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Africa in Vicky 2

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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At this point all we can do is wait and see what is developed and then go from there.

Though who knows, given that just about everything else in Clausewitz-engine type games can be modded, perhaps there could be new forms of government added in by modders in addition to the ones that were in base V1 (monarchy, con-mon, democracy, pres-dictatorship, prol-dictatorship). If that could be done, the the modders could add in things from EU3 like tribal federation etc as Forms of Government as well.
 
Quarto said:
Yes, but... do you have any ideas how this could be done properly in Victoria? I'm sure you'll agree that the way you guys implemented these states in VIP was, at best, very problematic. The existence of these states hugely sped up colonisation. This was circumvented by creating "African mobilisation" events - but that was just so terribly wrong, especially since, IIRC, these events faded out over time, in order to allow these places to be colonised as history saw fit. Granted, under the premise that we must show African states on the map, this was probably the least-worst solution - but it's still not a good solution. I would argue that a decent colonisation system, where you need to dispatch troops to take control of a colony and all that, would be far more appropriate.

At the end of the day, these tribal states were simply not in the same league as the rest of the world, even the rest of the uncivilised world. Depicting the Zulus as a state of comparable complexity as Oman or China just doesn't make sense. Unless Paradox decides to create a third tier of states - unplayable, tribal societies that cannot conduct war outside of their own borders and whose territories can be taken without a peace treaty, I would say these tribal states should stay out of the game. Otherwise, we'll wind up with terrible history in an attempt to wipe out bad history :).
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Some of these issues could be avoided with the implementation of a the new beaurocracy pop. A limited supply of these pops can help limit the effective speed at which you can successfully colonize and control these kingdoms. Essentially, just because you can conquer the provinces doesn't mean you'll capable of holding them or making them anything more than a money sink which slows you economy down. If beaurocrat pop growth is moddled properly we can help discourage the excessive and early colonization of africa. Atleast earlier in the game, countries can be faced with a shortage of these pops at home or in other pre existing colonies. If you choose to colonize early or expand to quickly in colonial territories, you suffer in other areas where these pops are needed.
 
Africa was definately under-done in Victoria I. Many more states should be added, however as some have suggested there must be a new level of state in addition to Civilized and uncivilized, because to compare these societies to ancient civilizations such as China and Persia, is just not right. Technologically they were much more backwards. Now, the VIP version of Africa in which almost every single square inch of land has a sovereign nation on it, is just as bad as having only a few nations in all of Africa. I believe it was only done that way by VIP because of game limitations and that with a whole new game it wouldn't be necessarry to do so, right?
 
This could also mean a new possibility for Great Powers. If being a Great Power you could have a specific war goal for those kingdoms in Africa. Basically defeating them and adding them as colonies. A bit like in HTTT, but with Vicky style i suppose. With King saying they are gonna add those things from HTTT and extending it, it would give an additional incentive to to maintain Great Power status if you can exploit those countries *evil grin* Ok, i know its a bad thing to do, but its historical ;)
 
I would truthfully like for them to work on the main countries in the game before they try and "spice" up Africa. From my count I've seen two people who have wanted to play Ethiopia. Thats all well and good, but I would rather play Prussia, USA, CSA, Russia, France, Austria, and a good number of other countries before I would even consider playing one from Africa.

I do understand people wanting the challenge, its like taking a minor minor minor minor nation in HOI and conquering the known world. Its not something everyone does, other would rather play the main nations. I am predicting that VIP will do most of the work on Africa similar to Vicky 1.
 
I would truthfully like for them to work on the main countries in the game before they try and "spice" up Africa. From my count I've seen two people who have wanted to play Ethiopia. Thats all well and good, but I would rather play Prussia, USA, CSA, Russia, France, Austria, and a good number of other countries before I would even consider playing one from Africa.
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I would also like to try my hand at Ethiopia.

Also, two of the six natiosn you listed as ones you would most want to play (Prussia/Germany and France), would be significantly affected by happenings in Africa (colonialism), and all of them could a-historically get involved in Africa.
 
Dutch said:
I would truthfully like for them to work on the main countries in the game before they try and "spice" up Africa. From my count I've seen two people who have wanted to play Ethiopia. Thats all well and good, but I would rather play Prussia, USA, CSA, Russia, France, Austria, and a good number of other countries before I would even consider playing one from Africa.

I do understand people wanting the challenge, its like taking a minor minor minor minor nation in HOI and conquering the known world. Its not something everyone does, other would rather play the main nations. I am predicting that VIP will do most of the work on Africa similar to Vicky 1.
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But the research is done for the European nations already, that's why they kept the same date. They have only one scenario to work on, too, so they have to do one scenario set-up.
 
Revived with a vengeance after seeing the terrible ahistoric map for Ethiopia with 1920 borders and Egypt controlling all Sudan in 1836. More certain than ever that Africa won't get a fair treatment if we don't shout loud enough. Consider this a loud SHOUT!!!
 
King said:
Africa is in Victoria 2, you'll find it just below Europe.
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I don't even see why you bothered answering this thread, this reply was pointless.
 
I considered this thread pretty pointless until I noticed that someone from PI actually bothered to reply.

Appropriate reply to the thread, I thought.:D
 
OHgamer said:
As Tewodoros did not unify Ethiopia until the late 1840s early 1850s, Ethiopia really should be depicted as three separate states at the start (Gonder, Tigre and Shoa) with each of them having the ability to form the larger unit of Ethiopia, much as the German States can have the possibility to form Germany.

As for the rest of sub-Saharan Africa, I'd love to see more nations added so that this ridiculous notion that Africa was mainly a land of acephalous, stateless societies who welcomes the establishment of colonial regimes could be thrown in the trashbin of bad history. All there was in base V1 was Sokoto, Madagascar, Zanzibar and Zulu, and in reality there should be at least the following included for an 1836 start

Buganda
Asante
Segu
Massina
Futa Jallon
Benin
Borno
Wadai
Baguirmi
Darfur
Lozi
Gaza Nguni
Ndebele
Kazembe
Mutapa

All of which we included in VIP, plus several smaller ones and a few conglomerates (for ex Tuareg, Bobangi, Nyamweze) as well to better model the nature of colonialism in Africa in the mod.

I dunno if V2 will include any of these in the first release of the game, but one can be assured that this modder will be doing something along these lines post-release (as well as doing some further tweaks to the map of Africa, since the base Clio map used for V2 by Paradox was designed for V1 and the limited number of provinces V1 had. With that limit now removed, further refinement I feel is definitely needed).
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OHGamer, you continue to be a vital asset to the game, your efforts will be much appreciated if PI neglect the African nations again.
 
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I think everyone should just deal with the fact that given Vicky's idea of what a state is, representing most native states would be a travesty against common sense. Apart from a few major sultanates to spice things up, Africa should be empty for grabs. The game would have enough problems dealing with China alone for developers to also be considering the balance implications of letting any old middle of nowhere to industrialize Japanese-style.
 
Alexander Seil said:
I think everyone should just deal with the fact that given Vicky's idea of what a state is, representing most native states would be a travesty against common sense. Apart from a few major sultanates to spice things up, Africa should be empty for grabs. The game would have enough problems dealing with China alone for developers to also be considering the balance implications of letting any old middle of nowhere to industrialize Japanese-style.
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Have we had any word from the developers what "Vicky's idea of what a state is" actually is?

Africa wasn't an empty land for Europeans to settle, and neither was it a primitive stone age society not worth depicting in the game. The 19th century saw a lot of political upheaval in Africa even without the direct involvement of European colonialism, and the interaction between Europeans and Africans played a huge part in the formation of colonial empires.

At the very least, they should include the historical destruction of Benin, one of the largest and most prosperous cities in Africa at the time, at the hands of French colonial forces.
 
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