Questions to the Developers

[Vladimir Pavlov]

I believe, it's a question for Ese Khan... have you guys found any good and accurate way to represent Chinese religious mix? Even religious minorities (though brilliant) were not quite up the challenge.

[Ese Khan]

I believe, it's a question for Ese Khan... have you guys found any good and accurate way to represent Chinese religious mix? Even religious minorities (though brilliant) were not quite up the challenge.

This should be addressed to dharper first, then me. I always meddle in his business when it comes to East Asia.
dharper is again busy teaching his students this semester, and there hasn't been much discussion on the religious aspect of the game yet.

IMO it's foolish to attempt to "depict" the Chinese populace based on EU3's religious framework. Starting with the categorization of religions that doesn't really work well with Confucianism, the variety of popular faiths in East Asia just doesn't blend well with the framework that's applied to the rest of the world.
Well, I just don't have much to say at this point. Just one question though: what makes you expect "challenge" by "Chinese religious mix"?

[Vladimir Pavlov]

Well, I just don't have much to say at this point. Just one question though: what makes you expect "challenge" by "Chinese religious mix"?

Starting with the fact, that "categorization of religions that doesn't really work well with Confucianism" and "variety of popular faiths in East Asia just doesn't blend well with the framework that's applied to the rest of the world", and going on with the fact, that the whole concept of state religion, opposed by heretics, heathens and their proselytes, doesn't really fit Chinese situation.

[Ese Khan]

Starting with the fact, that "categorization of religions that doesn't really work well with Confucianism" and "variety of popular faiths in East Asia just doesn't blend well with the framework that's applied to the rest of the world", and going on with the fact, that the whole concept of state religion, opposed by heretics, heathens and their proselytes, doesn't really fit Chinese situation.

I'd say they provide more challenge to developers than players! I'll ask what dharper's plan is when he comes back, though.

*edit*
Ah, you must be VPavlov from Terranova. Nice to see you here!

[Vladimir Pavlov]

I'd say they provide more challenge to developers than players!

Am... actually, that was what I meant - that it's a concept, which is hard to model in a game, even with the religious minorities system.

Sorry for misunderstanding

[Ese Khan]

Am... actually, that was what I meant - that it's a concept, which is hard to model in a game, even with the religious minorities system.

Sorry for misunderstanding

Oh, ok, I actually had a feeling that that was what you were trying to say when I read you first reply.
But to say something was "not up the challenge" made it sound like you were not satisfied with the difficulty religious minorities offered in MMP2. You know, considering Magna Mundi's notorious gameplay difficulty....

[Vladimir Pavlov]

At least, it's good to know that Professor would be on the team.

[kuros ho megas]

For Ubik, I guess.

Is the economic model going to be relatively similar to EU3, or completely overhauled? EDIT: For example, is the game going to stick with one trade good per province that remains static like in EU3 or are provinces going to produce multiple kinds of goods, or having changing tradegoods?

[Järnblomma]

If I may be so bold as to post another question? About religion this time:

How will the refermation work.

And how will the east-asian missionaries work? Will you be able to convert? I would like to see christian daimyos and south-east asian nations.

Thanks!

[Sal]

Will the AI suffer naval attrition?

[kuros ho megas]

Will the AI suffer naval attrition?

+1

In fact, will the AI understand naval combat better (i.e. not leave its navy in port doing nothing during most wars).

[s3nn3n]

not sure if this is the right thread but i have a suggestion.

i've recently started modding and my major annoyance is the difficulty it is to change features due to the way the provinces are implemented. one way to make modding easier without changing the general game engine (i think) would be to use a different number sequence.

so... what do you think about using a number sequence for provinces starting at a number above 2000 so that when searching files for the province id you do not have to deal with date or other values?

maybe provinces could even be reserved a range that does not overlap events so any search for a province number would only find values that reference that province. what do you think?

[Zolotaya]

not sure if this is the right thread but i have a suggestion.

i've recently started modding and my major annoyance is the difficulty it is to change features due to the way the provinces are implemented. one way to make modding easier without changing the general game engine (i think) would be to use a different number sequence.

so... what do you think about using a number sequence for provinces starting at a number above 2000 so that when searching files for the province id you do not have to deal with date or other values?

maybe provinces could even be reserved a range that does not overlap events so any search for a province number would only find values that reference that province. what do you think?

I understand what you are saying (looking for individual provinces can make your eyes bleed out) the problem is that no matter what numbering sequence you use it will have boundaries that will be reached in one way or another.

[Belegurt]

I understand what you are saying (looking for individual provinces can make your eyes bleed out) the problem is that no matter what numbering sequence you use it will have boundaries that will be reached in one way or another.

then make it alphanumerical, it could do even only with a a0000001 a0000002 or maybe a0000001a a0000002a

this way, u can still use it as a number (u can transform it in a numerical variable or u can use it as a composite one with a, numerical part and a) if u need to

[s3nn3n]

then make it alphanumerical, it could do even only with a a0000001 a0000002 or maybe a0000001a a0000002a

this way, u can still use it as a number (u can transform it in a numerical variable or u can use it as a composite one with a, numerical part and a) if u need to

i don't know if the game engine uses a number or string for the province but this sounds like a good idea if the later.

if a number must be used it would still be a huge improvement to use a longer number that is more unique to make modding much easier. that whole eye bleed thing....

i know this issue effects many modders. seriously, any ideas on ways we could push for this change?

i would be willing to read through any amount of scripts to help with this.

[Don_Quigleone]

You could change the province numbers to being expressed in Hexadecimal or something, or maybe keep the same numbers, but put a p in front, so provinces could be p123 or p367, dates could be d1587, event ids could be e345123, etc.

As for East Asia, how will things be changed, for instance will religion interact with the idea of "the mandate of heaven", as I'm sure you're aware Chinese state and religion were both quite interwoven, and the religion and myths conditioned the people to believe one state was best. This doesn't really fit with "religion" so much as "cores", so it's all rather difficult to figure out.

[Buladelu]

I wonder what developers think about other grand strategies so we now what to expect. EU3 is too obvious, so what other games you prefer more and would like to make MM similar to? Or maybe some other titles like CivIV, beautiful in it's simplicity. Oh well, MM is beautiful in it's complexity so eh.

Shorter: what do you like more - CK, Rome, Vicky or HoI?

[Belegurt]

You could change the province numbers to being expressed in Hexadecimal or something, or maybe keep the same numbers, but put a p in front, so provinces could be p123 or p367, dates could be d1587, event ids could be e345123, etc.

As for East Asia, how will things be changed, for instance will religion interact with the idea of "the mandate of heaven", as I'm sure you're aware Chinese state and religion were both quite interwoven, and the religion and myths conditioned the people to believe one state was best. This doesn't really fit with "religion" so much as "cores", so it's all rather difficult to figure out.

i proposed the letter+number or the letter+number+letter choice 'cause the hexadecimal thing doesn't solve the problem... yes... u got some "strange" numbers likè "1ee2" but still u got "normal" numbers (even if they only look like common decimal numbers and they have different values) like 2543... and there u still have the problem with the search tool

hexadecimal can't be the way

[ubik]

I wonder what developers think about other grand strategies so we now what to expect. EU3 is too obvious, so what other games you prefer more and would like to make MM similar to? Or maybe some other titles like CivIV, beautiful in it's simplicity. Oh well, MM is beautiful in it's complexity so eh.

Shorter: what do you like more - CK, Rome, Vicky or HoI?

CK and HOI2, but their dynamic is entirely different so, other than a few side concepts nothing could actually be borrowed.

[Don_Quigleone]

CK and HOI2, but their dynamic is entirely different so, other than a few side concepts nothing could actually be borrowed.

I think elements of provincial development and technology in CK could be used. CK more easily melds with EU then most other Paradox titles.