The Broken Star - An AoD Mod

[RedPhalanx]

yeah it has been throwing a fit about that but no actual problems (except Vuono isn't working in that version: here's his corrected line)

6347;Chief of Army;Carl E. Vuono;36;SL;Armoured Spearhead Doctrine;Very High;Vuono_CarlE_USA;x

And on the Soviet Army:

By the middle of the 1980s the Ground Forces contained about 210 divisions. About three-quarters were motor rifle divisions and the remainder tank divisions. There were also a large number of artillery divisions, separate artillery brigades, engineer formations, and other combat support formations. However only relatively few formations were fully war ready. Three readiness categories, A, B, and V, after the first three letters of the Cyrillic alphabet, were in force. The Category A divisions were certified combat-ready and were fully equipped. B and V divisions were lower-readiness, 50–75% (requiring at least 72 hours of preparation) and 10–33% (requiring two months) respectively. The internal military districts usually contained only one or two A divisions, with the remainder B and V series formations.

So how about have the "A" divisions the units on the field at the start, and if they are at war they can 'activate' the B and V divisions at a high dissent and industrial cost.



EDIT: 5 Soviet events; 3 for activating (creating) the "B" divisions at dissent and industrial cost, 1 for activating the V divisions that hits after a few months of war, and 1 in 1991 that allows the USSR to cut its army (and lose the third "B" division event) but gain some industry. Historically the Red Army expenditures where crippling the USSR, and having all of its divisions in the field etc would probobly need to take 90%-95% of the USSR's industrial strength away.

The USA has a smaller penalty, and can lower that with an event in 1991, at the cost of all its battleships and perhaps other units.

[kiahoga]

I found an interesting site for looking at the modern military situation

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

http://www.militaryfactory.com/

[kiahoga]

I think the basic "unit" needs to be the Brigade, rather than the Division. The total size of most armies has shrunk significantly since WW2 and if we want an accurate OOB for the US in 1990, we'll only have about 10 units to play with if we use Divisions.

Ive been doing some more thinking about the Basic unit being a brigade and not the Division. Problem is we are starting at the tail end of an era where the basic unit was still a division and were playing well into a time where at least in western armies the brigade starts to become the base unit. And even today there are nations where the divisions is still the base unit like India who in 2008-09 has 34 active division, at least according to my copy of Jane's. Now I have played mods where you have units that are built as a division but have a max strength of a Brigade or a regiment, but unsure of how It could be done.

[RedPhalanx]

I hate to cut and paste from MDS but their 1.6Beta has both Division and Brigades trainable, with Divisions having higher stats but requiring more manpower, IC, Time etc. I'm playing a game as India and it has worked rather well sofar.

[RedPhalanx]

EDIT: Realized the idea probably wouldn't work

[tuore]

No, no! What would it have been? We can always find something! I'm used to this with my EU3 mod (the engine really can't handle the medieval timeframe, so we've made a lot of compromises).

[tuore]

Easter holiday started, so I have much more time to mod.

[RedPhalanx]

The idea was for a "soft cap" on military units for the majors. Something like ~70 divisions for the US (aka over 2x the size of the current US Army). Unfortunately, there's no way i know of to get the AI to follow the rules.

HOI games for me always seem to degrade into everyone having a zillion units, and if we're planning a 30 year + scenario....



I think the best way is to create accurate manpower. Just a few years ago there was a military recruiting shortage in the US and a few voices in the back started talking about a draft. Politically, re-instituting the draft in the US except in a serious world war would be political suicide.

P.S. I am starting work on the US leader files tonight. If anyone has a better source of US Generals besides Wikipedia please let me know.

[tuore]

Events lowering/raising MP when needed?

[RedPhalanx]

Well the USSR is already going to get events "creating" their reserve divisions if they are involved in a major war (read post 242). Can we set events to trigger based upon low manpower? Otherwise, the US will probably get an event "creating" the National Guard if they are involved in a major war and allowing them to re-institute the draft for a large manpower boost.


Of course, all these events will give some serious dissent and IC penalty (people don't like getting drafted, and if they fight in the army they can't build tanks etc...)

[kiahoga]

Ok here's an update to what im doing with armor tech tree



Ok Ive now Removed the Medium and Heavy Tanks from the tech tree and Ive cut back on the light tanks. In the Space Freed up i'm going to put the Seperate Armored Cavalry Units while Ill leave Air Cav in the infantry tech tree.
I'm going to leave the Towed Rocket Artillery in the tech tree because i found evidence that it still in use by select units in the Chineese Military and certain 3rd world nations, but in not going to expand the line. I have extended two more the armored car tree. and AM going to shrink the towed artillery by two.

[RedPhalanx]

Tuore, is there a planned date for .41 ? I want to know when i need to email my latest US files.

I guess you should change my description on the first post to US Ministers, Leaders, and Events. Right now I am looking up US military leaders (37 identified, 20 ingame sofar)

EDIT: Here's a look. Still working on Ranks Skills etc...

[truth is life]

Well the USSR is already going to get events "creating" their reserve divisions if they are involved in a major war (read post 242). Can we set events to trigger based upon low manpower? Otherwise, the US will probably get an event "creating" the National Guard if they are involved in a major war and allowing them to re-institute the draft for a large manpower boost.

Of course, all these events will give some serious dissent and IC penalty (people don't like getting drafted, and if they fight in the army they can't build tanks etc...)

Well, one thing we could do would be to give the US/USSR/etc. reasonable "total war" manpower growth (relatively large), but institute peacetime penalties that greatly reduce the actual manpower growth. Then institute a series of mobilization/draft events if they go to war or belligerence gets large which progressively reduce the penalty (albeit at a dissent cost), and post-war events which reinstate it. Maybe a bit like CORE, in other words.

Also, the US (and Soviet) populations were quite large, so fighting even a very big war would not have a significant impact on factory production, especially with increased automation. I mean, look at World War II. Production increased in all countries almost to the end of the war unless significant external factors intervened (ie., Germany being conquered and bombed to hell, Japan being bombed and blockaded). This was despite millions of men being mobilized into armies.

[RedPhalanx]

Also, the US (and Soviet) populations were quite large, so fighting even a very big war would not have a significant impact on factory production, especially with increased automation. I mean, look at World War II. Production increased in all countries almost to the end of the war unless significant external factors intervened (ie., Germany being conquered and bombed to hell, Japan being bombed and blockaded). This was despite millions of men being mobilized into armies.

You also had countries, like the US, completely cease automobile construction and have drastic cutbacks on consumer goods in WW2 in order to increase production. I like to think of IC as a max total economic output, and I don't see a country like the US (or even the USSR) returning to WW2 level rationing in the 1990's, at least not without large dissent costs. Can a daily "offmap" dissent penalty be added/removed via event?

Also, AoD doesn't accurately model maintenance costs. Countries like Cuba and Iraq may have had good air forces on paper but in reality no investment in replacement parts left them with far worse actual capabilities.

[kiahoga]

You also had countries, like the US, completely cease automobile construction and have drastic cutbacks on consumer goods in WW2 in order to increase production. I like to think of IC as a max total economic output, and I don't see a country like the US (or even the USSR) returning to WW2 level rationing in the 1990's, at least not without large dissent costs. Can a daily "offmap" dissent penalty be added/removed via event?

Also, AoD doesn't accurately model maintenance costs. Countries like Cuba and Iraq may have had good air forces on paper but in reality no investment in replacement parts left them with far worse actual capabilities.

Remember the Germans kept a largely peace time economy till after Stalingrad and see where it got them.

[RedPhalanx]

Remember the Germans kept a largely peace time economy till after Stalingrad and see where it got them.

True. Not saying "Total War" isn't the most effective way to go, just that it's not popular.


On another note, doing the research on US Navy:


The idea of a WW2 Era Battleship (Iowa Class) with refit attachments researchable makes sense. "Future Battleship" could be a Montana or Texas Class (or other names would work fine). Historically Iowa was undergoing repairs in 1990 after an infamous turret explosion. All would be decommissioned for good in 1992.

For Cruisers, US had 3 types in 1990 (Leahy Class Missile Cruisers, Virginia Class Missile Cruisers, Ticonderoga Class Missile Cruisers). One Cruiser was Nuclear-Powered (USS Bainbridge) and in commission in 1990. So I like keeping the AoD-style "Nuclear Reactors as Attachments" system. The Leahy Class and Virgina Class were decommissioned in the later 1990's.

For Destroyers, the Charles F. Adams Class Destroyer was on its last legs, the Spruance Class Destroyers (and the Kidd variants) could have been extended in use past 2010 if desired (instead decommissioned slowly from 1998-2005). The Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer where just being built in 1990 and still are in use today.

For Frigates the Bronstien and Garcia Class where being decommissioned right as the 1990 scenario starts, the Knox class frigate would soon be next (1991-1994). Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates where all built (some where brand new in 1990) and many are still in use today.

[Hax]

Descriptions for Albania and Yugoslavia:

Albania:

Albania, recently regaining its independence from the Axis occupation of World War II, was the only Country in the East that was able to throw the Germans out without the assistance of Communist Troops.
Enver Hoxha, a French-Educated Politican became the leader of the Communist Party, and ruled the country with an iron fist for almost 40 Years, established an Alliance with the Soviet Union. After breaking with the Soviet Union, Albania was closely tied to Mao Zedong's China,
receiving a lot of aid from the Asian power. In the 70s, following the death of Mao Zedong and the ending of Albania's political ties with China, a lot of state officials were purged in the 70s.
Following the Death of Enver Hoxha, the Iron Fisted Dictator of Albania, only time may tell what the future of this country might be, a country that has fought so hard and long for its independence...

Yugoslavia:

The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia has its origins in the ending of the Second World War, as Yugoslav Partisans took control of the Area after Nazi Germany's surrender, and established the FPRY, or the Federative People's Republic of Yugoslavia.
Its first President, Ivan Ribar, ruled for 7 years after being succeeded by Josip Broz - Tito, the former Prime Minister of Ribar's Cabinet. Tito allied Yugoslavia with the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, the Soviet Dictator, and the Yugoslav Army shot down 2 American Airplanes that flew over Yugoslav Airspace.
This caused a deep distrust of Tito in the US, and even Stalin himself distrusted Tito.
In 1948, a Crisis between Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union led to the end of all remaining friendly relations between the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.
Yugoslavia was now free from the Soviet Union, and formed its own Communism, called "Titoism".
Yugoslavia remained neutral in the Cold War, and now, with several cultural groups demanding independence, it will be up to its leaders and once proud patriotic people to lead them through this unstable period...


What do you think? They are from the Yugoslav Wars mod so maybe a bit to late in time frame?
Say if you need something more

[kiahoga]

Okay I've finished my essential rough draft of the Infantry and Armor Tech tree now it's time to go back and flesh them out some. I.E. define what 5 sub areas are being researched for each tech. But I wanted some feedback now each of theese are to be multi year techs so how much research should there be needed like 15 or 20 maybe even 25 for the 5 years techs with as little as 10 for the 1 to two year techs.

[tuore]

Tuore, is there a planned date for .41 ? I want to know when i need to email my latest US files.

I guess you should change my description on the first post to US Ministers, Leaders, and Events. Right now I am looking up US military leaders (37 identified, 20 ingame sofar)

EDIT: Here's a look. Still working on Ranks Skills etc...

Looks good! No planned update date yet, since I will upload new versions when a certain amount of data is gathered.

Descriptions for Albania and Yugoslavia:

Albania:

Albania, recently regaining its independence from the Axis occupation of World War II, was the only Country in the East that was able to throw the Germans out without the assistance of Communist Troops.
Enver Hoxha, a French-Educated Politican became the leader of the Communist Party, and ruled the country with an iron fist for almost 40 Years, established an Alliance with the Soviet Union. After breaking with the Soviet Union, Albania was closely tied to Mao Zedong's China,
receiving a lot of aid from the Asian power. In the 70s, following the death of Mao Zedong and the ending of Albania's political ties with China, a lot of state officials were purged in the 70s.
Following the Death of Enver Hoxha, the Iron Fisted Dictator of Albania, only time may tell what the future of this country might be, a country that has fought so hard and long for its independence...

Yugoslavia:

The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia has its origins in the ending of the Second World War, as Yugoslav Partisans took control of the Area after Nazi Germany's surrender, and established the FPRY, or the Federative People's Republic of Yugoslavia.
Its first President, Ivan Ribar, ruled for 7 years after being succeeded by Josip Broz - Tito, the former Prime Minister of Ribar's Cabinet. Tito allied Yugoslavia with the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, the Soviet Dictator, and the Yugoslav Army shot down 2 American Airplanes that flew over Yugoslav Airspace.
This caused a deep distrust of Tito in the US, and even Stalin himself distrusted Tito.
In 1948, a Crisis between Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union led to the end of all remaining friendly relations between the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.
Yugoslavia was now free from the Soviet Union, and formed its own Communism, called "Titoism".
Yugoslavia remained neutral in the Cold War, and now, with several cultural groups demanding independence, it will be up to its leaders and once proud patriotic people to lead them through this unstable period...


What do you think? They are from the Yugoslav Wars mod so maybe a bit to late in time frame?
Say if you need something more

Thanks, I'll add them.

Okay I've finished my essential rough draft of the Infantry and Armor Tech tree now it's time to go back and flesh them out some. I.E. define what 5 sub areas are being researched for each tech. But I wanted some feedback now each of theese are to be multi year techs so how much research should there be needed like 15 or 20 maybe even 25 for the 5 years techs with as little as 10 for the 1 to two year techs.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, are you talking about how "hard" it is to develop a tech?

[RedPhalanx]

Okay I've finished my essential rough draft of the Infantry and Armor Tech tree now it's time to go back and flesh them out some. I.E. define what 5 sub areas are being researched for each tech. But I wanted some feedback now each of theese are to be multi year techs so how much research should there be needed like 15 or 20 maybe even 25 for the 5 years techs with as little as 10 for the 1 to two year techs.

You could also do where techs are around 10 to research, but raise the "researching tech before it's time" penalty. So the 1995 tech is easier to research in 1995, but nigh-impossible in 1993, for example.