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Thread: Realpolitik - An interactive AAR concept

  1. #1721
    Banned Delex's Avatar

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    Per how the democracy works here no one can vote against any minister at all. Not to mention that the minority coalitions have no say at all.

    Thats why the Muller-plan, which has little popular support could get passed.

  2. #1722
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    Delex his opposition group has reached ample support now, so we asked the government to bend, respond or come up with a compromise. We await their decision, if they bend the 10+1 system will be implemented

    we know there is more support for the 20+1 system, but we're really going to veto against that for organisational purposes, if we have to wait for twenty votes every issue it will pull the speed of this AAR down to sluggish, which nobody wants

    Also note that the 10+1 system will not become valid for the next update, as we're writing this right now (we don't have enough time tomorrow) and it is based on what the government has already decided. This update will be posted tomorrow, for today we have something else. Posting in a sec


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  3. #1723
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDutchie View Post
    However the Realpolitik minister of the Interior is preparing a proposal bringing more influence to the Reichstag.
    Indeed, I am. I have most of it written out, creating a Reichstag with considerable more power and influence than it currently has.

    (I have to work it out with TRP as well, since creating a Reichstag that holds some power (votes, etc), adds an extra layer of complexity to the game. See Stormbringer's post on that.)

  4. #1724
    Banned Delex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_c View Post
    Indeed, I am. I have most of it written out, creating a Reichstag with considerable more power and influence than it currently has.

    (I have to work it out with TRP as well, since creating a Reichstag that holds some power (votes, etc), adds an extra layer of complexity to the game. See Stormbringer's post on that.)
    As I see it the Reichstag (Except if you mean ministerial cabinet in the first place) already has dictator like powers, I don't see how you could make it even more powerful.
    Last edited by Delex; 04-01-2010 at 22:01.

  5. #1725
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delex View Post
    Per how the democracy works here no one can vote against any minister at all. Not to mention that the minority coalitions have no say at all.

    Thats why the Muller-plan, which has little popular support could get passed.
    The two largest parties in the game and the NUP fully support the plan. The DNVP supports it grudgingly. This is a very royal majority...

    With the coalition having a safe majority and the coalition voting for their plans in the Reichtag (the ministers already compromise with eachother) I am afraid that this plan simply delays decisions without blocking or altering them in any way. Thats why I am very sceptical of your plan...
    Current work: The Sons of Castille - a Castille CK 2 AAR, The German Empire during the 2nd Weltkrieg - A Kaiserreich DH AAR

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  6. #1726
    Banned Delex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDutchie View Post
    The two largest parties in the game and the NUP fully support the plan. The DNVP supports it grudgingly. This is a very royal majority...
    I said popular support (AKA people) and not coalition support.

  7. #1727
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    Same difference...
    Current work: The Sons of Castille - a Castille CK 2 AAR, The German Empire during the 2nd Weltkrieg - A Kaiserreich DH AAR

    Some old (and sadly abandoned) works:
    The plot against Britain - a Kaiserreich mystery,Reconquista! - the exploits of the House Barcelona ,A Short History of the German Empire
    Assorted trophies: - Fan of the week (4-4-2010) - WritAAR of the week (18-10-2009) - Character writer of the week, (25-10-2009), - Character writer of the week (23-5-2010) - Joined first place AARland choice Favorite Comedy AAR 2009 (Q4) - Character writer of the week (11-4-2010) - Lord Strange Cookie of British Awesomenesss

  8. #1728
    Major Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, but the people elected the government, no? Now it is up to the government to rule, and the people can give their verdict on whether they agree or disagree in two years time. I still do not see why we should have direct votes on every issue that comes before us, other than, perhaps, the fact that you disagree with the government and would like to cause as much trouble as possible.

  9. #1729
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    Die Realpolitik Zeit Issue #1: Interview with the Reichskansler
    July 8th 1936
    By our political reporter Von Geyte


    Our interview with Chancellor Great_Chairman takes place in the prestigious bakery and cofee house ‘Kaiser’s Muffin’s’, in the heart of Berlin. The weather is warm and humid, and the atmosphere is tense. Many German politicians roam these streets after Reichstag meetings, hunting for a new shot of caffeďne to temporarily alleviate their stress. Indeed, with Syndicalist enemies at our borders and the opposition rising up within, these are busy days for the government. From across his counter, a moody bartender kills time by staring at me as I write down some introductory text. This man, who failed in his ambition to be crowned Kaiser and is now forced to work in a bakery, discomforts me with his evil, beedy eyes.

    At last, the Chancellor arrives. He is accompanied by two bodyguards wary for possible foreign agents of the Syndicalists intent on our Chancellor’s life. Being the ruler of Germany is not only a stressfull job, but a dangerous one at that.

    After the introductions, we sit down, order coffee with two Kaiser muffins and have a talk about the political situation in the world at the moment.



    I couldn’t help but notice, Chancellor, that you are accompanied by two officers of the Abwehr. Do you fear an attempt on your life?


    Great_Chairman: My wife does. I keep telling her that if I survived leading my storm troopers during the Weltkrieg, I can survive anything, but my wife won't even let me out the house without the boys.


    The Syndicalist World Revolution shocked the Kaiserreich to it’s core, as we now find ourselves encircled by hostile powers. And this is while we are trapped in the iron jaws of an economic crisis. The intervention of our Minister of Economy seems to be paying off, but we are still far away from the industrial power we held in 1935. What is your opinion on Stormbringer’s economic recovery plan?


    Great_Chairman: He was recommended by my Vice-Chancellor, FlyingDutchie, and I have every confidence he will perform his duty to the Fatherland. Regarding the economic crisis, well, one cannot argue with results. My opinion does not matter as much as the opinions of the average German, and so far, I am hearing general approval of the plan.


    And how do you feel about the resurgent communists in Russia? Russia has been our mortal enemy for decades, and I do not think it will change now Joe Steele is in command.


    Great_Chairman: Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I pray every night it will not come to a second Weltkrieg - one was enough. To allow the Syndicalists to spread their tyranny into Eastern Europe, as they demand, however, is absolutely unacceptable. We have seen what it did to France. I didn't think it was possible to beat the body count of the first Reign of Terror. Germany, as one of the few democratic powers remaining, must stand as the world's bastion against this toxic ideology.


    Your government has been facing heat from the opposition lately. What is your opinion on the democratic movement started by Delex, or Avatar Federal who has gained massive support amongst the nationalists, claiming the current government to be ‘weak’, ‘incompetent’, or even ‘traitors to the Kaiserreich’?


    Great_Chairman: Well, they are certainly welcome to their own opinions. History will vindicate us.


    Avatar Federal and his Reichspartei are strongly opposed to the Muller Plan. In light of the opposition, does the government still wish to continue the decolonization of Mittelafrika?


    Great_Chairman: Of course. Mittleafrika, as it stands, is a hole in the Fatherland's pocket, and we do not have all that many coins to lose.


    And what are your plans for Namibia and South-Africa? Many nationalists are against ceding an inch of German land to another country, and pledge for the rights of the many German settlers in that area. The government has announced it will approach the Italian Union, and thus, the Catholics of which Portugal is a devote member. Will the government attempt to negotiate with Portugal over their African colonies? Some defenders of the Muller plan feel the Portuguese colonies belong to Mittelafrika...


    Great_Chairman: By decree of our Foreign Minister, we will seek approachment with the Catholic States. They may be zealots, but in this scary world, every friend we can get is a friend we could need. Negotiations with Portugal? I don't close out options. We will take chances as they are presented to us. Aside from that, the government has agreed on ceding Namibia to South-Africa. The government there has already promised us a federal solution with much autonomy for the German settlers in that area, and the general response has been positive. After the treason of Goering, we have a lot of damaged relations to repair with the African states if we want any kind of credibility for the Muller Plan in the future.


    What is your opinion on Goering, Chancellor? Do you believe he must be executed like any other villain, or that he deserves a lighter punishment, considering his services to the Kaiserreich in the Weltkrieg?


    Great_Chairman: I am divided on the matter. Goering is a Weltkrieg veteran and a hero to the German people. But he is also a tyrant, a kleptocrat and a traitor to everything this country stands for. The normal punishment for crimes of this severity is execution, but I will await how the trial turns out.


    Final question, Chancellor. Our sources inform us that there have been secret money transfers from within the government to hidden accounts in some Syndicalist countries. Many speculators believe the Abwehr is planning on taking covert action against the leftist regimes in Athens, Amsterdam and Jakarta. Care to shed any light on this?


    Great_Chairman: I'm afraid that would be secret information which I cannot disclose at the time.


    We thank you for your time.



    --------
    Tomorrow's issue: Minister Stormbringer's New Deal - Miracle, or fraud?
    Die Realpolitik Zeit, only 3 Reichsmark!

  10. #1730
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    Note that there will be no 'tomorrow's issue', that's just a fluff thing . Die Realpolitik Zeit will reappear every now and then to act as a source of information on specific subjects. You are free to suggest a Realpolitik Zeit issue on a subject, this can be anything from foreign info to economic info to an interview with someone (maybe a of the opposition would be willing to do an interview? ). No PM's, just post the request here and see if it gets support.

    On the 10+1 system

    It appears the government opposes the opposition on the matter. We suggest two ways out: Either the government takes control and ignores the opposition movements, or we simply hold a vote where people can vote for or against the proposition, most votes wins.

    Note that ignoring the movement will be seen as an authoritarian action and will move Germany back to Paternal Autocrat with penalties ingame. Aside from that, it opens the possibility of a revolution against your government. Anyone with ambitions of overthrowing the government will need at least massive support and some kind of In-Character gameplan. But we'll see how this goes and plan something out accordingly

    Also note that there is still the case of Goerings trial. Maybe a vote on his punishment is in order aswell?


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  11. #1731
    Major Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Description of the current economic situation in Eastern Europe.

    The economies of United Baltic Duchy, Lithuania, Poland, White Ruthenia, and Ukraine (Eastern Europe) came into the German sphere of influence following the end of the Weltkrieg. At the time these economies were severely underdeveloped and relied almost exclusively on recourse extracting operations to generate output. Over time small scale industrial production became common, although it remains a very small percentage of output. A number of industry-promoting programs were launched with German help, but many have stalled or been abandoned after they came to be seen as unnecessary because of the relative prosperity in Europe between 1925 and 1935.

    Since the beginning of the year industrial output in Eastern Europe has stalled and unemployment has begun a very steep climb. Industrial and resource extracting capacity is operating bellow capacity. The revenues of the governments in Eastern Europe have declined severely and numerous social programs have lost funding. These developments have resulted in social unrest in some of the areas.


    The Ministry of Economics (the Ministry) offers the following analysis of the situation.

    Eastern European economies can be characterized by the state of transition from resource extraction to industrial production. In all countries in the area resource extraction constitutes the primary sector of economic activity and provides, to varying degrees, the overwhelming bulk of employment. Industrial production remains underdeveloped and inefficient, largely due to political interference, incoherent economic policies, and an unfavorable investment climate. Trade and finance are heavily constrained, the middle class remains anemic, and economic growth has lagged behind population growth for most of the last two decades.

    The economies of Eastern Europe are currently suffering from a severe and persistent decline in aggregate demand. Since the beginning of the year industrial production in Germany has declined by an estimated 14.5% and German demand for Eastern European materials has diminished. With consumer demand weak and inventories currently elevated German industrial production will continue to remain bellow capacity in the coming months and demand for Eastern European materials will remain weak.

    Due to unusually low demand the resource extracting industries that characterize Eastern European economies have been operating at well bellow capacity. Revenues, output, and employment have declined, although productivity has increased marginally. In the most severe cases resource extracting operations have closed completely. The resulting decline in income, both institutional and personal, has placed severe downward pressure on household and firm wealth, and as a result on aggregate demand for consumer goods. Firms and industries outside the resource extracting sector are becoming affected by the downturn in demand.

    In addition to downward pressure on output the decline in demand has resulted in downward pressure on the price of currency in all Eastern European economies. In countries that have allowed their currency to depreciate this depreciation has made imports, especially of consumer goods, prohibitively expensive, further undermining aggregate demand. In countries that have tried to defend a fixed exchange rate between the local currency and the Mark this has resulted in the depletion of government reserves and the further deterioration of trade due to the expectation of future currency depreciation.

    The fall in aggregate demand, household wealth, and currency value have resulted in rapid deterioration of the fiscal situation for governments of Eastern Europe. A number of social programs have been discontinued at a time when household wealth and economic security are already declining, causing further downward pressure on demand and creating economic uncertainty. Social unrest that has followed in some areas, most notably Ukraine, and uncertainly about the economic and political future further depress spending by both individuals and firms, resulting in declining prices, high unemployment, and periodic breakdown of commercial activity.


    The Ministry is taking the following steps in coordination with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to counter the deteriorating economic condition.

    The current foreign exchange market for Eastern European currencies does not reflect the underlying demand for, and value of, these currencies. The current prices are artificially lowered by speculative selling of these currencies by individuals expecting a severe devaluation in the coming months. This distortion in the foreign exchange market has had severe and adverse effects on trade between Germany and Eastern Europe and the fiscal condition of Eastern European governments. In order to normalize conditions in the foreign exchange markets the Reichsbank has arranged for currency swaps with the central bank and other central financial authorities of Eastern Europe and will provide the amount of currency necessary to absorb speculative fluctuations and return the foreign exchange markets to normal conditions.

    The decline in aggregate demand in Eastern Europe will persist in the coming months and must be countered using expansionary fiscal policy. Local governments in Eastern Europe have seen their fiscal positions decline as a result of the crisis (see above) and are unable to borrow freely in the manner the Germany government can. As a result, the Ministry has arranged for revolving credit lines to be made available to Eastern European governments at rates between 100 and 250 basis points. The flexibility in fiscal policy that these credit lines will allow will counter some of the effect of declining aggregate demand.

    Further, the Ministry will extend the stay on all duties and tariffs levied against Eastern European imports of goods into Germany. Declining prices of imported materials will, in the short run, stimulate more demand and counter some of the effect of the original decline in aggregate demand, and, in the long run, will increase industrial production in Germany as the economy recovers and will lead to higher demand, employment, and output in Eastern Europe.

    The cause of the economic downturn is outside Eastern Europe’s control, but the severity of it is due to structural inefficiencies within Eastern European economies. The Ministry, in coordination with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, is negotiating the permanent reduction and elimination of all duties and tariffs on goods transported between Germany and all Eastern European countries. As part of the agreement Eastern European governments will adopt specific rules to minimize political interference in business, facilitate international investment and ownership of industry, and facilitate the transfer of financial assets between countries.

    The Ministry will begin providing official development assistance to all countries of Eastern Europe. The failure of previous industrialization efforts and the over-reliance on resource extraction are the main reasons for the severity of the current downturn. The Department of Economic Cooperation and Development will provide and administer funding for specific projects in Eastern Europe that are found to contribute to the region’s economic development. Specific guidelines for projects will be set in coordination with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

    The Ministry expects the exchange rates for Eastern European currencies to stabilize shortly after the announcement of currency swaps by the Reichsbank. Aggregate demand will remain bellow potential for at least twelve months, although fiscal expansion following the use of the Ministry’s credit lines should alleviate some of the decline within two to three months. Unemployment will remain elevated will into next year.

    It is likely that this downturn will result in the end of Eastern Europe’s reliance on resource extraction. The failure of this sector during the downturn will result in a drain of labor and capital away from the sector and into industry, commerce, and services. With the support offered to the region by the Department of Economic Cooperation and Development it is likely that within four to six years Eastern Europe will no longer be dependent on resource extraction for the majority of its economic output.

  12. #1732
    Banned Delex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDutchie View Post
    Same difference...
    Actually not. When i entered PCP, I never taught the party would promote decolonization, which was clearly not written in the parties agenda. Thats why I'm currently dissatisfied with the move it is taking. So not the same thing.

  13. #1733
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    On Delex his movement, may minister C_c at least propose his plan for more democracy before we move on to Delex rubberstamp-democracy or actions too drastic to contemplate?

    On Goerings trial: we must object to parliament judging if an accused is guilty or not, thats were judges are for.

    A very tired Vice Chanchellor FlyingDutchie.
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  14. #1734
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delex View Post
    Actually not. When i entered PCP, I never taught the party would promote decolonization, which was clearly not written in the parties agenda. Thats why I'm currently dissatisfied with the move it is taking. So not the same thing.
    To be fair to the PCP, they have announced long ago that their stance on the colonies is the same as those of Bismarck, namely that they are completely and utterly useless. Is you disagree you should take it up with great-chairman or admiral yamamot.
    Current work: The Sons of Castille - a Castille CK 2 AAR, The German Empire during the 2nd Weltkrieg - A Kaiserreich DH AAR

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  15. #1735
    Banned Delex's Avatar

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    The current government already rules the country as it was a dictature, on the end they could probably even end democracy fully, which is even so or so does not exist, since the elections were over. And i do understand the government for not wanting to share power, since who would want to do that anyway eh?

  16. #1736
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDutchie View Post
    On Delex his movement, may minister C_c at least propose his plan for more democracy before we move on to Delex rubberstamp-democracy or actions too drastic to contemplate?

    On Goerings trial: we must object to parliament judging if an accused is guilty or not, thats were judges are for.

    A very tired Vice Chanchellor FlyingDutchie.
    We'll wait for the proposition, but remember your options remain: referendum decision, autocracy, compromise or bending

    Also a friednly reminder to keep all arguments clean. Let's not forget we're playing a game here people


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  17. #1737
    Banned Delex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingDutchie View Post
    On Delex his movement, may minister C_c at least propose his plan for more democracy before we move on to Delex rubberstamp-democracy or actions too drastic to contemplate?

    On Goerings trial: we must object to parliament judging if an accused is guilty or not, thats were judges are for.

    A very tired Vice Chanchellor FlyingDutchie.
    Rubberstamp-democracy? Do you even know what democracy is? You have chosen the wrong party to call my democracy that way.
    Last edited by Delex; 04-01-2010 at 22:43.

  18. #1738
    Major Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I am sorry, maybe I was away for too long, but I still do not understand why an elected government should share power with people and parties not in the government? I do not see Gordon Brown inviting Conservatives into his government or President Obama seeking to have the Republicans approve every one of his decisions. If you dislike what the government is doing vote against it in 1938. Simple as that.

  19. #1739
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delex View Post
    The current government already rules the country as it was a dictature, on the end they could probably even end democracy fully, which is even so or so does not exist, since the elections were over. And i do understand the government for not wanting to share power, since who would want to do that anyway eh?
    In my opinion, and please correct me if I am wrong, your plan would give the current coalition the majority of the votes. In most cases government descisions are very close to the programmes of the parties involved. The coalitionmembers would support the government. The plans of the government would still be carried out. I am afraid your plan will simply do nothing more than delay descisions and give TRP more needless work. Thats why I cannot agree with your proposal, even if I agree we should find a way for the Reichstag to be more active.

    C_c is also working on a plan, are you willing to at least consider his plan?
    Current work: The Sons of Castille - a Castille CK 2 AAR, The German Empire during the 2nd Weltkrieg - A Kaiserreich DH AAR

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  20. #1740
    Banned Delex's Avatar

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    FlyingDutchie-Decisions are already delayed, not to mention that there is no democracy and there are million discussions for which this forum might get banned just because you are not willing to share power or vote on something. And ever heard about an parliament representative being only responsible to his consciousness and not his party? So its not necessarily that your decisions would get passed, if they were actually voted on.

    How can I consider something what is not there? And I'm ready for compromises, to say the least.

    EDIT:
    Stormbringer -UK and US democracy is different from the rest of Europe. And its wirtten in the rules of this AAR that: "Rule 1 of Realpolitik: Democracy is absolute. Even when the nazi's or communists are elected into office, they will still have to answer to the opposition and face elections every two years".

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