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Thread: Cold War Extension for AoD

  1. #461
    Er, this might seem rude, but I just realized that I might have cause to be mentioned in the Credits.
    Quote Originally Posted by nomonhan View Post
    Looks great. Believe it or not I haven't seen a propaganda picture for Scandinavia anywhere. Thanks. I'll use it in my mod (you get credit) and maybe Rodrico Stak would like it too.
    Sorry for the lack of actual contribution; have not been able to play AOD lately, for a number of reasons.

  2. #462
    Colonel Keioel's Avatar
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    Hmm good point on the cores, unless of course they ended up doing Zionism on steroids your right. I think 3 should come into play depending on HOW the peace treaty is rejected. Perhaps you could have two levels, one where they just don't accept the peace treaty and one where they not only reject the peace treaty but call for the "continued" extinction of Israel. Also maybe have the 2nd option in the peace treaty remove any cores they have on Israel as a sign that while peace hasn't been concluded they're also no longer trying to push the Jews into the ocean.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomonhan View Post
    Think I'll give them a choice of
    1) release a puppet
    2) request formal peace treaty
    If formal peace treaty is ahistorically accepted-->Lebanon or other conquered country released, and commercial deals, maybe formation of AMEN (Association of Middle Eastern Nations)
    If peace treaty (likely) rejected--> continued occupation, but as for cores that would take an EXTREMELY long time. One of the issues is that the Jews would be a distinct minority and there would be strong internal pressures to either secularize or grant autonomy.
    3) possibly ahistorical hardline stand of simply declaring the territory permanently annexed

  3. #463
    LordInsane,
    You can use anything you want with credit. You don't have to ask about individual items.

    @Keioel,
    After much thought I decided that direct Israeli rule over Lebanon, Jordan or whatever would require modification of Israeli internal politics--either a secularization of the state (civil rights leaders coded as social democrats) or a hard-line rightist regime (PA dictatorship). All Israeli elections would have to be voided, and additional ministers would need to be found. It would not be an impossible job, but in order to keep things simple, I'll just go with release of a puppet. This would clearly be best for Israel's public image. This situation would not occur very often anyway. The Arab states almost always choose "Send material and volunteers" in the 1948 war, and the Palestinians don't normally win unless they're commanded by an expert human commander.

    However, the additional possibilities might be added later if other things are taken care of.
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    "I have talked to my Japanese friends. They said, 'We are sorry, the Imperial Japanese army invaded China.' I told them, 'No! If your Imperial army did not occupy half of China, the people of China would not have united against you, and the Chinese Communist Party will not be in power today.'" -- Mao Zedong (1964.Jul.10)

  4. #464
    Colonel Keioel's Avatar
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    Agreed. They'd have to be pretty pissed off to consider it and it would necessarily require a change of governmental structure.
    Last edited by Keioel; 01-07-2010 at 02:38.

  5. #465
    Colonel Keioel's Avatar
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    Bitter peace missed province 140 in Finland.

    Also I hate Germany right now for making me take the whole bloody thing as Italy. It finally triggered in 1949...my TC load is just frightening.

  6. #466
    for the israeli thing, if u change the internal politics, then u gotta take away US support, since they will probably vote to take away support in congress, because they only support democracies
    "I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth - rocks!" - Albert Einstein

  7. #467
    Second Lieutenant scalvi94's Avatar
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    Just played my first game as Communist China in the Cold War Scenario. Fantastic job on this scenario Nomonohan. Lots of events, stable have had no problems with it at all. Outside of not taking the 1946 6 month Cease Fire and the Soviets Disowning me which was awesome. I had a big Nat Chi army surrounded in the north and didn't want to miss the chance to eliminate them.
    Great Job on this. I am up to June 1950 now and am really enjoying it. Thanks again for you and everyone else's hard work on this Mod.

  8. #468
    Thanks for the appreciation. Normally Communist China should take the cease fire but if you're on a roll it's pretty hard to lay down arms and be forced to win territory all over again.
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  9. #469
    Colonel Keioel's Avatar
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    Italy can get an atomic bomb right? Cause it's 1951 and it still hasn't triggered...and I think I might need one to breach England to say nothing of the US, but right now planning on a conventional invasion.

    Edit: Also Enrico Fermi events don't work because he still disappears in 1939 since you didn't modify his end date.
    Last edited by Keioel; 03-07-2010 at 02:16.

  10. #470
    The other issue with Fermi is that AOD changed the numbers of a LOT of tech teams so that scenarios and events coded around certain team numbers don't work properly. Fermi got renumbered. It turns out that AOD added another Italian nuclear scientist. Find Edoardo Amaldi. Set his end date to 1954 (Fermi's death) and add this event

    event = {
    id = [your number here]
    random = no
    country = ITA

    #

    name = "Enrico Fermi"
    desc = "EVENT TEXT"

    #

    action_a = {
    name = "OK"
    command = { type = sleepteam which = 1814 }#Fermi AOD
    command = { type = waketeam which = 1812 }#Edoardo Amaldi
    command = { type = set_team_skill which = 1812 value = 8 }
    }
    }
    replacing the one you've got in the Italy file. Fire it from the console

    In 0.15 I'll have an Italy file with the old numbers restored.
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  11. #471
    General Samilou's Avatar
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    Been playing the Cold War in MP with Azzinoth, me as the USA and he as the USSR, it is currently 1950.

    Here are some issues we want to put to your attention: The Korean war remains unbalanced with an almost immediate Southern victory, and the USA always enters the Korean war even if they pick UN police action instead of option a, although they in that case don't enter with South Korea in their alliance... War ends in august-september 1950 without any human intervention, very few events for North Korea get the time to fire by then. Perhaps you should drastically nerf the South Korean army especially at the start to reflect that this army was unprepared for war and mostly composed by newly trained conscripts, while the starting North Korean army could use a large boost with experience, reflecting that these were largely composed of experienced veteran troops having fought in WW2 in Europe and against the Japanese.

    Iran, Ethiopia, Phillippines, Liberia and many other nations remain puppets of their respective pre-1945 puppet masters indefinitely.

    Various allies of the USA in latin America never leave the allies.

    Nato and Warsaw Pact events missing.

    Persia and Spain always declare war on North Korea as soon as the war starts, even if they are not in the alliance, this often results in war with the Soviet Union as well once the Korean war is over if North Korea rejoins the Soviet alliance (which is not entirely historical I believe, since North Korea ended up a Chinese ally in RL?).



    Some additional suggestions: Should consider adding techs to increase the max nuclear test reactor size and/or nuclear bomb production speed to reflect mass-production of nuclear weapons as in RL. I would prefer to first of all increase the maximum reactor size to enable the player to affect the amount of nuclear weapons produced.
    Last edited by Samilou; 03-07-2010 at 19:31.
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  12. #472
    Colonel Keioel's Avatar
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    Thanks Nomonhan, I just increased the death date of all people to 1980 cause I was to lazy to look them all up...also, doesn't Italy have ANYONE who knew carrier tactics...the war is 1952 and THANK GOD you changed the Lend Lease events...I'm playing with .14 before the change and UK is over 500 IC in the Home Islands...sigh taking them is gonna be problematical.

  13. #473
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    Quick update - Coal deposits are progressing pretty well & I should have them up Sun or Mon. After that only rares left.

    Overall it appears that there will be ~3500-4000 energy from natural gas, ~6000+ energy from coal (~10k total) & ~5000 metal.
    This should allow for extra 5000IC to come online by ~2020 without any infrastructure developments. Now all that needs to be drawn up are 2500 rare metal deposits.

    Any input regarding the metal & gas events so far?
    Last edited by iceHawk; 04-07-2010 at 08:19.

  14. #474
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    Level 10 reactor finished and my next nuclear weapon will not be ready until October 23, 2230...

  15. #475

    Cold War Rebalances

    As with Samilou I also experienced major Korean war imbalances, Though I partialy blame that due to the small amount of provinces to work with, at least compared to say, the Hearts of Iron III map, it's hard to recreate the "small" wars like Korea and the independence of Israel.

    As it stands I played as Greece to monitor the Greek Civl War and it's Events then when the events to liberate Japan came along I switched over to see what it'd be like to control Japan Post War. Anyways what happened is that the Korean War between North and South Started early, 1947 or early 48 if I recall.

    And bassically nothing happened for like 2 years and then bang out of nowhere 60 US divisons assualt the capital of North Korea in like January of 1950, then within a month the North Korean Army bassiaclly dissolves under the weight of the assualt and by Feb 2nd North Korea is Annexed by the US.

    The problem with this is that less then like a week later the USSR goes to war with the US and World War III starts and all hell breaks lose, being pissed in losing Korea or something, not saying that's not a plausible scenario but perhaps that could be handled by an event like a "The DPRK falls to the ROK" and then like have several options on how to handle it. One of the options being like "A great loss for communism" then have like some drawbacks.

    Also though I too experienced the odd alliances like Indochina being allied, countries from half way around the world DoW'ing North Korea etc...

    Couple other things though I did also see, now granted not everything can be tuned to be completely like reality cause let's face it this is very much a sandbox game at times, and hey it's honestly fun to actually see if the Cold War goes hot, it just seems to happen way too easily.

    Ok first being that as soon as WWIII started, as Japan I was the target of the first Soviet Nuclear strike, almost a full three years before the Soviets actually got thier first atomic weapon. Is there anyway to nerf this so that perhaps the USSR cannot aquire the bomb so quickly, or is that all AI based?

    Next, and as a problem with many scenarios post War is the sheer amount of troops that many countries maintain, I mean maybe perhaps I should do more research and on the closer inspection I did see that the USSR had little manpower left I just feel that both the USSR and USA have way too many divisions that never go away. The other thing I ran into as well was that Soviet Divisions do not deal with Warsaw Pact defense well, when WWIII starts the USSR just bassically sits with it's 500 Division armies well within thier own borders and rarely budges.

    Anyways this is a long report just figure to keep you informed about what problems I saw and sadly since I'm not a modder I'm not sure what's in your power to change since perhaps many of these problems are inherent restrictions of the game engine.

  16. #476
    icehawk, great work on mineral deposits and that stuff, just one thing missing, where should i paste the mineral event thingies
    "I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth - rocks!" - Albert Einstein

  17. #477
    Captain iceHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali_1882 View Post
    icehawk, great work on mineral deposits and that stuff, just one thing missing, where should i paste the mineral event thingies
    Quite easy actually. Simply take the code for the various resources posted here & paste them in various txt files - for example oil.txt, gas.txt, metal.txt etc.
    Copy those into the db\events\ folder
    Then you need to open up the perspective campaign you want to play (example 1936 campain would be in the \scenarios\gc_1936.eug)
    Scroll down into the event codes & add the perspective event txt files ie.
    include = "db\events\gas.txt"
    include = "db\events\oil.txt"
    include = "db\events\metal.txt"
    That should do it. Im assuming the next release of CWE should have them modded properly in but until that time this should do.
    Note that coal & rares are still missing so as the decades roll by you might end up with a shortage of energy & rares. Ill have coal up later today/tomorrow worst case & rares by end of week.

  18. #478
    Your mod time line is reaching far to 1990 so you should make scenerios for 1989 at the last year of Soviet Russia.

    I mean put something new on the mod I begin to get sick from ww2 but dont forget to add nuclear rules of course using nukes must create huge dissent for every country to prevent their usage for being too many...
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  19. #479
    Someone PLEASE post a link to a save file just before the Korean war starts so I can figure out exactly what is going on. Something obviously got lost in the translation of the mod to AOD. Most likely some AI files need fixing. Due to structural changes in AOD I cannot simply copy everything over. Just go back to your last autosave if the war has already started. If you have Vista or windows 7 the savegame file is in "Compatibility files".

    As for 1990 I plan to take things one thing at a time. The first thing is to debug the Korean War, so that I can get to 1956 for the Sinai War. Then 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. Then about 1975 (Indochina --> communist), etc.

    Korean war is supposed to be a proxy war, with events to create divisions, a standoff and Chinese intervention. It's only supposed to be WW3 if the USA makes an ahistoric choice and then there are usually nukes exchanged between the USA and USSR.

    NATO and Warsaw pacts may not be created in full historic detail. I'm assuming the alliances exist in prototype form since 1945.

    The Nuclear Rules will generally prevent nuclear war in the cold war era unless the US and USSR get in an open war. For other "cold wars" the "loss of territory or enemy authorizes first" rule applies. Example--if the Arabs succeed in taking some territory from Israel they will use nukes if they have them.

    And before anyone asks again, in the unlikely event that the Arabs choose open war in 1948 but get one of their countries annexed, I will have Israel release puppets as soon as the war is over--UNLESS their government is fascist. As Israel is democratic upon release, that is extremely unlikely, and will only happen if someone does a savegame, reloads as Israel and plays with the sliders. In that case the USER WHO DOES THAT will have the responsibility for reconciling his actions with reality. That will be in 0.15. This is not accounted for as of yet, so I suggest if that happens just load as Israel and release a puppet manually or write your own event.
    Last edited by nomonhan; 05-07-2010 at 04:56.
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  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by nomonhan View Post
    Someone PLEASE post a link to a save file just before the Korean war starts so I can figure out exactly what is going on. Something obviously got lost in the translation of the mod to AOD. Most likely some AI files need fixing. Due to structural changes in AOD I cannot simply copy everything over. Just go back to your last autosave if the war has already started. If you have Vista or windows 7 the savegame file is in "Compatibility files".

    As for 1990 I plan to take things one thing at a time. The first thing is to debug the Korean War, so that I can get to 1956 for the Sinai War. Then 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. Then about 1975 (Indochina --> communist), etc.

    Korean war is supposed to be a proxy war, with events to create divisions, a standoff and Chinese intervention. It's only supposed to be WW3 if the USA makes an ahistoric choice and then there are usually nukes exchanged between the USA and USSR.

    NATO and Warsaw pacts may not be created in full historic detail. I'm assuming the alliances exist in prototype form since 1945.

    The Nuclear Rules will generally prevent nuclear war in the cold war era unless the US and USSR get in an open war. For other "cold wars" the "loss of territory or enemy authorizes first" rule applies. Example--if the Arabs succeed in taking some territory from Israel they will use nukes if they have them.

    And before anyone asks again, in the unlikely event that the Arabs choose open war in 1948 but get one of their countries annexed, I will have Israel release puppets as soon as the war is over--UNLESS their government is fascist. As Israel is democratic upon release, that is extremely unlikely, and will only happen if someone does a savegame, reloads as Israel and plays with the sliders. In that case the USER WHO DOES THAT will have the responsibility for reconciling his actions with reality. That will be in 0.15. This is not accounted for as of yet, so I suggest if that happens just load as Israel and release a puppet manually or write your own event.
    But even Ussr and Usa goes open war there should be still massive dissent for using nuclear weapons cause in 1980 both sides has hundreas of nukes lets just put the game and say that you give them 100 nukes each thats too much even 50 nukes is much what happens if I lauch them first the enemy nation goes off before war.That is how would happen in realworld of course but its not fun to play.If I use a nuke as Usa give me 30 or 40 dissent and same for Ussr so I use them at minimum numbers and only If I have no other choice...

    Hope you understand my point of course its your mod and its up to you to decide...
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