colour pictures

bestmajor · Nov 13, 2011

benden said:
Very clear now!

ok, intel note: while the Abwehr was an OKW office, the 'Abteilung Fremde Heere' (Reinhard Gehlen for Fremde Heere Ost) belongs to the OKH. there was also the Marinenachrichtendienst to observe foreign navies (Konteradmiral Ludwig Stummel ). maybe useful if you write your own ministers list. the mentioned persons are in the pack, Theodor Arps could also be added.

as for Arnaud de Vitrolles, shouldnt it be René d'Arnaud de Vitrolles, not Alfred?

benden · Nov 13, 2011

bestmajor said:
as for Arnaud de Vitrolles, shouldnt it be René d'Arnaud de Vitrolles, not Alfred?

Good point, the right d'Arnaud de Vitrolles is of course René who has his own bio on the ESG website. Please note that he has the same pic as Alfred!!

bestmajor · Nov 13, 2011

well, now what to do?

benden · Nov 13, 2011

bestmajor said:
well, now what to do?

It's up to you my friend since we have 50% that the chance the guy on the pic is either René or Alfred!!
Seriously now, Alfred was born in 1897 and was an air force lieutenant-colonel commanding the 12th Air Wing and killed in 1940 during aerial combat; just found another pic of him here.

Note: useful weblink for St Cyr officers killed in action.

bestmajor · Nov 13, 2011

benden said:
It's up to you my friend since we have 50% that the chance the guy on the pic is either René or Alfred!!
Seriously now, Alfred was born in 1897 and was an air force lieutenant-colonel commanding the 12th Air Wing and killed in 1940 during aerial combat; just found another pic of him here.

i still have no idea as there's no confirmed pic of one of the two. is it possible to simply ask the ESG guys? it could help them as well as this is an obvious mistake.

EDIT: if they're relatives it will be even more diffcult to tell with the pic of the younger. eg the Stumpff brothers in germany look very similar.

a few TTs for FRA and IDC (2nd is Arsenal de Brest - btw, as this was used by GER during occupation, the TT could be sent to GER after the VIC event?)

EDIT2:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&p=1646325#p1646325
maybe have a look. what Alif says isnt true?? http://images.google.com/hosted/lif...ife&um=1&hl=de&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=756&tbm=isch nevertheless a (new?) french general.

benden · Nov 14, 2011

bestmajor said:
i still have no idea as there's no confirmed pic of one of the two. is it possible to simply ask the ESG guys? it could help them as well as this is an obvious mistake.

EDIT: if they're relatives it will be even more diffcult to tell with the pic of the younger. eg the Stumpff brothers in germany look very similar.

I sent a mail today to the ESG website to ask them about the identity of the man on the photo.
EDIT: good news! thanks to my mail, the nice guy in charge of the ESG website has corrected both entries: now René and Alfred have both their bio and corrected pic included!

bestmajor said:
a few TTs for FRA and IDC (2nd is Arsenal de Brest - btw, as this was used by GER during occupation, the TT could be sent to GER after the VIC event?)

All look very good, thx!! and de Lattre of course could be used both for FRA and IDC.
Yes, Arsenal de Brest could be used by GER since Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were based there from 1940 to 1942 (until Operation Cerberus).

bestmajor said:
EDIT2:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&p=1646325#p1646325
maybe have a look. what Alif says isnt true?? http://images.google.com/hosted/lif...ife&um=1&hl=de&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=756&tbm=isch nevertheless a (new?) french general.

Yes a new general indeed, but without identity for now! strange, I didn't know that other French generals were present at the armistice negotiations in addition to Huntziger, Bergeret and admiral Le Luc. But if Polish and Commonwealth officers are present on the photo, my opinion is it can't be a photo that was taken on June 22, 1940!
EDIT: I posted the link on the ATF40 forum and I got many replies today, see here. All the contributors agree on the fact it's a pre-war photo and two suggest that the French general could be Gaston Renondeau who was military attaché to Berlin in the 1930s (from 1932 to 11/1938)...I must agree that he looks like a lot to the pics of Renondeau already published on this site (and that you used to do Renondeau's colour pic), don't you agree too?

bestmajor · Nov 14, 2011

benden said:
I sent a mail today to the ESG website to ask them about the identity of the man on the photo.
EDIT: good news! thanks to my mail, the nice guy in charge of the ESG website has corrected both entries: now René and Alfred have both their bio and corrected pic included!

wow you have been busy. great news, and they're very quick at ESG.

benden said:
EDIT: I posted the link on the ATF40 forum and I got many replies today, see here. All the contributors agree on the fact it's a pre-war photo and two suggest that the French general could be Gaston Renondeau who was military attaché to Berlin in the 1930s (from 1932 to 11/1938)...I must agree that he looks like a lot to the pics of Renondeau already published on this site (and that you used to do Renondeau's colour pic), don't you agree too?

seems to be the one. Ammentorps link at AHF had a time out, i'll try to get the pic tomorrow, but i would say one of the two, probably Renondeau from his appearance. hard to tell with Didelet, but the ears of Renendeau are more like the ones on the LIFE picture.

bestmajor · Nov 15, 2011

ok i got it now:

http://elektra.bsb-muenchen.de/servlet/Top/frames/hitsframe#bildarc
http://fachkataloge.bsb-muenchen.de/img/hoff-24430.jpg
http://elektra.bsb-muenchen.de/jsp/frames/documentframe.jsp;jsessionid=D405CF83CC95CD8D26D5F4999A2FDD26?database=BILDARC@BSBBild$1&position=0&timeout=10
(second link is hopefully working)

place is Berlin, date 20th april 39 (Führers birthday), british officer Mason-Macfarlane http://generals.dk/general/MacFarlane/Sir_Frank_Noel_Mason-/Great_Britain.html

so if its just about the date and the description is right, it should be Didelet indeed if the rank matches and the date is correct? just in case they mesed up the year, it could also be Renondeau (he actually looks very similar).
maybe if somebody could look at the orders the person in the parade picture wears?

EDIT:

benden said:
strange, I didn't know that other French generals were present at the armistice negotiations in addition to Huntziger, Bergeret and admiral Le Luc.

Georges Parisot was there as well (see top of page)
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1940/1940-06-25b.html

benden · Nov 15, 2011

bestmajor said:
(second link is hopefully working)

place is Berlin, date 20th april 39 (Führers birthday), british officer Mason-Macfarlane http://generals.dk/general/MacFarlane/Sir_Frank_Noel_Mason-/Great_Britain.html

Yes, only the second link is working (same pic), so your German sources say the pic was taken on April 1939, 20th? well, once I congratulated everybody on the ATF40 forum, I'm bad now to write there that they all could be wrong, lol...

bestmajor said:
so if its just about the date and the description is right, it should be Didelet indeed if the rank matches and the date is correct? just in case they mesed up the year, it could also be Renondeau (he actually looks very similar).
maybe if somebody could look at the orders the person in the parade picture wears?

Well, Didelet was given brigadier-general rank in March 1939, 27th and was military attaché to Germany from October 1938, 25th to September 1939, 6th...so he could be our general indeed.

He could be seen in the first seconds of this INA video (to the left) but the image is not very clear...

bestmajor said:
Georges Parisot was there as well (see top of page)
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1940/1940-06-25b.html

Okay, I didn't know he was In Compiègne too, since usually only Huntziger, Le Luc, Bergeret and Léon Noël are mentioned in most sources, e.g. http://www.musee-armistice-14-18.fr/#/la-delegation-1940/3160958

bestmajor · Nov 15, 2011

benden said:
Yes, only the second link is working (same pic), so your German sources say the pic was taken on April 1939, 20th? well, once I congratulated everybody on the ATF40 forum, I'm bad now to write there that they all could be wrong, lol...

strange those links are still working for me, but i had the same problem with Ammentorps link. ok here's a screen:

benden said:
Okay, I didn't know he was In Compiègne too, since usually only Huntziger, Le Luc, Bergeret and Léon Noël are mentioned in most sources, e.g. http://www.musee-armistice-14-18.fr/...n-1940/3160958

yes, but if you look at the AHF thread, theres a general next to Huntziger

maybe this link is working:
http://elektra.bsb-muenchen.de/servlet/Top/searchadvanced#bildarc
type in "Mason" and only select "Fotoarchiv Hoffmann" on the right, then you should find two pics of Macfarlane

EDIT: this could work as well:
http://rzblx10.uni-regensburg.de/dbinfo/detail.php?bib_id=alle&colors=&ocolors=&lett=fs&titel_id=5565

click on the link after "Recherche starten:", then search for "Mason" (in "Fotoarchiv Hoffmann")

benden · Nov 16, 2011

I posted a link to this thread (post #290) on the ATF40 forum and various members are still helping us for the identification/confirmation of identity (if Renondeau OK); same link as posted before (see post #286 above)!
Note: both Renondeau and Mason-MacFarlane served simultaneously as military attaché in Germany for a time!

bestmajor · Nov 16, 2011

thanks, i already noticed and thank you for the kind words over there regarding my person. as for the Renondeau/Didelet debate, i would go for Didelet right now.

the source of the pic is the bavarian state library (state of bavaria owns a lot of this nazi stuff, including copyrights of Mein Kampf, and the complete Hoffmann collection as well)

Heinrich Hoffmann: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hoffmann_(Fotograf)

note: if you scroll down on the german wiki entry, you'll see a link to the "Fotoarchiv Hoffmann" in the bavarian state library (under "Weblinks"). 66 000 pics from this photographer, including this one.
so in short i think the source is reliable, including the date.

EDIT:
and on those three pics i have from here, Renondeau wears glasses

a little advert, the one who can ID all of them gets 50 pics for free lol...

EDIT2:
btw, i made some research about MacFarlane today, quite interesting - he even planned to kill Hitler
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2972

erica · Nov 17, 2011

Hi~ I have some questions about making colour pictures.

↓ For example, I got this photo that the face and mustache of this person can hardly recognize, so how can I make colour on it?

↓ Another example, the collar and the background is almost in same colour, how can I make colour on it?

bestmajor · Nov 17, 2011

erica said:
↓ For example, I got this photo that the face and mustache of this person can hardly recognize, so how can I make colour on it?

hi erica, just paint the parts where hair should be, i just tried it and it should work.

erica said:
↓ Another example, the collar and the background is almost in same colour, how can I make colour on it?

well if there is nothing paint nothing ("nothing" in this case is: sky, R: 255, G: 255, B: 255; that means: leave it as it is). before adding some fantasy clounds in green or yellow for the background, i think thats the best option; so after removing the colours which are still in the pic, background can be just black - and if you come close to the face nobody will spot it.
i send you the .rcl template: http://www.gamefront.com/files/20997772/Böhm-Ermolli.rar

btw, dont you think that Böhm-Ermolli is a bit very old? http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRMACHT/HEER/Generalfeldmarschall/BOEHM_EDUARD.html

erica · Nov 18, 2011

bestmajor said:
hi erica, just paint the parts where hair should be, i just tried it and it should work.

well if there is nothing paint nothing ("nothing" in this case is: sky, R: 255, G: 255, B: 255; that means: leave it as it is). before adding some fantasy clounds in green or yellow for the background, i think thats the best option; so after removing the colours which are still in the pic, background can be just black - and if you come close to the face nobody will spot it.
i send you the .rcl template: http://www.gamefront.com/files/20997772/Böhm-Ermolli.rar

btw, dont you think that Böhm-Ermolli is a bit very old? http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRMACHT/HEER/Generalfeldmarschall/BOEHM_EDUARD.html

Thank you for your help. Böhm-Ermolli is one of the ministers in Kaiserreich mod. I'm making colour pictures for that mod.

benden · Nov 18, 2011

bestmajor said:
thanks, i already noticed and thank you for the kind words over there regarding my person. as for the Renondeau/Didelet debate, i would go for Didelet right now.

the source of the pic is the bavarian state library (state of bavaria owns a lot of this nazi stuff, including copyrights of Mein Kampf, and the complete Hoffmann collection as well)

Heinrich Hoffmann: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hoffmann_(Fotograf)

note: if you scroll down on the german wiki entry, you'll see a link to the "Fotoarchiv Hoffmann" in the bavarian state library (under "Weblinks"). 66 000 pics from this photographer, including this one.
so in short i think the source is reliable, including the date.

Did you see the last posts from yesterday on the ATF40 forum? One of the site moderators owns some real photos where Mason-MacFarlane and the other military attachés are shown, and when he compared them with those from Life magazine showing Hitler's stand and the nazi flags they were clearly different, so he's convinced that the photo with Renondeau/Didelet was not taken during the 50th Anniversary's parade...

bestmajor said:
EDIT:
and on those three pics i have from here, Renondeau wears glasses

Well I'm not so sure he could be wearing glasses since I don't see any frame of glasses (but they could have no frame at all); pic's quality is not optimal and perhaps he was only very tired after his capture...

bestmajor said:
a little advert, the one who can ID all of them gets 50 pics for free lol...

Since I know only half a dozen of them (including Renondeau-Didelet) no free pics for me, aargh!

bestmajor said:
EDIT2:
btw, i made some research about MacFarlane today, quite interesting - he even planned to kill Hitler
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2972

An interesting character indeed!

bestmajor · Nov 18, 2011

benden said:
Since I know only half a dozen of them (including Renondeau-Didelet) no free pics for me, aargh!

the difficulty level is intended, but you have appr one month

benden said:
Well I'm not so sure he could be wearing glasses since I don't see any frame of glasses (but they could have no frame at all); pic's quality is not optimal and perhaps he was only very tired after his capture...

if you come very close (eg during a recolourisation) you'll notice there is something which could be glasses

maybe download and zoom?

benden said:
Did you see the last posts from yesterday on the ATF40 forum? One of the site moderators owns some real photos where Mason-MacFarlane and the other military attachés are shown, and when he compared them with those from Life magazine showing Hitler's stand and the nazi flags they were clearly different, so he's convinced that the photo with Renondeau/Didelet was not taken during the 50th Anniversary's parade...

ok, i'm not sure if i understood this one right (even if i followed - well tried to) the thread over there.
on wednesday you posted a link saying that those pics (life in colour) were taken at hitlers birthday (please correct me if i misunderstood).

based on this assumption, the other pics were discussed, but this could be the reichs veterans day as well (colour pics from LIFE), and Life's descritions proved to be wrong at least in one case already?
what puzzles me a bit is there is no discussion about the reliability of sources (ie LIFE, vs a serious Library, which owns the original - even the whole collection).
if i understood your posts at ATF40 right, you only spoke about a german source. thats true, but its not like a nice find from a flee market or a wiki entry. these are the ones who own the complete collection of this photographer.

+ i doubt this is the same situation, same people as well
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=264226&mode=view
http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=122&u=12785285

(look at the fence and its decoration with flowers(?), compare the Képi, there is a lithuanian officer in the background of the LIFE pic while there seem to be a german one on the scan - the only thing which is really similar is the british officer)

i really think the best is to carry all information over to AHF as other people might jump in.

btw i found another pic http://www.ica-d.de/srv/chr/pic/p0496b.jpg
(source also states 20th april 39, although its not the best source, picture may help to ID, though)

+ 2 other ones from the same occasion
http://fachkataloge.bsb-muenchen.de/img/hoff-24672.jpg
http://fachkataloge.bsb-muenchen.de/img/hoff-24673.jpg

the fence looks similar now.

EDIT:

ok case closed, i have him (definately now):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX8i60xbFac&NR=1

minute 6:30 and minute 6:57 (including the jackets on the fence)

benden · Nov 26, 2011

Sorry to come back late here but I had Internet connections problems for several days...

bestmajor said:
if you come very close (eg during a recolourisation) you'll notice there is something which could be glasses

You're right (again)!

bestmajor said:
ok case closed, i have him (definately now):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX8i60xbFac&NR=1

minute 6:30 and minute 6:57 (including the jackets on the fence)

I posted your conclusions on the ATF40 forum and since nobody objected to them, I guess it's case closed there too! good work!

Found no interesting links otherwise, but I discovered that I still have a 7€ credit in my account on the INA webshop! each video downloaded costs about 0.99€! so if you found one where interesting captures can be done, just ask me!
Use the 'Rechercher sur INA Boutique' box on this link

bestmajor · Nov 26, 2011

benden said:
Sorry to come back late here but I had Internet connections problems for several days...

welcome back, and good that the Didelet case is solved (or confirmed, as Ammentorp was right from the very beginning).

i have a question about Gauché, Maurice-Henri: found him here

and thats what i made so far

the pic is not fully done yet, but the uniform is just made of imagination (a bit from Jacomy); is there an example for this type of uniform somewhere? no hurry i keep all templates and changing things doesnt take long, just if you spot something.

correction:
this person here is definately NOT Boehm-Bezing (i actually have this image since ages and never believed that it is him, just added it with the last version, only to spot this one.

there should be an alternative pic for Boehm-Bezing in the file, the original colour pic shows maybe C.H. von Stülpnagel (definately not Rothkirch, IMHO). if the alternative pic is missing, please post.

and finally another preview (didnt do much, though)

EDIT: Stepan Korol (SU), Dager (USA), Foertsch, Hermann (GER), Versock (GER), Roosevelt junior (USA), Barger (AUS - not GER!), Horrocks (UK), Szécsy (HUN), Kutrzeba (POL), Kleinheisterkamp (GER), Maurice Rose (USA), Kokorev (SOV) - just in case

as for the INA thing: you probably know this better, what i really would like to know is the ID of those 2 people:

was marked as "généraux Germain et Baudoin" but we have been unable to find this one again, and there were at least two Baudo(u)ins?
http://generals.dk/general/Baudouin/Jean-Roch-Charles-Numa/France.html
http://generals.dk/general/Baudouin/Jules-Georges-Jacques/France.html

or is the Baudoin just another one who is not at generals.dk?

EDIT2: oh yeah, before i forget it again, any idea how these state official uniforms (vichy) should look like? (eg black or blue, items on visor hat gold or silver?)
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17970682

benden · Nov 27, 2011

bestmajor said:
EDIT2: oh yeah, before i forget it again, any idea how these state official uniforms (vichy) should look like? (eg black or blue, items on visor hat gold or silver?)
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17970682

Just look at this link.

bestmajor said:
there should be an alternative pic for Boehm-Bezing in the file, the original colour pic shows maybe C.H. von Stülpnagel (definately not Rothkirch, IMHO). if the alternative pic is missing, please post.

OK, Correction done with Boehm-Bezing_Diether_von_colour_ger pic.

colour pictures

Field Marshal

Captain

Field Marshal

Captain

Field Marshal

Captain

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Captain

Field Marshal

Captain

Field Marshal

Captain

Field Marshal

Captain

Captain

Field Marshal

Captain

Field Marshal

Captain