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I wonder what kind of safeguards there are to prevent the Obscure Documents CB from being exploited. Can large countries not be forced into a PU, for instance? I can just imagine, perhaps, pulling off a victory against France and forcing them into a PU. Hell, why not do that, even, with every OPM? Can you force personal unions with heathens? So many questions....
 
I wonder what kind of safeguards there are to prevent the Obscure Documents CB from being exploited. Can large countries not be forced into a PU, for instance? I can just imagine, perhaps, pulling off a victory against France and forcing them into a PU. Hell, why not do that, even, with every OPM? Can you force personal unions with heathens? So many questions....
Well, I bet PU for large countries is like 250% war score...
 
I wonder what kind of safeguards there are to prevent the Obscure Documents CB from being exploited.

Low chances of that mission success and the fact that the targeted country may get a CB against you and declare a war. That war would call his allies. Because of Alliance CB, allies of those allies might also join in, especialy if some of those allies are your rivals.
And add the high infamy cost in case your spy is detected and you may regret your immoral actions.
 
Low chances of that mission success and the fact that the targeted country may get a CB against you and declare a war. That war would call his allies. Because of Alliance CB, allies of those allies might also join in, especialy if some of those allies are your rivals.
And add the high infamy cost in case your spy is detected and you may regret your immoral actions.

Regret my immoral actions? I think not. Soon, all of Europe will discover that I have claims to their thrones dating back.....since before Europe was even populated!
 
But seriously... a small war can turn into a world war thanks to Alliance CB. This time, not only would allies of allies of allies of allies of the agressor/defender nation mix into the war, but making peace agreements will also become nastier with so many wars around. And you never know when someone else may jump in...

I guess we can say "Bye, Bye" to trustable was plans and welcome the unpredictable war declarations.

(And no, I don't complain: this all actually sounds cool ;) )
 
Low chances of that mission success and the fact that the targeted country may get a CB against you and declare a war. That war would call his allies. Because of Alliance CB, allies of those allies might also join in, especialy if some of those allies are your rivals.
And add the high infamy cost in case your spy is detected and you may regret your immoral actions.

Except, the Casus Belli given against that improves Prestige and revocation of cores, it's a pretty poor Casus Belli by all standards. The infamy if I fail is irrelevant, since if i'm using a tactic of forcing PUs, I don't need to really take much land anyway. If they use the CB to DoW, then think about this. I wanted to get involved in a war anyway, so I know I can beat them and their allies. Hence, I can pretty much get them to concede defeat or white peace out and simply try again.

Whereas, If I succeed, I can then proceed to subjugate an entire nation, irrelevant of size, into a union.

The only ways to balance this appear to be:

-That one particular spy mission has a huge cost, proportional to the power of that nation. (Manufacturing a prominent claim on the Kingdom of France should surely be much harder than a HRE Duchy, at least harder to get one credible enough to warrant this).
-If you fail that mission, there's grave consequences. People now know you'll forge documents on other thrones. This should give infamy & reduce your own heir's credibility (after all, if they'd do this to another throne, what's to say their claim to their own isn't completely manufactured?).
-The mission should probably also take multiple spies aswell as have a lower chance of success It's a big task.

Another option is that nations could then contest this Union in someway via another CB forcing you to end the union. But as it stands, it appears at a glance to be immensly overpowered. Because it invites a whole new playstyle. Doing absolutely nothing except making money, getting into wars via this and forming unions over the major powers. Then it wouldn't be long before you could go berserk, considering every power that could feasibly stop you is either in a PU with you, or has been inherited.
 
But seriously... a small war can turn into a world war thanks to Alliance CB. This time, not only would allies of allies of allies of allies of the agressor/defender nation mix into the war, but making peace agreements will also become nastier with so many wars around. And you never know when someone else may jump in...

I guess we can say "Bye, Bye" to trustable was plans and welcome the unpredictable war declarations.

(And no, I don't complain: this all actually sounds cool ;) )

I don't think so. Just because anyone has a CB doesn't mean they have the where with all to actually use it.

I also think there will be a 'first responder' type arrangement. It shouldn't be a continuous string of CBs, unless the nation was literally allied with the world. I would think you would have to be allied before the war, and realistically, how many allies do AI nations have...?

Even if they have 20 that's the limit for this CB. The allies of the 20 won't get a CB too just because 20 DoWed to defend the ally.

What I'd be concerned with is if the allies of the original DoW will get CBs on the 20 that DoW to protect. That could get a little funky.

And lest we forget... What if my 'friend' is really just my enemy in disguise and I'm actually just fishing for a CB against him...? I'm not exactly running to help him. Unless that other guy is taking the province I want. In which case I can now run in and 'save the day'... Or at least my target... :D

This CB could be the best province condom ever...

T
 
"Great Powers do not have permanent friends or enemies, just permanent interests"

So sure you will rush to the aid of your former enemy ;)
 
Thanks for the guide. You should add the casus belli and new countries as annexes in an updated Heir to the throne manual. Perhaps with some new information to keep the crowd pleased till the expansion's release !
 
This looks great. For most parts at least. :p I have a couple of things that buggers me.. But first I should say that I can't see this leading to more wars, pretty much all those CB:s are already in the game anyway so that shouldn't change..

But as people have said, it looks like the "obscure documents" could be very overpowered if it's not very limited in some ways..

An "Imperialism"... France can have Absolute monarchy very early and that way they have the Imperialism CB on everyone.. And Imperialism is one of the absolute most powerfull of the CB:s... They better have nerfed France bigtime, otherwise they will go WC in every game...

And in "Alliance" it doesn't say anything about first responder as antracer is talking about. I doubt that the game can see the difference.. That would make near world wars possible, lets see how many nations will go for them. Could be interresting and could be very chaothic. :D
 
the AI isn't quite effective to enact this decision , and with the new CB's system you'll have a harder time having 100 monthly income , not counting you'll need a lucky leader to have the 8 admin :D
 
And in "Alliance" it doesn't say anything about first responder as antracer is talking about. I doubt that the game can see the difference.. That would make near world wars possible, lets see how many nations will go for them. Could be interresting and could be very chaothic. :D

What I mean is I don't believe it will be like a Pyramid Scheme... It will be limited to allies of the first DoWee, not every country that joins. Although that would make for one hell of a battle royal...

I just figure if A DoWs B, then any allies of B will get the CB, but any allies of C,D,E,F and G who used the CB to DoW would not...

I admit it's an edumacated guess, but the line does have to be drawn somewhere I would think or the whole world would be given CBs on day two...

T
 
I wonder what kind of safeguards there are to prevent the Obscure Documents CB from being exploited. Can large countries not be forced into a PU, for instance? I can just imagine, perhaps, pulling off a victory against France and forcing them into a PU. Hell, why not do that, even, with every OPM? Can you force personal unions with heathens? So many questions....

This. I'm looking forward to exploit it. ^^
 
"Obscure Documents" forcing a PU actually sounds like a good alternative to vassalizing. It may take longer to inherit them then it does to diplo-annex, but when you do inherit you get insta-cores on their whole country. Plus, no centralization hit!

Also, I imagine that it's probably like force-vassalizing, trying to war-force a Personal Union will probably top 100% war score after five or six provinces, making it impossible to Force Union majors.