Realpolitik - An interactive AAR concept

[Delex]

Have you noticed that the angel is wearing red?

Lol I was wondering at the same.

[great_chairman]

Have you noticed that the angel is wearing red?

Have you noticed that the colors of the old Hanseatic League were red and white? It is a tribute to our heritage as Germans, not some vulgar reference to the madness of Syndicalism.

[HMAS-Nameless]

Have you noticed that the colors of the old Hanseatic League were red and white? It is a tribute to our heritage as Germans, not some vulgar reference to the madness of Syndicalism.

So you say that trading away our goods rather than giving it the people of that produced them is German heritage!

[great_chairman]

So you say that trading away our goods rather than giving it the people of that produced them is German heritage!

Yes, quite. You see, unlike Syndicalists, we Capitalists understand the concept of working for a living. And before you begin spewing drivel about the managers doing no work, would you say that the NCOs and officers of an army do no work?

[OAM]

A party which shared your same, unprincipled, weak-minded ideology.

The liberal centrists allowed the militaristic monarchists to prevail the first time round, and if elected, they shall do so again.

You quote my warning against the logical fallacy and make the same fallacy in the same post, amazing!

[sheep-dodger]

Just a note IRON FIST UND NRCP SIND (the iron fist and nrcp are 2 which makes it plural) DIE ZUKUNFT (Future is feminine in German). And its not FUR DAS KAISER, but its für den Kaiser. And: "Help us help you make a much better Welt" -Although its correct, its sounds kinda stupid (Personal opinion).

OMG Thanks! All that bad german grammar in this thread is making my eyes bleed :P

[Syriana]

Militaristic? You call us militaristic, when you seek to embroil Germany in the sort of civil war that France is still fighting to this day? Nothing can come from Syndicalism but fire and ruin - we saw that with Russia, we saw that with France, and if this idiocy is not stopped, we will see it with Germany.

It was Otto von Bismarck - your beloved Prussian hero - who once said: "Not through speeches will the great questions of the day be decided - that was the great mistake of 1848 and 1849 - but by iron and blood."

You quote my warning against the logical fallacy and make the same fallacy in the same post, amazing!

Your party - amongst others - is using the actions of Syndicalists in other nations to condemn the United German Socialist Alliance.

By your logic, are you not also engaging in a logical fallacy, as we are a different entity to the Syndicalists but we share their ideology?

You see, unlike Syndicalists, we Capitalists understand the concept of working for a living.

Oh, of course.

After all, what would the proletarians who spend hours each day performing strenuous labour for poor pay know about working for a living?

Clearly, it is the capitalists and industrialists - a majority of whom have inherited their wealth from their parents - who really know about working for a living.

And before you begin spewing drivel about the managers doing no work, would you say that the NCOs and officers of an army do no work?

And what of the Generals - incompetent during wartime, corpulent during peacetime?

And while the Non-Commissioned Officers, upon whom the Reichsheer depends, draw their ranks from the lower classes, the slovenly Generals are composed mainly of the upper classes.

[Duke of Wellington]

If you are replying to multiple posts at once use the Multi-Quote function found at the bottom right of each post you're replying to. No need to post two or three times in a row.

[OAM]

Your party - amongst others - is using the actions of Syndicalists in other nations to condemn the United German Socialist Alliance.

By your logic, are you not also engaging in a logical fallacy, as we are a different entity to the Syndicalists but we share their ideology?

Our party believes in working with everyone, if they are cooperative.

[great_chairman]

It was Otto von Bismarck - your beloved Prussian hero - who once said: "Not through speeches will the great questions of the day be decided - that was the great mistake of 1848 and 1849 - but by iron and blood."

You've obviously conveniently forgotten another one of his teachings. "Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting a war."

Oh, of course.

After all, what would the proletarians who spend hours each day performing strenuous labour for poor pay know about working for a living?

Clearly, it is the capitalists and industrialists - a majority of whom have inherited their wealth from their parents - who really know about working for a living.

Poor pay, really now? When Germany has one of the highest standards of living, measured by the bottom 50% income, in the world? When Germany is one of the few nations in the world with subsidized health care?

The merchant and manager are just as necessary to the economy as the farmer and the worker. Unless, of course, you would prefer we return to barbarian ways of hunting and gathering. Then, of course, we can rid ourselves of all the decadent capitalists.

And what of the Generals - incompetent during wartime, corpulent during peacetime?

And while the Non-Commissioned Officers, upon whom the Reichsheer depends, draw their ranks from the lower classes, the slovenly Generals are composed mainly of the upper classes.

Slovenly, incompetent Generals? What do you take us for, the French? Our General Staff beat every foe sent against us. Would you have an army without generals? Would you have a factory without managers? Then you are fools at best and saboteurs at worst.

[JRHINDO]

Question for The Anarcho-Bolshevik National Liberation Movement (ABNB):
If you win full power would you reform the empire to socialism?
And would you join the syndicalist internationale?

[Syriana]

You've obviously conveniently forgotten another one of his teachings. "Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting a war."

That must explain why, under Bismarck, Germany fought in three major wars.

Wait a minute...

Poor pay, really now? When Germany has one of the highest standards of living, measured by the bottom 50% income, in the world?

Comparatively, not definitively.

Mouldy bread is preferable to animal excrement, yet you wouldn't find anyone who would claim that mouldy bread was a good food source.

When Germany is one of the few nations in the world with subsidized health care?

Semi-subsidised healthcare, since it seems that the ruling parties are so inept that they are incapable of fully implementing any policy.

The merchant and manager are just as necessary to the economy as the farmer and the worker.

What will the merchant sell without the farmer to produce his wares?

What purpose will the manager serve when he has no workers to direct?

The capitalist and industrialist elements of society need the lower classes to survive; the lower classes, however, can survive without the upper classes.

Unless, of course, you would prefer we return to barbarian ways of hunting and gathering. Then, of course, we can rid ourselves of all the decadent capitalists.

Dissolving the archaic class system - the last remnant of Medieval Feudalism - is a step forward, not a step back.

Slovenly, incompetent Generals? What do you take us for, the French?

The capitalists? Worse even than the French - at least they have principles.

Our General Staff beat every foe sent against us.

By throwing wave after wave of German workers against their machine gun nests, praying that the enemy would run out of bullets before they would run out of cannon fodder.

The conservative generals can no more assume the tactics necessary for modern warfare than a tractor can assume the duties of a tank.

They are inflexible, arrogant and obsolete.

Would you have an army without generals? Would you have a factory without managers? Then you are fools at best and saboteurs at worst.

The people shall be our Generals.
The people shall be our managers.

Working together in collective unity, we shall render such roles redundant.

[great_chairman]

That must explain why, under Bismarck, Germany fought in three major wars.

Wait a minute...

Hmm, let's see. Austro-Prussian war, where the Austrians reneged on a previously made agreement and declared war. Franco-Prussian war, where, once again, the French declared war, and...what would the third one be? We Germans are not aggressors, but we will fight aggressively to defend the Fatherland.

Comparatively, not definitively.

Mouldy bread is preferable to animal excrement, yet you wouldn't find anyone who would claim that mouldy bread was a good food source.

Correct. The Iron Fist are preferable to the Syndicalists, yet the Iron Fist are hardly a good candidate to govern Germany.

Semi-subsidised healthcare, since it seems that the ruling parties are so inept that they are incapable of fully implementing any policy.

Medicine cures a man, but too much medicine will kill him just as dead as the disease.

What will the merchant sell without the farmer to produce his wares?

What purpose will the manager serve when he has no workers to direct?

The capitalist and industrialist elements of society need the lower classes to survive; the lower classes, however, can survive without the upper classes.

The farmer will be cheated on his wares without a merchant's business sense.

The worker will not know what to do without a manager's direction.

Every son and daughter of the Fatherland is valuable.

The capitalists? Worse even than the French - at least they have principles.

Given that the government has almost never had to enforce the business subsidization of health care and unemployment insurance, I would argue the opposite.

By throwing wave after wave of German workers against their machine gun nests, praying that the enemy would run out of bullets before they would run out of cannon fodder.

The conservative generals can no more assume the tactics necessary for modern warfare than a tractor can assume the duties of a tank.

They are inflexible, arrogant and obsolete.

My dear sir, are you describing the French? Try reading up on Concepts of Annhilation, it will do you good. German warfare has always been based on maneuver and firepower, not manpower.

The people shall be our Generals.
The people shall be our managers.

Working together in collective unity, we shall render such roles redundant.

German people. Listen to this drivel. He would turn us into nothing better then ants! Every person identical, without an independent thought or action. And I suppose that the Bolsheviks would be the queen ant?

[C_c]

That must explain why, under Bismarck, Germany fought in three major wars.

Wait a minute...

I should hope you realize that were it not for Bismark, Germany would not exist. Rather, it would be a fragmented collection of states overseen by Austria. That assumes that Germany wasn't outright annexed by neighboring countries.

We wouldn't have the luxury of this conversation were it not for the Iron Chancellor, but you want to toss him under the tank.

Mouldy bread is preferable to animal excrement, yet you wouldn't find anyone who would claim that mouldy bread was a good food source.

Where are you getting moldy bread from? This is gross exaggeration, no pun intended.

Semi-subsidised healthcare, since it seems that the ruling parties are so inept that they are incapable of fully implementing any policy.

So your argument is as follows...

Syndicalist: There's no health care! We will solve that!!
German: Umm...we've had that, and more, since Bismark.
Syndicalist: There's no uber health care! We will solve that!!

It's a logical fallacy called 'moving goalposts'. The flaw in your argument pointed out, you change 'what you really meant to say' to avoid being trapped by the truth. How quaint.

What will the merchant sell without the farmer to produce his wares?

What purpose will the manager serve when he has no workers to direct?

The capitalist and industrialist elements of society need the lower classes to survive;

It's called an 'economy'. And it works alot better and fairer than the evil you're making it out to be.

the lower classes, however, can survive without the upper classes.

Ok. So how will you manage order? Large scale industries, research, projects, chain of command. If you look at nature, herds, groups, colonies, etc, all have a hierarchy to them. That's because it's what works best for them.

Humans, as social creatures, are all interconnected and require an order. And as humans, it is our duty to make sure that order is as fluid and fair as possible. To want to toss it out is sheer folly.

By throwing wave after wave of German workers against their machine gun nests, praying that the enemy would run out of bullets before they would run out of cannon fodder.

"In 1914 Germany was recognised as having the most efficient army in the world. Its structure included universal mass conscription for short-term military service followed by a longer period in reserve."

There wasn't an 'only workers fought' war. Universal mass conscription means just that: everyone. Isn't that a term you love?

The conservative generals can no more assume the tactics necessary for modern warfare than a tractor can assume the duties of a tank. They are inflexible, arrogant and obsolete.

Conservative does not equal Reactionary. Germany places a great emphasis on modern tactics and its officer corps. To insult that is to insult the institutions that gave us victory. Without that victory, we wouldn't have the luxury of this conversation, as no doubt vindictive Entente powers would have heaped a fate worse than death on Germany.

While sources are sketchy on the final plan, scholars widely agree that Britain and France sought to try much of Germany's political and military establishment, including the Kaiser, as war criminals. They wanted to strip us of territory, limit our military, and force horrendous reparations on us. Is that really what you wanted to happen?

On a side note, armored cars were the precursor to tanks. So yes, actually, a tractor can assume the duties of a tank with preparations.

The people shall be our Generals.
The people shall be our managers.

Working together in collective unity, we shall render such roles redundant.

You declare generals incompetent, but want to put people who have never held order over another in command of divisions? The irony is sickening.

There is a natural order and place for people. Some people are better at some tasks than others, and it is natural that they fill those roles. These roles receive designations and benefits to provide extra motivation for people to achieve them.

Just try having everyone be a manager. Nothing will be accomplished. They are all of equal rank, so none can affect a course of action. There are no consequences for poor performance, as they cannot be fired from a position that doesn't exist!

[kovan09]

Reply on kovan09 regarding military strategy. The French would never breakthrough or advance enough in time from the real world prospective and the game prospective.

In the real world prospective, Germany fields enough of an army on the front to stall any offensive before reaching the German ground. Attacking Alsace Lorraine is pretty much a suicide because its very well fortified (Same as the Maginot line which was flanked before assaulted directly). Per your plan the French find a miraculous hole in the front between the border of Germany and Holland to slip trough which simply would not happen.

From the game prospective, the urban area at antwerpen simply cant be breached if the French don't have some kind of blitzkrieg infantry, which they would not have prior 1943 (Mechanized infantry). The areas which the French would assault are urban and if they would not achieve a miraculous breakthrough as the Germans did with their blitzkrieg, the war would end in a war of attrition where Germany and the 1000 nations of the German empire would simply steamroll them.

If you ever played kaissereich the scenario I have made is pretty realistic, especially in the case if played by a player. If the AI plays it Germany will lose, which is rare in my experience or the French will succeed to annex Flanders, but it will get crushed once the German troops mass.

Ok one response. Would being out numbered 3 to 1 change this? would the french blitz through with tanks, militia and infantry?

[HMAS-Nameless]

Question for The Anarcho-Bolshevik National Liberation Movement (ABNB):
If you win full power would you reform the empire to socialism?
And would you join the syndicalist internationale?

Of course we would! It is a vital step in ours plans to form an international federation of Socialist Bolshevik Republics. The term "Empire" is a dictatoral and imperialistic term at best we shall institute an equal and free Union of Republics.

[HMAS-Nameless]

join the anarcho-bolshevik national liberation (a.b.n.b)
the largest leftist party in realpolitik
we have already overtaken the haxists and alexist gloryists!
Join today and rid the german nation of the capitalist plague!
Freedom and prosperity
power to the people

death to the kaiser

[Karaiskandar]

death to the kaiser

Oh can you write such a thing? It's illegal!
German brothers and sisters, don't fall for the Reds, they're nothing but a bunch of ruthless thugs. They'll bring nothing but poverty, violence and ruin!
Listen to voice of reason, choose wisely, vote LCP!

[Timmie0307]

Originally Posted by Syriana
It was Otto von Bismarck - your beloved Prussian hero - who once said: "Not through speeches will the great questions of the day be decided - that was the great mistake of 1848 and 1849 - but by iron and blood."

The Great Bismarck never meant to lead the German people into a civil war. He meant that the German Empire had to defend itself from outside diplomatics and wars. Peace cannot be enforced without bloodshed. Prosperity and peace have a price to pay. Some people like the Syndicalists do not want peace, but a state in which collectivism is kaiser and individualism and crativity is criminal. we the German people are one unity and still we are creative, but not because we have a government ruled by workers and farmers. NO! People from all classes and jobs rule us because their specialist training and experience provide the right recipe for a government that rules fair. You can contribute by voting PCP.

Who dares to want our beloved Kaiser dead!!! He who is foremost the keeper of Prussian values that Bismarck wanted for Germany, Prussian virtue, Prussian creativity.

VOTE PCP!!! For a Glorious Germany! PCP Peace and Prosperity, Individuality and Creativity instead of Anarchy and Chaos!

[Timmie0307]

There is only one way:

VOTE PCP!!!