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Thread: Spies Impacting Research - Test Results

  1. #1
    Field Marshal jju_57's Avatar
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    Spies Impacting Research - Test Results

    I decided to run a test to see if spies interrupting research have any effect on research time. We know that positive modifiers end up having zero net effect and there is debate on if spies with negative modifies increase research speed, have zero effect or decrease speed.

    My test was as Germany 1936 scenario. I kept all default ministers and laws. All production was deleted and zero points put into upgrades. Only IC's spent was 50 for CG's, 50 on supplies and rest in reinforcements. Both tests researched 12 techs and leadership was 13 in research, 4.01 in espoinage, .42 in diplomacy and 10.38 in leaders. All events, trades and diplomatic aliiances were ignored. The only difference was in espionage.

    For the base test I conducted counter intelligence and had all spies just going to domestic use. All other spies from Germany were deleted from the save game file. At times there were one or 2 foreign spies but were usually caught within a couple of days. The other test had zero german spies in the homeland and I selected ruling party support. I also added 30 spies (10 each from Japan, Italy and Austria) to start as disrupting German research. Since no spies were ever caught the actual number of spies ranged from 30 on 1/1/36 to 47 on 4/1/36 to 48 on 9/1/36 to 41 on 11/4/36 with 87 spies on 1/1/37. The results are below.


    Tech - Light Tank (1918)------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36-----------------Est. Comp. 5/10/36------Est. Comp. 6/20/36
    Check 4/1/36-----------------Est. Comp. 5/18/36 -----Est. Comp. 7/7/36
    Actual Finish Date------------5/18/36-----------------5/18/36
    No Difference

    Tech - Small Arms----------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 12/2/36-----Est. Comp. 3/16/37
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 12/21/36----Est. Comp. 1/26/37
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 1/1/37------Already finished
    Actual Finish Date-----------1/1/37-----------------7/31/36
    For some reason this completed 5 months earlier with the spies.

    Tech - BB Engine-----------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 7/7/36------Est. Comp. 9/3/36
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 7/18/36-----Est. Comp. 9/2/36
    Actual Finish Date-----------7/17/36---------------7/18/36
    One day earlier without spies. Basically no difference.

    Tech - Industrial Product----No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 12/30/36----Est. Comp. 4/22/37
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 1/23/37-----Est. Comp. 3/12/37
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 2/6/37------Already finished
    Actual Finish Date-----------1/1/37-----------------8/26/36
    Completed much earlier with spies.

    Tech - Agriculture-----------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 9/28/36------Est. Comp. 12/21/36
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 10/13/36-----Est. Comp. 10/19/36
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 10/28/36-----Already finished
    Actual Finish Date-----------11/4/36-----------------6/11/36
    Completed much earlier with spies.

    Tech - Education-----------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 1/27/38-----Est. Comp. 9/19/38
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 3/11/38-----Est. Comp. 10/20/38
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 3/3/38------Est. Comp. 4/1/38
    Check 1/1/37---------------Est. Comp. 6/21/37-----Est. Comp. 1/2/37
    Actual Finish Date-----------NA---------------------NA
    Seems spies will help by about 5 or 6 months.

    Tech - Oil Refining----------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 2/23/37-----Est. Comp. 7/3/37
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 3/21/37-----Est. Comp. 6/2/37
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 4/1/37------Est. Comp. 11/23/36
    Actual Finish Date-----------1/1/37-----------------9/28/36
    Completed much earlier with spies. What is interesting is the actual completion date dropped by almost 2 months from expected when checked on 9/1/36.

    Tech - Schwerpunkt--------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 10/19/36----Est. Comp. 1/17/37
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 11/5/36-----Est. Comp. 2/6/37
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 11/2/36-----Est. Comp. 11/1/36
    Actual Finish Date-----------11/4/36---------------11/4/36
    No difference but actual date increased from expected by 3 days for spies.

    Tech - Infantry Warefare----No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 2/12/38------Est. Comp. 10/10/38
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 3/28/38------Est. Comp. 11/13/38
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 3/18/38------Est. Comp. 4/23/38
    Check 1/1/37---------------Est. Comp. 6/30/37------Est. Comp. 1/17/37
    Actual Finish Date-----------NA---------------------NA
    Spies looks like it will finish faster.

    Tech - Ftr Pilot Training-----No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 2/9/38------Est. Comp. 10/7/38
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 3/25/38-----Est. Comp. 11/9/38
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 3/15/38-----Est. Comp. 4/19/38
    Check 1/1/37---------------Est. Comp. 6/28/37-----Est. Comp. 1/14/37
    Actual Finish Date-----------NA---------------------NA
    Spies looks like it will finish faster.

    Tech - Battlefleet Conc.-----No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 5/29/37------Est. Comp. 11/4/37
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 6/27/37------Est. Comp. 11/26/37
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 6/20/37------Est. Comp. 7/13/37
    Actual Finish Date-----------1/1/37-----------------1/1/37
    No difference.

    Tech - Logistical Strike------No/Limited Spies--------30 or more spies
    Check 1/2/36---------------Est. Comp. 9/14/36-----Est. Comp. 12/3/36
    Check 4/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 9/29/36-----Est. Comp. 12/14/36
    Check 9/1/36---------------Est. Comp. 9/25/36-----Est. Comp. 10/7/36
    Actual Finish Date-----------9/26/36----------------9/26/36
    No difference.

    Conclusions:
    The first conclusion is that PI needs to fix this as it is clearly broken. Completeion dates and expected completion dates have almost no relation to each other.

    It also seems that for patch 1.3 having spies disrupting research may help but does not hurt. (Except one tech that was one day later). So sending spies to disrupt research is not a good thing to do.

    The final thing that I noticed is very large completion dates disparity for Small Arms, Industrial Production, Agriculture and Oil Refining. I only ran this test once and I guess I should do it at least once more and compare those results. Is it possible for something else to impact research?
    Last edited by jju_57; 24-01-2010 at 22:08.

  2. #2
    General Forster's Avatar
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    With these kind of results, you would want to put out the red carpet and beg for spies to come in and "hinder" your work.

  3. #3
    Second Lieutenant Buh the Ghost's Avatar
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    thank you.
    that fits in my experiences of my last game. some techs were much earlier finished, some not.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    this is a great piece of analysis - may be an idea to stick it in the bug reports just to make sure its picked up
    Remember, whatever the question, the answer on 18 September is Yes ...

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Baltasar's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing. Hopefully this will be adressedin 1.4

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