troops. You could probably land troops even in very unfavourable conditions if there was no opposition, so HOI2's "coasts" weren't really that realistic. However, as it is said in point nr 2, some coasts should be better suited for invasions than the others. With the implementation of mentioned changes a good player would guard ports and the most "juicy" beaches, while the notification about invasion taking place and penalties associated with coasts ill-suited for landing should give him/her more time to react.
Currently it's best to guard ports and have reserves nearby to prevent the enemy from taking one of them. An enemy without supplies won't do much damage.
1. A kind of notification that invasion is going on. It was hard to "miss" and it happens in HOI3.
2. Differentiation of coasts. Currently, all coasts are the same and the only additional modifier is the terrain penalty, which is mostly suited for land combat in-game. Because coasts were (and are) shaped variedly, some kind of attacking and movement penalties for amphibious invasions would be good.
Generally, I think that HOI3's portrayal of invasions is better, because it was (is) totally impossible to guard all possible landing sites with troops. You could probably land troops even in very unfavourable conditions if there was no opposition, so HOI2's "coasts" weren't really that realistic. However, as it is said in point nr 2, some coasts should be better suited for invasions than the others. With the implementation of mentioned changes a good player would guard ports and the most "juicy" beaches, while the notification about invasion taking place and penalties associated with coasts ill-suited for landing should give him/her more time to react.
Currently it's best to guard ports and have reserves nearby to prevent the enemy from taking one of them. An enemy without supplies won't do much damage.
French ports had lvl 1 forts, I faintly remember I was building the 2nd round at the time of invasion, Kiel and Wilhelmshaven have lvl 2 forts, mind you, since I haven't had time for industry build up in this scenario, my construction practical is awful causing fort building to take ages.
And, yes, for most time, they did not need the ports, seek or manage to take them as such, the landings were operating on the 30 day landing supply untill they could connect with the main british force...
I'm half in mind proper fix would be to reduce the amount of supply troops can bring with them on landing, 30 days is a lot of time to operate, and I find it somewhat unrealistic in fact...
I do take bit different approach later in this AAR when it comes to landings, it works, and it does not work, you'll see.
And, yes, for most time, they did not need the ports, seek or manage to take them as such, the landings were operating on the 30 day landing supply untill they could connect with the main british force...
I'm half in mind proper fix would be to reduce the amount of supply troops can bring with them on landing, 30 days is a lot of time to operate, and I find it somewhat unrealistic in fact...
I do take bit different approach later in this AAR when it comes to landings, it works, and it does not work, you'll see.
I found that this token resistance is quite worth the effort. It delays the intruder, forces him to fight on unfavorable terms and if you manage to get forces there in time, those forces can be enough to throw them back.
Other than that, it fixes the invading forces for a while where they are vulnerable, especially if you've got a massive airforce.
If anything else fails, you indeed need a corps of quick reaction forces to contain the insurgence.
btw, I absolutely agree with you that 30 days worth of supplies is way too much. Imagine how much fuel that'd be for a single tank division.
All this action in 1942? This AAR gives me hope for the AI. Keep up the good work man.
Looks like you have not realized that all that action has not been done by the AI, but by real people. This is a Multiplayer AAR.
I'm sure I've written it twice by now, probably on first page :rofl:
Edit, didn't find that, but 2nd page (or can you change post per page, ah, between chapters 11 and 12)
Edit, didn't find that, but 2nd page (or can you change post per page, ah, between chapters 11 and 12)
Human controlled countries were: France (until Vichy), UK, US, Canada (after Vichy), Australia (not all sessions), SU, Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Japan (not regularly hence Japanese overall passivity).
Looks like I missed that. You couldn't have let me lived under the blissful ignorance that the Hoi3 AI might actually be challenging?
Looks like I missed that. You couldn't have let me lived under the blissful ignorance that the Hoi3 AI might actually be challenging?
Wouldn't it have been dreadful to wake up to the realization it was but a forlorn hope?
A page full of conversation and no update, I must be slacking.
Chapter Twentyone
24th of June 1942
Northern Netherlands and Germany almost cleared, small pocket waiting withdrawal left in Wilhelmshaven, it should be recovered shortly. I'm very uncertain if I got any or some of the divisions locked here, I assume most were safely evacuated.
4th of July 1942
Americans are pushing forth in Alps, slowly, but superior numbers yield results eventually.
Since we had lot of discussion about this landings defence, I'll show my latest adaption, it went untested, maybe the scary existence of troops in province was enough to prevent attempts, even if it were single brigades, even this approach was only possible due to the now short coast line, anyone want to count how many that is for french coast? Hmm, actually, only like 30? maybe it could be doable after all. Not for Italian coast though, and that's my real problem (next game).
Soviets are also testing the riverline again, it's been a while, luckily German troops have also had time to recover, those assaults are not going to be easy.
In Bulgaria, Greek troops are finally taking part in the war, now that they have an enemy at their borders, their commander are not too bright thou, leaving a completely open flank, allowing soviet mobile troops to push towards Athern nearly unopposed.
26th of July 1942
Once again, it was good moment to test defences of the Brits behind Maginot line, once again we were able to push forth, alas despite the good number of panzers, we were bit at loss how to proceed, there was no real breach and encirclement of anything did not seem possible, we shall see...
Chapter Twentyone
24th of June 1942
Northern Netherlands and Germany almost cleared, small pocket waiting withdrawal left in Wilhelmshaven, it should be recovered shortly. I'm very uncertain if I got any or some of the divisions locked here, I assume most were safely evacuated.
4th of July 1942
Americans are pushing forth in Alps, slowly, but superior numbers yield results eventually.
Since we had lot of discussion about this landings defence, I'll show my latest adaption, it went untested, maybe the scary existence of troops in province was enough to prevent attempts, even if it were single brigades, even this approach was only possible due to the now short coast line, anyone want to count how many that is for french coast? Hmm, actually, only like 30? maybe it could be doable after all. Not for Italian coast though, and that's my real problem (next game).
Soviets are also testing the riverline again, it's been a while, luckily German troops have also had time to recover, those assaults are not going to be easy.
In Bulgaria, Greek troops are finally taking part in the war, now that they have an enemy at their borders, their commander are not too bright thou, leaving a completely open flank, allowing soviet mobile troops to push towards Athern nearly unopposed.
26th of July 1942
Once again, it was good moment to test defences of the Brits behind Maginot line, once again we were able to push forth, alas despite the good number of panzers, we were bit at loss how to proceed, there was no real breach and encirclement of anything did not seem possible, we shall see...