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Europa Universalis III 46143 EU3 - After Action Reports (AAR)
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I started a game as England in IN. I have no particular desire to battle France on the continent (there is a thread on that topic somewhere, but no thread on a more Island based strategy) I have several thoughts - the basic strategy absent a serious early effort to expand the foothold on the continent seems to be trade plus colonization - but still some questions:

(1) Annexing Scotland as a prelude to forming GB has the unfortunate effect of slowing down research (adding several poor, non-core, provinces really hurts there - no increase in income to speak of, but higher research costs). I tried vassalizing them, but they DOWed on me soon after! I assume that was mission related (I haven't checked yet), but the question is, how to deal with Scotland?

(1b) Or are the advantages of forming the UK enough to justify the slower research?

(2) To pursue the above strategy, it seems to me the best bet is the good old boring (a) focus trade till level 7, (b) get QFTNW, switch idea to QFTNW, taking the stability hit, (c) get the Azores (obviously hoping Portugal doesn't get the mission), then (d) focus on government for your second idea and naval for colonization range while waiting 50 years for the core on the Azores, (e) get one of the trade ideas for your second idea, and so on. Is that basically correct or am I missing something?

(3) France. (a) what about the 3 provinces on the continent? They really aren't defendable absent a really aggressive military strategy. France tends to DOW every 5 years or so. They seem to offer white peaces pretty readily, but the wars are still a bit of a PITA. Yet I don't want to just give the provinces to France, as they are a long term enemy and I don't want to help them. Maybe give Calais to Burgundy and the other two to Brittany? If I keep the provinces, someone suggested a "raiding" strategy to keep France weak. What are people's thoughts on these issues?

(4) Ireland - is there really much point to conquering Ireland? Obviously not without the mission. With the mission, there are cores in the offing, very tempting. But again we're talking 4 very poor provinces. Thoughts?
 
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lmaggitti said:
(1) Annexing Scotland as a prelude to forming GB has the unfortunate effect of slowing down research (adding several poor, non-core, provinces really hurts there - no increase in income to speak of, but higher research costs). I tried vassalizing them, but they DOWed on me soon after! I assume that was mission related (I haven't checked yet), but the question is, how to deal with Scotland?

(1b) Or are the advantages of forming the UK enough to justify the slower research?
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Your research isn't that much slower as you were already over 8 provinces. Those will core in 50 years, give you +2 cent., and get your tech speed back.
(2) To pursue the above strategy, it seems to me the best bet is the good old boring (a) focus trade till level 7, (b) get QFTNW, switch idea to QFTNW, taking the stability hit, (c) get the Azores (obviously hoping Portugal doesn't get the mission), then (d) focus on government for your second idea and naval for colonization range while waiting 50 years for the core on the Azores, (e) get one of the trade ideas for your second idea, and so on. Is that basically correct or am I missing something?
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The best way is to explore Greenland and then down the coast of America, and then just go steal the native's provinces leaving them with one each, and then you take all their ducats. You repeat this every 5 years until they are out of money, then you annex them. 50 years after the first invasion, you can reach the entire USA coast, Mexico, and all of the Caribbean. If you do this to Mexico as well, you can reach and colonize Oregon 70 years into the game.

(3) France. (a) what about the 3 provinces on the continent? They really aren't defendable absent a really aggressive military strategy. France tends to DOW every 5 years or so. They seem to offer white peaces pretty readily, but the wars are still a bit of a PITA. Yet I don't want to just give the provinces to France, as they are a long term enemy and I don't want to help them. Maybe give Calais to Burgundy and the other two to Brittany? If I keep the provinces, someone suggested a "raiding" strategy to keep France weak. What are people's thoughts on these issues?
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Sell the bottom two to France, and Calais to Burgundy as soon as the game starts.

(4) Ireland - is there really much point to conquering Ireland? Obviously not without the mission. With the mission, there are cores in the offing, very tempting. But again we're talking 4 very poor provinces. Thoughts?
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It is very worthwhile to take them. You are going to have so many provinces that your tech speed will be horrible anyway after your colonize, that taking those could only really help.
 
lmaggitti said:
(1) Annexing Scotland as a prelude to forming GB has the unfortunate effect of slowing down research (adding several poor, non-core, provinces really hurts there - no increase in income to speak of, but higher research costs). I tried vassalizing them, but they DOWed on me soon after! I assume that was mission related (I haven't checked yet), but the question is, how to deal with Scotland?
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Wait until you get the "Conquer Scotland" (not the vassalise Scotland) mission - it will give you cores in all of Scotland for free and make forming GB a lot faster.
 
lmaggitti said:
Thanks. Preconditions for that mission? So far all I've gotten are the vassalize Scotland and conquer Ireland missions.
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There are no preconditions. You can get it immediately as soon as the game starts. If you don't though, try DOW'ing Scotland and then cancelling your current mission. When you are at war with Scotland, that mission has a higher chance of becoming your new one.

People have formed GB by 1402 this way.
 
OrangeYoshi said:
The best way is to explore Greenland and then down the coast of America, and then just go steal the native's provinces leaving them with one each, and then you take all their ducats. You repeat this every 5 years until they are out of money, then you annex them. 50 years after the first invasion, you can reach the entire USA coast, Mexico, and all of the Caribbean. If you do this to Mexico as well, you can reach and colonize Oregon 70 years into the game.
Click to expand...


Why Greenland instead of the Azores? You can't get it any sooner than the Azores, it only gives you access to NA, and you still have to wait 50 years for the core (to colonize NA, that is; obviously there is nothing stoping you from taking the native provinces). Only advantage I guess is that it's out of the way and thus less of a target. But is that enough of a reason to go that route?

Of course, it's also less of a race if you go for Greenland - no one will beat you there. But I assume you're going to want to move as quickly as possible anyway. Why not the Azores?
 
lmaggitti said:
Why Greenland instead of the Azores? You can't get it any sooner than the Azores, it only gives you access to NA, and you still have to wait 50 years for the core (to colonize NA, that is; obviously there is nothing stoping you from taking the native provinces). Only advantage I guess is that it's out of the way and thus less of a target. But is that enough of a reason to go that route?

Of course, it's also less of a race if you go for Greenland - no one will beat you there. But I assume you're going to want to move as quickly as possible anyway. Why not the Azores?
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Actually colonizing Greenland is irrelevant except for the fact that you will have a port for your ships that much closer to the natives. I was just giving the route that you should go so you can go annex the natives. Once you own Pensacola, you can colonize anything in that area that you want to.
 
OrangeYoshi said:
Actually colonizing Greenland is irrelevant except for the fact that you will have a port for your ships that much closer to the natives. I was just giving the route that you should go so you can go annex the natives. Once you own Pensacola, you can colonize anything in that area that you want to.
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Thanks. So then I guess your point is that waiting a couple of more years to get the core from Pensacola (as opposed to Greenland or the Azores - since it will take a couple of years of exploration before you can take Pensacola) is no big deal - especially since Pensacola gives you access to so much more. Of course you still should beeline to trade 7. I'm learning that that seems to be the consensus among the experienced players here, and I guess it makes sense.
 
lmaggitti said:
Thanks. So then I guess your point is that waiting a couple of more years to get the core from Pensacola (as opposed to Greenland or the Azores - since it will take a couple of years of exploration before you can take Pensacola) is no big deal - especially since Pensacola gives you access to so much more. Of course you still should beeline to trade 7. I'm learning that that seems to be the consensus among the experienced players here, and I guess it makes sense.
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You can actually annex Pensacola within a year of finding Greenland. You need two teams of galleys to explore. You send out one, discover two or three provinces, send them back to Greenland, switch the explorer to the other fleet, then so the same with that fleet.

Then you just need to ship 6k cav to America, and you are all set. I got Pensacola to core in 1502.

And yes, beeline for trade 7.
 
OrangeYoshi said:
You can actually annex Pensacola within a year of finding Greenland. You need two teams of galleys to explore. You send out one, discover two or three provinces, send them back to Greenland, switch the explorer to the other fleet, then so the same with that fleet.

Then you just need to ship 6k cav to America, and you are all set. I got Pensacola to core in 1502.

And yes, beeline for trade 7.
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Thanks. Actually, I have been using all of those tactics, just not putting them altogether in a concerted effort to get that core ASAP.

That said, why so "late" as 1502? :) Why not (roughly) 1485? Or thereabouts? I realize England is going to be slower to trade level 7 than (say) Portugal or a OPM that gets a lot of trade income, but still trade level 7 by (roughly) 1433 seems quite doable.
 
Sylon said:
Note that forming Great Britain gives you cores on Ireland, so if you don't wish to suffer the stab hits and BB from eating them, you could wait until you become Great Britain before moving against them.

Also, if you decide to play a little ahistorically, England has a very interesting mission to occupy Paris which gives them cores on the entirety of Northern and Central France. This event only fires if you are at war with them.
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Wow, I did not know that. It certainly does open up a radically different, albeit more challenging, way to play England. And maybe more fun - I tend to get bored going the trade/colonizing route. Of course the key would be alliances with Burgundy and probably Castille. I guess you would want to sell Calais to Burgundy first thing?

And I'm not sure it's that ahistorical. Also, the raiding strategy discussed in another thread (go around looting provinces to keep France weak) is very historically accurate.
 
lmaggitti said:
Thanks. Actually, I have been using all of those tactics, just not putting them altogether in a concerted effort to get that core ASAP.

That said, why so "late" as 1502? :) Why not (roughly) 1485? Or thereabouts? I realize England is going to be slower to trade level 7 than (say) Portugal or a OPM that gets a lot of trade income, but still trade level 7 by (roughly) 1433 seems quite doable.
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The historical date for trade 7 is 1440, so there isn't really a way to get it before then as GB. It then takes about 2 years total to reach the natives, and then I didn't annex them immediately, I walked around a lot before I got them.

Also, I was minting a lot, so I wasn't putting everything in trade.
 
Wow, I'm really torn now - back to my Castille/Spain game, back to my France prior to the edict of Nantes mistake, England as colonialist/trader. England as conquerer of France, Mecklenburg, or Novograd. Decisions, decisions.

I'm starting to think about England as conquerer. I'm assuming that a few years of building up a war chest/maybe taking out Scotland, should preceed even an attempt to wrest some provinces from Burgundy? Or is it realistic to attempt that from the start?

Or I could just try England 1420, though that seems almost like cheating.
 
lmaggitti said:
Wow, I'm really torn now - back to my Castille/Spain game, back to my France prior to the edict of Nantes mistake, England as colonialist/trader. England as conquerer of France, Mecklenburg, or Novograd. Decisions, decisions.

I'm starting to think about England as conquerer. I'm assuming that a few years of building up a war chest/maybe taking out Scotland, should preceed even an attempt to wrest some provinces from Burgundy? Or is it realistic to attempt that from the start?

Or I could just try England 1420, though that seems almost like cheating.
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this is a war game so you will eventually get to fight them all.

take Scotland for manpower if nothing else, wait for Ireland to get to just one country

fight France or take Aragon or Portugal first

what's exciting about colonization?
 
moonsik said:
this is a war game so you will eventually get to fight them all.

take Scotland for manpower if nothing else, wait for Ireland to get to just one country

fight France or take Aragon or Portugal first

what's exciting about colonization?
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Some of us find colonization to be quite fun, thank you very much! :mad:

Besides, EUIII is only tangentially a "war" game. It's more of an expansion game. The difference is subtle, but it is there.
 
truth is life said:
Some of us find colonization to be quite fun, thank you very much! :mad:

Besides, EUIII is only tangentially a "war" game. It's more of an expansion game. The difference is subtle, but it is there.
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more exciting than fighting with your provinces at stake? really? :confused:

you expand mostly through conquest. I think you want to conquer the whole world, don't you?

because you want to beat the game, the AI?
 
I played my first English game (and still going) and went for a different strategy at the start. In a very strange occurance Scotland managed to grab 1 half of Iceland from Norway so when I DoW Scotland I grabbed Iceland to start off with my colonizing route. France kept DoW me until I had to cede the provinces that they wanted but I grabbed both Anterwerpen and Vlaaderdeen so I could trade and get heaps of money (1100 size in the CoT :D).

I find waiting until other countries such as Castille and France to colonize then taking their colonies is a good strategy since you save money and colonists, especially if they're cities.


Also I think that different England strategies will exist (and same goes for any country) depending on how Europe is forming. For me Portugal is down to 1 province, Aragon is still alive so no Spain, and Naples moved into Germany and grabbed half of it (including Austria). France inherited Hungary and so placed 60k of troops there leaving about 10k in France itself. Taking advantage of this is DoW and France lost all of its colonies and I released a bunch of vassals so they were split in half. France was a joke after that ;)

Also go after Songhai in Africa since they have huge amounts of money from their 3(?) gold mines
 
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