Pirate Patrolling

[OrangeYoshi]

You've obviously tested more than I, but from what I've seen, the radius effect of larger fleets is not linear. Adding 2 more ships to a squadron (2 + 2, in Maranho) did not increase the patrol range. I don't see why.

I think that instead of putting in code for each possible number of ships, they just put in thresholds. 1 ship will go this far, 2 will go this far, 5 will go this far, and 8 will go this far. I saw no difference between a 29 ship fleet and a 8 ship fleet, so I think 8 is the upper threshold that was coded for.

It does seem to be the case that combining ships into one Sq does make them more effective than the same #, in the same location, would be, separately.

True.

And on speeds, my big ships are only 1 point slower than in vanilla, it's really the lights which I've nerfed. And that is much more realistic. IRL, frigates were faster, but not that much faster, than SOLs. And under many conditions they weren't faster at all. Further, you have played my mod, it does not take my ships weeks to get from Haiti to Florida, unless there's TI-exploration involved. And that's a very special case.

Well, yeah, I exaggerated a bit.

Add the fact that, in the game, you never have contrary winds, & it is much more realistic.

But there were plenty of cases where ships literally couldn't get from point A to point B; this is not factored in, at all. Nor calms, nor the general vagaries of ocean travel. There was a reason the RN kept 2 squadrons in the Carib area (Windward Is & Jamaica).

But don't the trade winds have some effect on that now? I know they are supposed to effect the speed of ships, I don't know how much though.

It would be better if ships got faster over time, but we cannot do that in EUIII.

True.

Did you find that all ships (I just mean B/L/G/T, not more specific) were all equally effective, except transports? Or were there differences?

I did not test this particular variable, but I'll go do so in a few minutes.

[OrangeYoshi]

Ok, I just tested fleet sizes and ship types.

It looks like I was wrong earlier when I said that transports don't patrol. Each ship type patrols the same amount. 8 transports are just as fine as 8 big ships or 8 galleys. I don't know why I didn't catch that last time.

Now for fleet sizes. (also it is in fact distances that they patrol, and not number of sea zones)

I did tests with each number from 1 to 10.

There is an increase from 1 ships to 2 ships. The next increase is at 6 ships, for an average of one more sea zone patrolled. The next increase is at 8 ships, once again for another sea zone patrolled.

In 1776, 2 ships can patrol 3 sea zones (Baharonas to Cuba), 6 ships can patrol 4 (to the west side of Cuba), and 8 can patrol 5 (to Yucatan).

From that, it looks like 2 ship fleets are the most efficient in terms of patrolling. However, I would still stick with 6 light ships for ease of use in times of crisis or war, plus that extra sea zone that is patrolled coupled with the light ship speed means that you can patrol a really big area of ocean with a single 6 ship fleet.

[George LeS]

Good work.

I'd thought that perhaps ship speeds might make a diff, but they don't.

The 2 vs 6 ship question will be one of strategy. If you're in an area where there's no likely enemy with a large fleet, you may as well use the most efficient deployment. If not, well, concentration has it's uses. Of course, in my own games I've never been one to concentrate in one big fleet, anyway.

I don't think trade winds increase movement costs to weather, just decrease them to leeward.

[OrangeYoshi]

The 2 vs 6 ship question will be one of strategy. If you're in an area where there's no likely enemy with a large fleet, you may as well use the most efficient deployment. If not, well, concentration has it's uses. Of course, in my own games I've never been one to concentrate in one big fleet, anyway.

True. In areas where other nations have colonies, you use 6. In areas where only you have colonies, you use 2. Like I said, there are basic guidelines that you adapt to your situation based on common sense.

I don't think trade winds increase movement costs to weather, just decrease them to leeward.

Well that's a bummer.

[Ex Mudder]

I did tests with each number from 1 to 10.

There is an increase from 1 ships to 2 ships. The next increase is at 6 ships, for an average of one more sea zone patrolled. The next increase is at 8 ships, once again for another sea zone patrolled.

In 1776, 2 ships can patrol 3 sea zones (Baharonas to Cuba), 6 ships can patrol 4 (to the west side of Cuba), and 8 can patrol 5 (to Yucatan).

Did you try this in 1492? I found my fleets of 3 ships (small ships) only reaching 1 sea zone in St. Lawrence, the Carribbean, and West Aztec shoreline. I basically ended up with 1 ship in each sea zone to cover everything.

By contrast, 20 big ships in Portsmouth covered all of England and the Irish coastline. Might have something to do with being in or out of supply distance from my cores.

[OrangeYoshi]

Did you try this in 1492? I found my fleets of 3 ships (small ships) only reaching 1 sea zone in St. Lawrence, the Carribbean, and West Aztec shoreline. I basically ended up with 1 ship in each sea zone to cover everything.

No I didn't, but I'm working under the assumption that the levels for distance increase are the same no matter the date, and it is only the actual patrol distance of each ship that increases over time.

By contrast, 20 big ships in Portsmouth covered all of England and the Irish coastline. Might have something to do with being in or out of supply distance from my cores.

Sigh, there is always something you haven't thought of yet.....

However, the British Isles sea provinces aren't really all that far from Portsmouth, so that may be the key difference between your two experiences.

[George LeS]

Unfortunately, I've found that in my game, in 1510, 6 ships (3 barques + 3 caravels) in Brazil, still will not cover more than a 2 zone radius.

Does having a navigator help at all? Or ideas?

[OrangeYoshi]

Unfortunately, I've found that in my game, in 1510, 6 ships (3 barques + 3 caravels) in Brazil, still will not cover more than a 2 zone radius.

Does having a navigator help at all? Or ideas?

The increases are at 1, 2, 6, and 8 for 1776. Perhaps they are different early in the game, or perhaps your naval tech isn't high enough to reach that next province with only 6 ships?

[Brucesim2003]

A problem I have is that the range of effect for a squadron is not always consistant. Sometimes a province can drop out of range, even if the patroling sqn has not moved or changed size. Then some months later is is in range again. Noticed it especially round the St Lawrence sea area. I have a 9 ship sqn stationed at Unamakik, and Notre Dame Bay drops in and out.

Cheers


Bruce

[OrangeYoshi]

A problem I have is that the range of effect for a squadron is not always consistant. Sometimes a province can drop out of range, even if the patroling sqn has not moved or changed size. Then some months later is is in range again. Noticed it especially round the St Lawrence sea area. I have a 9 ship sqn stationed at Unamakik, and Notre Dame Bay drops in and out.

Cheers


Bruce

This is probably due to shifting trade winds. Check the colonial map mode when this happens, and see where the wind arrows are heading.

[George LeS]

Do trade winds shift? I thought they were stationary. I've found them disappointing. They should be more common, & should include some coastal zones. Eg, there should be a definite East wind (toward the W), through almost the whole of the W Indies. The Windward Islands were not so named by accident. And of course, there should be a decided cost to move against them.

IIRC, it was explicitly said that the patrol range did increase with tech. What's not clear is where the cuts are, or what would be the levels to use at a given date. What I do know is that the POR Brazilian colonies can be covered by 4 ships, 2 each at Maranho & Esp Santu. 6 at Cape St Roque (can't remember the province--the NE-most one) will not do. That's in the early 16th.

[OrangeYoshi]

IIRC, it was explicitly said that the patrol range did increase with tech. What's not clear is where the cuts are, or what would be the levels to use at a given date. What I do know is that the POR Brazilian colonies can be covered by 4 ships, 2 each at Maranho & Esp Santu. 6 at Cape St Roque (can't remember the province--the NE-most one) will not do. That's in the early 16th.

Is that with stationary fleets, or ones also actively patrolling?

[George LeS]

Is that with stationary fleets, or ones also actively patrolling?

Stationary