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Ah, so instead of maybe explaining why the concept of supply and demand is not working to set prices you attack my person by saying that I'm not intelligent enough to understand what an analogy is. How very mature of you.
Now you are combining two wars into one. The French-Prussian war that led to the unification of Germany and the Austro-Prussian war that determined Prussian leadership in Germany. While the Austro-Prussian war was part of the unification process by forcing the Hohenzollerns to accept that they could no longer deny german unification the German states were not forced to become part of the Empire in 1871.
You obviously did not understand my point: You said that everyone who did not work would not be able to feed their family. Where did your welfare go?
Now you are again mixing up the points of my argument. I was comparing our army to the armies of the Entente at that time not to the military concepts that have been developed during the last years.
You again fail to see my point. If your party seizes power, do you really believe that the evil capitalists and their minions will just leave the country and will let you do as you desire? No! With your extremistic plans you will spark a civil war because those that you wish to rob of their gains will fight for their property and for their way of life. Thats what I meant when I said that you will cause a civil war.
And you are so stubbornly focused on revolutionary progress that you fail to see the price that this progress will cost you in the long term. If I have the choice whether I want instant progress bought at the cost of countless lives and the prosperity of a whole nation or if I want moderate progress over a longer time, I'm with moderate progress. But that point is obviously lost on you.
The commies can only talk and write much but when they must act they do nothing!!! 
If you vote on the commies they will just destroy our Germany!
So VOTE for NCRP and we will defend Germany!
P.S. 2 days left until voting!
If you vote on the commies they will just destroy our Germany!
So VOTE for NCRP and we will defend Germany!
P.S. 2 days left until voting!
Ah, so instead of maybe accepting the fact that you wholly misunderstood my point and failed to see the analogy you instead try and spin your failure onto a malicious attack on my part. How very mature of you.
But the German states north of the Rhine were placed into the North German Confederation, headed by Prussia, while the German states south of the Rhine were forced into pledging allegiance to Prussia. The Austro-Prussian War united the German states de facto, if not de jure.
If you honestly believe that Prussian opposition to Austria stemmed from some great desire to unite Germany, you are sadly mistaken. Bismarck was an opportunist who sought to exploit any situation which would diminish Austrian power and promote Prussian strength. Unification was only one of these opportunities.
In keeping with your ideology, you think in small, individualist terms. Workers need to work in order produce goods and services for society as a whole. The proletarians will work because they know that their labour benefits them, as it makes products available.
Being 'comparatively' better is meaningless; after all, a rotten tomato makes 'comparatively' better eating than a plank of wood.
So because the capitalists and the industrialists will fail to abide by the result of a democratic election, using military force to resist us, it is our fault that a civil war will occur?
That is self-serving and fallacious. The upper classes will be responsible for any and all ensuing violence, as they would clearly show their contempt for democracy - that phrase they do so love to bandy about - by refusing to acknowledge a democratic election, instead choosing to commit treason and bloodshed.
Moderate progress is political speak for years of delays and pointless bickering, with the capitalists dragging their heels over every insignificant point.
Tell me, who was responsible for the downfall of the era of autocracy and the advent of liberalism - the 'moderates' or the revolutionaries?
So you complain about the Socialists not acting, before proceeding to advocate not giving them the opportunity to act?The commies can only talk and write much but when they must act they do nothing!!!
If you vote on the commies they will just destroy our Germany!
Circular logic is circular.
Ok, maybe I failed to see your point. What I understood from your analogy is that all merchants only exploit the farmer by buying his wares at too low a price and then selling these same goods at a way higher price and thus robbing the farmer of his possible profit. So I answered to you with the concept of supply and demand: If a merchant does as you describe another merchant will inevitably show up and will be either paying the farmer higher prices for his goods and sell it at the same price as the former merchant (thus making less profit than former merchant but improving the situation of the farmer) or he will be buying at the same price (always provided the farmer is willing to sell at this price, a choice he would not have if his farm was nationalized) and selling at a lower price than the other merchant and by this he is improving conditions for his buyers. So please tell me where I failed to grasp your analogy.
Oh yeah I still remember these large revolts against Prussian oppression. Some horrible massacres had to be conducted to force all these ingrates into this horrible scheme. [/irony]
What you mean is not the Rhine but the Main.
The northern states picked their allies and all of them supported Prussia (except for Hanover) They knew what they were supporting.
And the south was never forced into anything. They did not join by force in 1867 and they voluntarily allied themselves to Prussia against the French in 1870.
May that be as it may, even if Bismarck was only the power-hungry, back-stabbing opportunist you want to paint him as, he still achieved German unification, something that was impossible for over a century and was the will of the people.
In my opinion your outlook on the human nature is that of a idealist. While I like that personally it is nothing you build a society on. Once people don't have to work for their survival alone, they work because they want to have more than their peers, they want to be able to show off. That may be a sad view on the world as you will surely notice, it's the sad truth that can't be changed just by Nationalizing all factories or driving out the capitalists.
I don't see your point. You said our armed forces had crappy leadership in the Weltkrieg. I was saying that our armed forces were better than you tried to paint them. You said they were worse in the Weltkrieg than they are now. I said that I was not comparing them to our forces now but to the enemy forces during the Weltkrieg. You say that this comparison is moot. To which army do you want to compare them? You wanted to compare an army from 20 years ago to an army today, of course they are inferior they had nearly no tanks, no planes, no aircraft carriers and so on.
I was not talking of the elections, I was talking of the policies you will be implementing once electing. And of course they won't be overjoyed to be stripped of their factories, houses, money and so on. And thats why I am placing the responsibility on you. If you ignore the consequences of your actions you are as much to blame as the ones who are starting a civil war, as you are forcing them to react in this way.
Well I may have missed a few revolutions in the Kaiserreich lately, but last time I looked the increasing strength of democratic institutions was not caused by revolutionaries but by Moderates that worked within the system and did not try to break it apart and build it up from scratch.
VOTE IRON FIST for a STRONGER GERMANY
A MILLION NEW JOBS
A MILLION NEW TROOPS
Keep the Socialist hordes at bay!
Join now!
A MILLION NEW JOBS
A MILLION NEW TROOPS
Keep the Socialist hordes at bay!
Join now!
And MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Well Sund has a meaning as it means a strait like the Öresund, but I bet this is not what he intended to post
Well Sund has a meaning as it means a strait like the Öresund, but I bet this is not what he intended to post
You sure? I cant recall any meaning to the word, the comarison you gave is the same as if I would write geSUND (Healthy) or sUNDE (Sin- Yes i know that S has to be big and U lacks an umlaut).
Well Sund has a meaning as it means a strait like the Öresund, but I bet this is not what he intended to post
You have right
Sund means in swedish strait.
Enough bickering. Let us talk of what we will actually do once in office. The Prussian Conservative Party, being a party looking to the best interests of the German people, recognize that the Kaiserreich needs reform. However, we will do it in a controlled manner, to create the least amount of chaos. Medicine cures, but too much medicine will kill you as dead as the disease.
Woman's Suffrage
We should work toward it in a gradual, controlled fashion. Giving suffrage to those who contribute to the war effort, and not others is unsound. Some may not be able to contribute in the needed manner. What if they are unable to get a factory or hospital job? Currently, all German men 25 and above have the vote. Our objective is for all Germans, 25 and above to have their rightful say in the workings of the Fatherland.
Ideally, we would open up positions of responsibility in a graduated manner, such as:
1) Voting on the local level.
2) Running for office on the local level.
3) Voting on the regional level.
4) Running for office on the regional level.
5) Voting on the national level.
6) Running for office on the national level.
Yes, it is a slow process, depending on how many years you want each step to take. However, it would allow the smoothest, least turbulent transition. It isn't that we want to keep them from voting and holding positions. We want to take it slowly enough that there can be no doubt as to the right of women to vote and hold office. Rushing it is a bad idea. After all, even our most brilliant field marshals had to attend the Kriegsschule as a cadet.
Education
Prussia was one of the first kingdoms in the world to establish a free and compulsory primary education, as well as a standardized teacher's examination and the Abitur. We plan to carry on this proud tradition by extending state subsidy to secondary schools as well, allowing all German youth, regardless of background, to obtain a greater education, necessary in our industrialized world.
Tertiary education is more problematic to fully subsidize, due to the necessity for greater costs and more experienced professors. However, we of the Prussian Conservative Party believe that it is a tragedy to waste the minds of German youth, and have come up with a plan that we believe will enable any German student sufficiently motivated to obtain a tertiary education.
1) Students will study their field for a certain amount of time, perhaps on the order of 2-3 years. In this time, they will learn the basics of their trade.
2) After that 2-3 years, they will get employed in that field for 1/2 year to a year. Here they get hands on, practical experience while they apply what they've learned.
3) Another 1-2 years schooling.
4) Another 1/2-1 year of hands on work and employment.
5) Graduation, after which they will be fully prepared to work in their industry.
Note that these times are merely examples, and flexibility is fully encouraged in this program.
During their work periods, the students are paid minimum wage, as a living stipend. The rest of their paychecks would go to their universities or colleges as tuition. Thanks to prior arrangements between university and employer, the student can benefit from greater wages then he or she would have from independently finding a job. This source of income, in addition to partial government subsidy of tertiary education, means that the student would have to pay a meager amount, if that, out of pocket. More students would have higher education open to them, and a better educated Germany is a stronger Germany.
Woman's Suffrage
We should work toward it in a gradual, controlled fashion. Giving suffrage to those who contribute to the war effort, and not others is unsound. Some may not be able to contribute in the needed manner. What if they are unable to get a factory or hospital job? Currently, all German men 25 and above have the vote. Our objective is for all Germans, 25 and above to have their rightful say in the workings of the Fatherland.
Ideally, we would open up positions of responsibility in a graduated manner, such as:
1) Voting on the local level.
2) Running for office on the local level.
3) Voting on the regional level.
4) Running for office on the regional level.
5) Voting on the national level.
6) Running for office on the national level.
Yes, it is a slow process, depending on how many years you want each step to take. However, it would allow the smoothest, least turbulent transition. It isn't that we want to keep them from voting and holding positions. We want to take it slowly enough that there can be no doubt as to the right of women to vote and hold office. Rushing it is a bad idea. After all, even our most brilliant field marshals had to attend the Kriegsschule as a cadet.
Education
Prussia was one of the first kingdoms in the world to establish a free and compulsory primary education, as well as a standardized teacher's examination and the Abitur. We plan to carry on this proud tradition by extending state subsidy to secondary schools as well, allowing all German youth, regardless of background, to obtain a greater education, necessary in our industrialized world.
Tertiary education is more problematic to fully subsidize, due to the necessity for greater costs and more experienced professors. However, we of the Prussian Conservative Party believe that it is a tragedy to waste the minds of German youth, and have come up with a plan that we believe will enable any German student sufficiently motivated to obtain a tertiary education.
1) Students will study their field for a certain amount of time, perhaps on the order of 2-3 years. In this time, they will learn the basics of their trade.
2) After that 2-3 years, they will get employed in that field for 1/2 year to a year. Here they get hands on, practical experience while they apply what they've learned.
3) Another 1-2 years schooling.
4) Another 1/2-1 year of hands on work and employment.
5) Graduation, after which they will be fully prepared to work in their industry.
Note that these times are merely examples, and flexibility is fully encouraged in this program.
During their work periods, the students are paid minimum wage, as a living stipend. The rest of their paychecks would go to their universities or colleges as tuition. Thanks to prior arrangements between university and employer, the student can benefit from greater wages then he or she would have from independently finding a job. This source of income, in addition to partial government subsidy of tertiary education, means that the student would have to pay a meager amount, if that, out of pocket. More students would have higher education open to them, and a better educated Germany is a stronger Germany.
Then why did you tell me to put sund?
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!
Even the atheist bolsheviks!
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And why would a merchant do either of these actions?
Capitalists are dedicated soley to maximising their profits and minimising their costs - neither of which would be achieved by paying more for their wares than their competitors and selling them at the same price, or paying the same cost for his wares and selling them at a lower price.
For someone who claims to subscribe to the laws of demand and supply, you seem to have a poor grasp of economics.
Except for Hannover. Could this possibly be due to the fact that Prussia annexed Hannover following the Austro-Prussian War?
Oh yes; if you ignore the nations who were annexed or disbanded by Prussia, and the nations who had just been invaded, it was all totally voluntary.
German unification had been achieved in 1849 with the creation of the Constituent Assembly; King William I of Prussia was even offered the title of German Emperor, which he turned down. Prussia then colluded with Austria to disband the parliament, delaying German unification by decades.
Better sufficient resources for all rather than extravagant wealth for the few and horrific poverty for the rest.
Wrong.
I say that claiming our Armed Forces during the Weltkrieg were comparatively better than that of our enemies is a moot point, since they were equally inflexible and archaic.
As I said: "That is self-serving and fallacious."
If the capitalists and industrialists value their wealth more than the democratically-elected government or the State, than they are traitors to Germany itself. If they cannot abide by the majority decision of the people, they are not republicans, nor are they democratic. By resorting to violence, they have undermined the liberalism on which Germany has prided itself.
If the LCP won the election and the Iron Fist Party responded to this by attempting a coup d'etat, would you then support the latter, claiming that it is the former's fault because they allowed themselves to be elected?
And who even gave you this system in the first place?
If it was not for the revolutionaries in France, liberalism would not even exist; we would all still be shackled under absolute monarchs. It is the revolutionaries - the extremists, as you like to call them - that have given you the ability to be able to speak your mind without fear of punishment, to freely follow your beliefs, to vote in parliament, to decide the leaders of your nation.
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Friends, countrymen, Germans. Lend me your ears.
We come not to debate history, but to vote for the wise and the enlightened.
May Germany remain strong, and may moderation reign, for in excess lies vice and misery.
LCP
We come not to debate history, but to vote for the wise and the enlightened.
May Germany remain strong, and may moderation reign, for in excess lies vice and misery.
LCP
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This is the status quo that the so-called "centrists" seek to maintain.
Don't use your vote to further reinforce this Feudalist class system.
Vote for change.
Vote for the United German Socialist Alliance.
Ein Welt unter sozialismus!
The poor understanding is on your side. That may be the reason why you support the Syndicalists. Let me explain:
Let's say merchant A buys item L for 5 Reichsmark and sells it for 10 thus making a profit of 5 Reichsmark. But now a new merchant named B offers the worker to buy item L for 6 Reichsmark and will sell it for 10 for a profit of only 4. Who will the worker sell his item to? Merchant A for 5 Reichsmark or merchant B for 6? Of course the one paying him more. Now merchant B may be making less profit than merchant A before, but now he is making a profit instead of A, so he has got a reason to do this, because he wants to increase his personal wealth.
The other way works exactly like that: If you have merchant C offering to sell his product at 9 Reichsmark and merchant D offering to sell at 10 RM, who will people be buying from? The reason the merchants will do this is exactly the same as above: Personal gain.
Oh yes, because a german unification without incorporating the german nations into the Reich would totally be a unification
Maybe you should blame individual kings or persons instead of noncorporeal identities. There is no Prussia that can actually do anything. There may be a Prussian king or a chancellor but you can't just blame a whole nation for a choice one person made. The same logic is applied if you condemn all leftist movements by saying that one leading person of one movement is an extremist.
I fail to see the relevance of this statement in response to me saying that people are motivated by greed if they are well fed and clothed. Can't you rebuke my argument?
In that logic you can't compare the Army of Napoleon and the Prussian army of that time because from modern view they are equally inflexible and archaic. You can't apply modern standards of knowledge and military tactics to a comparison between armed forces of the same time because it would, as you pointed out make the comparison moot, that's why it's never done.
Please read my post before you reply to it. I said
I AM talking of your policies of nationalization and stripping the nobility of their rights. If you think that these measures will NOT cause a reaction from said groups you are living in a dream world.sheep-dodger said:
But even the french revolutionaries had moderates and extremists, when the latter gained power they started the Reign of Terror. This is why I'm calling for moderation and not extremism.
Socialism is nothing but shared poverty. One cannot recieve an excellent day's work for an average day's pay! Why would one wish to excel, when no reward is given for excelling? Capitalism offers solid money and bread. Socialism offers nothing but platitudes and propaganda!
Without bonii, why bother? Workers, will work Smart, not Hard, if they are not rewarded for working hard.
LCP acknowledges this and says, look. We'll sponsor bonuses for workers, and support unions in such a fight, on the condition of course, they are not extreme and crippling to the manager involved.
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