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Thread: Realpolitik - An interactive AAR concept

  1. #1681
    Quote Originally Posted by mk11 View Post
    - As someone who shares your desire to see all Germans united into one country, I will state why we are not even considering invasions of those countries at this time. The Syndicalists are very strong, and as such, we cannot dilute the forces and manpower of ourselves and non-Syndicalist powers through conflict. Rather, what the best path at the moment is to internally reform these countries such that it makes the peaceful takeover of them at a later date easier. The great Chinese philosopher Sun Tzu once said, "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." Why fight, when we can take them over eventually without firing a shot?
    Doing that we don't gain the economic benefits of war, which is why a limited war against the Netherlands, Austria, Hungary, and Egypt would be the best.
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  2. #1682
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    Gentlemen, if I may allow myself a comment,

    I agree with the here comrade Avatar Federal

    The present situation begs, and will increasingly continue to do so, for a decisive strategy. By opposing pan-nationalism to syndicalism, Germany would offer a credible alternative to the masses, at least for central europe

  3. #1683
    Lurker Extraordinaire mk11's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar Federal
    Doing that we don't gain the economic benefits of war, which is why a limited war against the Netherlands, Austria, Hungary, and Egypt would be the best.
    - We will do what is necessary, when it is necessary. The problem with "limited" wars is that either they fail or they get a lot less limited very quickly.

    You have still not answered the primary issue of needless wastage of men and materiel in a war between us and an Austria or a Hungary.

  4. #1684
    Quote Originally Posted by mk11 View Post
    - We will do what is necessary, when it is necessary. The problem with "limited" wars is that either they fail or they get a lot less limited very quickly.

    You have still not answered the primary issue of needless wastage of men and materiel in a war between us and an Austria or a Hungary.
    It's not needless, it's necessary for two reasons:

    1. Economics

    A. Going to war will decrease unemployment, by leading to a higher demand for war material, meaning companies will hire more people.

    B. It will decrease unemployment through enlistment/conscription.

    C. This decrease in unemployment will lead to an increase in consumer spending.

    D. After we win the wars, we can have German companies come in for reconstruction.

    E. We would gain access to new markets and resources.

    2. National

    A. By uniting the Germans we would increase morale/lower dissent.

    B. We would show France that we will defend German lands, and possibly deter their attack.

    C. If we don't do it, the Soviet Union eventually will.
    Disarming ourselves, in a world of arms. Meditating, in a world of haste and anger. Being peace, in a world of war.

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  5. #1685
    By invading austria-Hungary not only will mass causlites arise and the austrians will not comply. I stand with Mk by saying that your war is unesssary. The point of joining with austria is to have a unified german econmy and this war will damage man power and industry. This Is why going to attack the ottomans is better. We have a more modern army and can liberate the abused people.
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  6. #1686
    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    By invading austria-Hungary not only will mass causlites arise and the austrians will not comply. I stand with Mk by saying that your war is unesssary. The point of joining with austria is to have a unified german econmy and this war will damage man power and industry. This Is why going to attack the ottomans is better. We have a more modern army and can liberate the abused people.
    Please, the Ottoman plan is insane. At least there are portions of the Austrian population who want/desire German rule.

    The economic benefits gained will bring us immediately out of the economic crisis, with a well-armed military, new territory, and the unification of the German people.

    The Ottoman plan... offers us nothing other than men dying over deserts... which we won't even own...
    Disarming ourselves, in a world of arms. Meditating, in a world of haste and anger. Being peace, in a world of war.

    Consider joining, The Buddhist Peace Party in E Plurbis Unum.

  7. #1687
    QUOTE=Avatar Federal] It's not needless, it's necessary for two reasons:

    1. Economics

    A. Going to war will decrease unemployment, by leading to a higher demand for war material, meaning companies will hire more people.

    A war with the ottomans is a 100 times better due to the untaped oil

    B. It will decrease unemployment through enlistment/conscription.

    Untill all the wars are over, then what? They will be men on the streets who know how to shoot a gun and that will be horrible

    C. This decrease in unemployment will lead to an increase in consumer spending.
    But with what resources gained? You can double this happiness with oil and spices

    D. After we win the wars, we can have German companies come in for reconstruction.
    And when reconstruction is finished they will roam on the streets aswell

    E. We would gain access to new markets and resources.

    You think the austrians we invaded will comply with us? No way but liberated arabs would love to help us

    2. National

    A. By uniting the Germans we would increase morale/lower dissent.

    Hmm lower dissent? it would only increase. Germans invading Germans makes no sense and would stir up dissent within Bavaria, which is the same reason hitler incorperated them through peace and economic recover of germans in Germany.

    B. We would show France that we will defend German lands, and possibly deter their attack.

    France would merely take advantage and attack us back!

    C. If we don't do it, the Soviet Union eventually will

    If the soviets role in then they must go through our border states which means it is impissible to reach them without going through us!
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  8. #1688
    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    A war with the ottomans is a 100 times better due to the untaped oil
    Big deal, Oil isn't critical to us now. Not to mention if we're really after Oil we ought to attack the Hejaz.

    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    Untill all the wars are over, then what? They will be men on the streets who know how to shoot a gun and that will be horrible.
    They will be gradually instituted into civilian life. Not to mention they could get work reconstructing some of the areas we conquer, or staying as occupiers. Not to mention that they can and will gain valuable skills serving with the German Army.

    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    But with what resources gained? You can double this happiness with oil and spices
    With the money they're being paid with?

    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    And when reconstruction is finished they will roam on the streets aswell
    Or, they'll move on. Understand I want a war-time economy, this isn't just mobilize own the Netherlands, Austria, and Egypt then be done. It's mobilize, mobilize, and when the moment is right we take it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    You think the austrians we invaded will comply with us? No way but liberated arabs would love to help us!
    Yes, I do. They're Germans. There are Pan-Germanist movements in Austria gaining momentum.

    Liberated Arabs, would help us with what? Oil. Ok, let's just invade the Hejaz on our way to Egypt and gain even more Oil.

    Also, annexing Austria gives us lots of industry that we can utilize.

    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post

    Hmm lower dissent? it would only increase. Germans invading Germans makes no sense and would stir up dissent within Bavaria, which is the same reason hitler incorperated them through peace and economic recover of germans in Germany.
    It wouldn't be seen that way, it would be seen as integration.

    OOC:Just as the Anschluss was IRL.

    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    France would merely take advantage and attack us back!
    How does Germany annexing Austria, the Netherlands, and Egypt work towards the advantage of the... French?

    Quote Originally Posted by kovan09 View Post
    If the soviets role in then they must go through our border states which means it is impissible to reach them without going through us!
    Or we could invade them first because we'll have a much better/larger/stronger military thanks to the Mitteleuropan industry and resources.
    Disarming ourselves, in a world of arms. Meditating, in a world of haste and anger. Being peace, in a world of war.

    Consider joining, The Buddhist Peace Party in E Plurbis Unum.

  9. #1689
    Please, the Ottoman plan is insane. At least there are portions of the Austrian population who want/desire German rule.

    Insane?? It is the liberation of abused peoples but Austria can not be invaded, they helped us through a lot while the ottomans are misusing there controled land. Small portions of Austria vs half of the ottoman empire? Really the numbers tilt toward the junck plan

    The economic benefits gained will bring us immediately out of the economic crisis, with a well-armed military, new territory, and the unification of the German people.

    I stated this in my last post on why our plan won't work

    The Ottoman plan... offers us nothing other than men dying over deserts... which we won't even own...

    We are going to make these nations our allies and keep there resources from falling into the wrong hands. I did the plan in a game and it was a full blown success with almost 10 manpower loss and only up to 24 divisions which let's us leave our forces defending home.
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  10. #1690
    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar Federal View Post
    Please, the Ottoman plan is insane. At least there are portions of the Austrian population who want/desire German rule.

    The economic benefits gained will bring us immediately out of the economic crisis, with a well-armed military, new territory, and the unification of the German people.

    The Ottoman plan... offers us nothing other than men dying over deserts... which we won't even own...
    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar Federal View Post
    Big deal, Oil isn't critical to us now. Not to mention if we're really after Oil we ought to attack the Hejaz.



    They will be gradually instituted into civilian life. Not to mention they could get work reconstructing some of the areas we conquer, or staying as occupiers. Not to mention that they can and will gain valuable skills serving with the German Army.



    With the money they're being paid with?



    Or, they'll move on. Understand I want a war-time economy, this isn't just mobilize own the Netherlands, Austria, and Egypt then be done. It's mobilize, mobilize, and when the moment is right we take it all.



    Yes, I do. They're Germans. There are Pan-Germanist movements in Austria gaining momentum.

    Liberated Arabs, would help us with what? Oil. Ok, let's just invade the Hejaz on our way to Egypt and gain even more Oil.

    Also, annexing Austria gives us lots of industry that we can utilize.



    It wouldn't be seen that way, it would be seen as integration.

    OOC:Just as the Anschluss was IRL.



    How does Germany annexing Austria, the Netherlands, and Egypt work towards the advantage of the... French?



    Or we could invade them first because we'll have a much better/larger/stronger military thanks to the Mitteleuropan industry and resources.
    You infer to much. We must always be prepared for failure. I will post my rebudle tomorrow. It's 12:15 and I need to sleep good night
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  11. #1691
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    Looks like the opposition is on the move . Nice debates guys, we hope Avatar Federal gets some members for his NS party soon.

    Where is the Left in all this? It seems the current discussion is dominated by far-right vs liberals.

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  12. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commissarvlad View Post
    A very strong point Delex, but after some investigation of the page of the Prussian Conservative Party. (Your Party). I found the following quote.

    This quote was given as a response to Mad General, link is here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...hp?groupid=274

    Hmmph. Seems like you are ferrying in an autocracy in the guise of a democratic reform. I for one stand for the implementation of the 20+1 system, which would give minor parties a greater say in politics of the nation.

    On a side note, why is an author of the AAR allowed to participate in the AAR? It seems like that has provided some slanting towards the party of his choosing.
    In case you didn't notice. all other parties, the socialists and fascists (Got no liberals) have no say at all in the government (So yea, the PCP has not only some 40%, but we got 100%). So yea my system is fully PCP centered as you said it. Its not like anyone which actually read how the system would work and posses some basic knowledge of maths couldn't find out how much seats someone would get in case the system got invoked.

    If you look at the post i explained it to mad general, which toughed it was some kind of liberal crap.

  13. #1693
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    Alright, it happened, Realpolitik has more posts than Raise the Crimson Banner, next stop, The Channel pact.
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  14. #1694
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  15. #1695
    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar Federal View Post
    Big deal, Oil isn't critical to us now. Not to mention if we're really after Oil we ought to attack the Hejaz.
    Oil is critical, as Germany is in an oil deficit at the start of 1936. Even the vaunted colonies don't provide much. Rather, you can argue that the amount of oil needed to defend those regions is greater than the oil gained out.

    As you seem to be somewhat versed in economics, I don't see why you ignore the fact that the colonies don't return much. It's fine if you want to keep them as a sort of prestige deal, but keep in mind that is prestige that can easily be ripped away.

    The idea of attacking countries we are seeking as allies in the hopes they'll roll over and accept annexation is wishful thinking. For one, you now have nationalist feelings that Syndies can use to fuel revolts. Two, you give Syndies valuable war material. They can portray Germany as a warmongering, land hungry monster.

    Don't you think they have enough allies? Why do you want to give them more?

  16. #1696
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    Avatar Federal speaks much sense. His policies are basically identical to mine, and as such I support him. As long as the Kaiser retains his proper place at the top of society.

  17. #1697
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    Gentlemen...

    The current political situation in the world rightfully worries all Germans. The people demand action, but they can rest assured knowing that the government is busy taking action right now. We just wish to propose finished plans to the Reichstag instead of half baked and unfinished plans.

    Also, some of the rightwing members of the Reichstag are clamouring for blood. The blood of syndicalists and non-syndicalists alike. Certain members even demand the blood of our Austrian brothers! To them I say, not as long as I am your Vice Chancellor. Austria-Hungary is a bulwark against syndicalism and the populism currently raising its ugly head in Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia. Germany has and will stand by our Austrian and Hungarian brothers, just as like we did during the Weltkrieg.

    At last I like to comment on the Muller plan, the reconstruction of our German colonial empire. Some of you are demanding we keep these colonies German for eternity, ignoring the facts that the colonies are not, have never been and will never be economical profitable. The colonies are a drain on the German economy.
    Does this mean we will simply abandon the peoples of Africa? No, we will gradually introduce them to self-government. We will educate, stimulate and raise them to fend for themselves. They will know that Germany is the defender of all peoples in the world.
    Doing so is not only the morally just and economical sound strategy, it is also the best way to prevent all these peoples from falling to the seductions of syndicalism. The horrors of Görings rule over Mittelafrika has caused widespread poverty, hunger and despair. Unless we act now, the peoples of Africa will look to the cheap promises and solutions of the syndicalists. Therefore the government will continue the Muller plan, as it is politically wise, morally just and economically sound...
    Last edited by FlyingDutchie; 04-01-2010 at 15:41.
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  18. #1698
    Contra-Vice-Double Colonel Alexus's Avatar
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    the reconstruction of our German colonial empire
    More like DECONSTRUCTION.

    YEAH.

  19. #1699
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    So now we have a party calling themselves the German Reichspartei while they are advocating treason against the Reich. How dare they question the power of the Kaiser or even suggest such lunacy as turning against our Austrian allies. While this new party is amusingly right when it comes to education and the fact that Syndicalism must be erradicated, they are not true German nationalists. We must praise the Kaiser as the wise leader he is and invite Austria to become a close ally, thus advocating Pan- German collaboration.
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  20. #1700
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    I must object to the term deconstruction when it comes to the Muller plan. Deconstruction signifies tearing something down and leaving it in shambles. The Muller plan wishes to turn something that is in shambles into something all Germans can be proud of.
    Hence the term reconstruction instead of deconstruction. Decontruction is the forte of men like Fat Man Goering...
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