I'm opposed to this. I prefer the original ideological names.
Why haven't you entered this mode into the AOD mod contest?
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I'm opposed to this. I prefer the original ideological names.
Why haven't you entered this mode into the AOD mod contest?
Really? So you no longer need to make sure you have a proper ratio of units in AoD to get the combined arms bonus? Because that'd be awesome!
danielshannon said:
I have to say I agree. I think the names as they stand work rather elegantly and are pretty good at reflecting the distinctions of various ideologies even past the Second World War. The only problem I can think of is "National Socialism" which is a bit of a problem because it really only refers to Nazism. I can't really think of a replacement term though, since it was primarily fascism with a special emphasis on racial purity.
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Because i didn't know about the contest
As for your opposition to name changes, I hear your opinion. I note that MDS, which you support, makes a lot of changes you're opposed to.
If nothing else I'd like to throw out "National Socialism" though. It doesn't sound right for a mod covering 1930-2025, and is too specific to Germany. I'll go with "Absolutist" unless someone has a better idea.
Most of the others will stay, but I'd like to take a second look at Social Conservative, market Liberal and Social Liberal. Those terms are not widely used. If you look at politics worldwide, "Conservative" and "Liberal" are the most commonly used terms, and the word "Center" appears quite often in analysis. And most of the "Liberal" parties are definitely to the right of the Social Democrats.
So for now
NS-->Absolutist
FA PA SD LWR LE ST --> keep current terminology
CS ML SL --> get more responses.
alright for events, imma give you some of the events i know, imma not put them in correct order though
-The cuban revolution (in which fidel castro took the cuban capital on january 1st 1959 and the president escaped from cuba) basically this the begining of the cold war getting a bit hotter
-The Algerian war in 1954-1962 in which algeria gained independence
-The Mau Mau Uprising between 1952-1960 in which Kenya elected it's own leader, and kicked britain out of there
-Libya in December 24 1951 from Britain
-Sudanese independence on january 1st on 1956 from britain
-Morroco independence from france on march 2nd 1956, and indpendence from spain on april 7 1956 ( spain and france held morrocan territory, and each gave it up to morroco
-Tunisia on March 20 1956 from france
-Ghana on March 6 1957 from britain
-october 4 1957, soviet union launches sputnik 1
-The Great Leap Forward in the PRC
-The North American Aerospace Defense Command or NORAD was created between the US and Canada may 12 1958
-the Guatemalan coup d'etat on june 18 1954, on june 27 Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán resigned, and Carlos Castillo Armas, the coup leader, was put in charge of the country
Did i miss anything ?
-The cuban revolution (in which fidel castro took the cuban capital on january 1st 1959 and the president escaped from cuba) basically this the begining of the cold war getting a bit hotter
-The Algerian war in 1954-1962 in which algeria gained independence
-The Mau Mau Uprising between 1952-1960 in which Kenya elected it's own leader, and kicked britain out of there
-Libya in December 24 1951 from Britain
-Sudanese independence on january 1st on 1956 from britain
-Morroco independence from france on march 2nd 1956, and indpendence from spain on april 7 1956 ( spain and france held morrocan territory, and each gave it up to morroco
-Tunisia on March 20 1956 from france
-Ghana on March 6 1957 from britain
-october 4 1957, soviet union launches sputnik 1
-The Great Leap Forward in the PRC
-The North American Aerospace Defense Command or NORAD was created between the US and Canada may 12 1958
-the Guatemalan coup d'etat on june 18 1954, on june 27 Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán resigned, and Carlos Castillo Armas, the coup leader, was put in charge of the country
Did i miss anything ?
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maybe also
Stalin Note:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_note
Malayan Emergency:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency
nomonhan, why dont you make a coop with the NWO mod http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484595 ?
i mean thats a hill of work and both of you seem to be quite talented in modding.
Stalin Note:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_note
Malayan Emergency:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency
nomonhan, why dont you make a coop with the NWO mod http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484595 ?
i mean thats a hill of work and both of you seem to be quite talented in modding.
Bestmajor does have a good point I mean if that other mod has alot of the work done already it could be great to add everything from your mod, and that way the Post War world could be done allowing you to focus on things after 1963.
Anyways Nomonhon, I re-ran my scenario with the lastest update for cold war, Korea triggered in 1950, but I think the AI relies entirely too much on the state of the PRC since in my game the Nationalists did not collapse until like September of 1950, two weeks later South Korea went to war with North Korea, so not sure there if I remember correctly North Korea was the agressor in that war was it not?
I'll continue to run some more games and in the mean time I'll see about getting you the save files, I have to go through and figure out which ones will be needed to give you the best reprsentation of what occured in that game.
Anyways Nomonhon, I re-ran my scenario with the lastest update for cold war, Korea triggered in 1950, but I think the AI relies entirely too much on the state of the PRC since in my game the Nationalists did not collapse until like September of 1950, two weeks later South Korea went to war with North Korea, so not sure there if I remember correctly North Korea was the agressor in that war was it not?
I'll continue to run some more games and in the mean time I'll see about getting you the save files, I have to go through and figure out which ones will be needed to give you the best reprsentation of what occured in that game.
Well, I didn't come up with the ideological spectrum for MDS, I just made US ministers and events for them. So, I don't see how that is relevant.
Re an alternative for National Socialism - Absolutist just doesn't seem appropriate for the time frame. When I think absolutist, I think absolute monarchies, not modern totalitarianism.
Perhaps you could change National Socialism to "Far Right Totalitarianism", "Totalitarian Nationalists", or "Syncretic Fascism."
Alternatively, you could just rename National Socialism as Fascism and rename fascism as "Right Wing Corporatism" or "Right Wing radicals."
OK thanks for your thoughts.
NS-->Totalitarian Nationalist (that pretty much describes all movements that you would label as such, and may or may not include racism. IMO it would be a better description for Japan if it made the alternate choice in the 2-26 incident.)
Will leave the rest as is unless I get some more comments.
The reason for the linkage to the Communists winning the Civil War is that Kim Il Sung only started the war after Mao consented. So if the Nationalists ahistorically win the civil war, then there is no Korean war, and no Vietnam War either, because Ho Chi Minh would never have been able to succeed at Dienbienphu without artillery pieces from China. It has the secondary effect of avoiding a silly Korean War when Germany makes an alliance with England, annexes the Soviet Union, and faces off against the Americans in China and Korea. Normally Germany would release Korea but in vanilla, Korea would split up for no reason and go to war with itself, and I've seen several AARs where this is an issue and actually affects the balance of power, including the AAR that led to the 64 mod.
NS-->Totalitarian Nationalist (that pretty much describes all movements that you would label as such, and may or may not include racism. IMO it would be a better description for Japan if it made the alternate choice in the 2-26 incident.)
Will leave the rest as is unless I get some more comments.
Yes, North Korea was in fact the aggressor. The reason for doing it this way is to make sure all countries are out of their alliances so that WW3 does not result. First NK leaves the alliance, and triggers the SK event to also leave the alliance and start the war. In previous editions a NK DOW sometimes resulted in WW3. Even though SK formally DOWs NK, NK gets charged with the belligerence for the DOW. The SK "DOW" only takes place after Kim Il Sung declares that Korea must be unified by force. However this is becoming a political football so I'll introduce an extra event in 0.16 so that NK actually does the DOW.
The reason for the linkage to the Communists winning the Civil War is that Kim Il Sung only started the war after Mao consented. So if the Nationalists ahistorically win the civil war, then there is no Korean war, and no Vietnam War either, because Ho Chi Minh would never have been able to succeed at Dienbienphu without artillery pieces from China. It has the secondary effect of avoiding a silly Korean War when Germany makes an alliance with England, annexes the Soviet Union, and faces off against the Americans in China and Korea. Normally Germany would release Korea but in vanilla, Korea would split up for no reason and go to war with itself, and I've seen several AARs where this is an issue and actually affects the balance of power, including the AAR that led to the 64 mod.
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Right, stupid me lol, of course it would have to rely on the PRC winning cause they even got involved in Korea directly. Ok anyways then maybe the next stop would to be trying to fine tune the Chinese Civil War? I mean I know you already said you put work into it, trying to think of how to make it so that on certain dates stuff will trigger that will hurt the nationalists more and bring it closer to an october of '49 victory. If anything I think it needs to end sooner then later, but it is a hard goal.
Or we can leave it as is, I mean maybe it's not everyone's game, I can run a few more and maybe go back into my saves as Nationalist China and see why they held out for so long. Perhaps maybe the Communist AI isn't agressive enough?
Or we can leave it as is, I mean maybe it's not everyone's game, I can run a few more and maybe go back into my saves as Nationalist China and see why they held out for so long. Perhaps maybe the Communist AI isn't agressive enough?
Just a quick bug note, Nomonhan. I found that the 1980 paratrooper causes a CTD when you try to start research on it. I got around it by going into the files and causing the 1970 version to open both 1980 and 1990. All the other items that I researched worked well, though. There's so much to explore in this mod, so thanks for all the hard work in it.
CA works on the softness of the unit as a whole, so the mix of divisions (as well as the divisions themselves and their brigade attachments) is still -important - it's just that there is no fixed unit mix or ratio that you have to keep to. Pure Mech on their own will get a good CA bonus, because they are already "mixed arms" divisions.
I found that the range of the light cruiser model 11 in the light_cruiser.txt file should be changed to 20000. Currently the range is 5000 but the model is described as a nuclear powered ship.
In regard to the capitalist/democratic ideologies, I feel that Conservative, Centrist and Liberal really refer more to political parties in regards to how they fit on a sliding right-left scale, whereas the terms currently used are better to describe specific ideologies. Each of these, Social Conservative, Market Liberal, Social Liberal and Social Democracy, have entries on Wikipedia for instance, describing their political philosophies.
I think they should remain if only because the right-left scale isn't really sufficient to describe these ideologies. As an example, Market Liberal refers to Libertarianism or Classical Liberal politics, and therefore it's financially "right-wing" or conservative, but it doesn't have the same moralistic, traditionalist emphasis that Social Conservatism does.
I think they should remain if only because the right-left scale isn't really sufficient to describe these ideologies. As an example, Market Liberal refers to Libertarianism or Classical Liberal politics, and therefore it's financially "right-wing" or conservative, but it doesn't have the same moralistic, traditionalist emphasis that Social Conservatism does.
I personally prefer this way of thinking about political philosophy. It better explains the concept of "ideological closeness" than the "left-right" thing, which actually derived from where the politicians sat in the French legislature.
However, I'm not going to fix hundreds of files and completely redesign the game because of Paradox's mistake. The only problem I have with "Totalitarian Nationalist" is the length of the name string, but it seems to fit. Another good idea would be "Ultra-nationalist"
I'll submit 3 ideas for voting (for "National Socialist" replacement)
1-Totalitarian Nationalist
2-Right Totalitarian
3-Ultra-nationalist
Other ideas (FA)
1- keep as is (Fascist)
2- change to 'Corporatist'
LWR
1- keep as is (Left wing radical)
2- change to 'Radical socialist'
LE
1- keep as is (Leninist)
2- change to 'Communist'
ST (added)
1- keep as is (Stalinist)
2- change to 'Totalitarian Communist'
3- change to 'Left Totalitarian'
4- change to 'Hard-Line Communist'
SC/ML/SL
1- keep as is (Social Conservative/Market Liberal/Social Liberal)
2- change to Conservative/Centrist/Liberal
3- change to Conservative/Free-Market/Liberal
SD and PA will be left alone.
@EmpressAria
Re: Chinese Civil War. Due to the changed battle mechanics in AOD, it takes longer for the Communists to win the Civil War. Also the new AI makes them go after Xibei San Ma before they finish off the Nationalists. Therefore I'm going to introduce a couple of tweaks in 0.16. I agree that the Chinese Civil War should end on or ahead of schedule. Can you upload a savegame please? I suspect if the Nationalists are doing better than usual it's because of an abnormal decision regarding the Jan 1946 cease-fire. Edit: Did some tweaking and changed the Chief of Army to Zhu De Game 1--Communists won by late 48 Game 2--Soviets made ahistorical decision that 'Mao Needs No Aid'. It took until 1951 for the Commies to win.
@mldusk
can you upload a savegame please?
@Future2063
Thank you for the bug report. It will be fixed in 0.16.
However, I'm not going to fix hundreds of files and completely redesign the game because of Paradox's mistake. The only problem I have with "Totalitarian Nationalist" is the length of the name string, but it seems to fit. Another good idea would be "Ultra-nationalist"
I'll submit 3 ideas for voting (for "National Socialist" replacement)
1-Totalitarian Nationalist
2-Right Totalitarian
3-Ultra-nationalist
Other ideas (FA)
1- keep as is (Fascist)
2- change to 'Corporatist'
LWR
1- keep as is (Left wing radical)
2- change to 'Radical socialist'
LE
1- keep as is (Leninist)
2- change to 'Communist'
ST (added)
1- keep as is (Stalinist)
2- change to 'Totalitarian Communist'
3- change to 'Left Totalitarian'
4- change to 'Hard-Line Communist'
SC/ML/SL
1- keep as is (Social Conservative/Market Liberal/Social Liberal)
2- change to Conservative/Centrist/Liberal
3- change to Conservative/Free-Market/Liberal
SD and PA will be left alone.
@EmpressAria
Re: Chinese Civil War. Due to the changed battle mechanics in AOD, it takes longer for the Communists to win the Civil War. Also the new AI makes them go after Xibei San Ma before they finish off the Nationalists. Therefore I'm going to introduce a couple of tweaks in 0.16. I agree that the Chinese Civil War should end on or ahead of schedule. Can you upload a savegame please? I suspect if the Nationalists are doing better than usual it's because of an abnormal decision regarding the Jan 1946 cease-fire. Edit: Did some tweaking and changed the Chief of Army to Zhu De Game 1--Communists won by late 48 Game 2--Soviets made ahistorical decision that 'Mao Needs No Aid'. It took until 1951 for the Commies to win.
@mldusk
can you upload a savegame please?
@Future2063
Thank you for the bug report. It will be fixed in 0.16.
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Re: ideologies all seem to be win win except ST. Why are we still sticking to a personality driven names here with Stalin? why not Totalitarian Communism or some such, as its pretty total in its control 
?
Otherwise I vote for Totalitarian Nationalism, Corporatis/tism, Radical Socialist & Communist.
?Otherwise I vote for Totalitarian Nationalism, Corporatis/tism, Radical Socialist & Communist.
I've had some second thoughts on some of these issues. Stalinism was never a terms used by people like Mao to describe their policies. It was mostly used by people denouncing Stalin's policies.
NS -Totalitarian Nationalism
FA - Fascism
PA - Paternal Autocrat
SC - Social Conservatives
ML - Market Liberals
SL - Social Liberals
SD - Social Democrats
LWR - Left Wing Radicals (since that works for anarchists and the like)
LE - Marxism-Leninism
ST - Totalitarian Communism
NS -Totalitarian Nationalism
FA - Fascism
PA - Paternal Autocrat
SC - Social Conservatives
ML - Market Liberals
SL - Social Liberals
SD - Social Democrats
LWR - Left Wing Radicals (since that works for anarchists and the like)
LE - Marxism-Leninism
ST - Totalitarian Communism
@IceHawk
added vote category for ST
@danielshannon
Thanks for your comments. The only thing with "Marxist-Leninist' is that it is a term that every fringe communist group likes to call themselves. While the vote is going on, would you care to do a USA ministers file and election events?
added vote category for ST
@danielshannon
Thanks for your comments. The only thing with "Marxist-Leninist' is that it is a term that every fringe communist group likes to call themselves. While the vote is going on, would you care to do a USA ministers file and election events?
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This.
But I'd change:
SC - Conservative
ML - Centrist or something else
SL - Liberal
LE - Leninism or something else. Communism maybe (but still keeping ST as "Totalitarian Communism")?