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more exciting than fighting with your provinces at stake? really? :confused:
Um, yes?

you expand mostly through conquest. I think you want to conquer the whole world, don't you?

because you want to beat the game, the AI?

No, I don't care about beating the AI--they're weak and simple--I prefer to play plausibly, to role-play. So, sometimes I conquer and sometimes I colonize. Depends on country. And I find it quite fun to take over the whole American continent with Spain or England (though I've never done it yet), yet not go on to take over the whole world.

Actually, I find the most fun from building up my territories without doing much expansion at all, which is why I like Vicky so much :p
 
In IN, Burgundy almost always gets into an early fight they can't win with HRE Bohemia. If you warn them right at the start you'll create a good opportunity.

LOL, you weren't kidding. :rofl: I got Vlanderen and Antwerpen by Jan 29, 1401. Then when France attacked me Scotland insulted me, giving me a CB. I DOWed Scotland, ignored the French, canceled my mission, got the conquer Scotland mission. While I was fighting Scotland, France offer a white peace which I took. I then won the war with Scotland (1404), and took everything I could - including Artois from Burgundy, who intervened ineffectively on Scotland's behalf. Five more years and I will take Scotland's last province and form GB.

Now, there are flies in the ointment. I made a premature alliance with Castille; they were no help versus France, and stabbed me in the back when I DOWed Scotland. No big deal, but no more alliance and it hurt our relations a lot. And of course my BBs are a little high, and taking Antwerpen will hurt my trade (but it was too good to pass up, especially since the alternative peace deal with Burgundy would have given me an additional border with France).

And really I don't see how I'm going to beat France - they are just much richer with more manpower. Unless I can re-institute the Castillian alliance somehow.

But one NOOB question - the raiding strategy - even apart from the fact that there are a ton of large French armies wandering around making things difficult, I only get the scorch option in my own territory. How to I raid enemy territory?
 
So FWIW, it's around 1421 now, and as much fun as I'm having I am getting a tad discouraged. GB has been formed. One long war with France; they kicked my butt, but I waited them out for an almost white peace (I gave them 25 ducets). And I'm allied with Spain again. But really it looks grim. France took several provinces from Burgundy, so there is no longer a buffer between France and my Calais/low country provinces. And they simply can support a much bigger army. So the next war will be like the last ... they will take my provinces, I will raid (yeah, I figured out how to do that), and maybe I will eventually be able to exhuast them to the point where I get a decent peace. But I still can't see how that's going to get any better, how I can ever beat them. Maybe if Spain goes all out against them ... in the mean time though, I'm sort of stagnating. I do have a big war chest, but if I spend it on troops to try to match France the maintenance will kill me.

Edit - 1423 actually. Sure enough, France declared again, right as the truce expired. But at least Castile honored the alliance. No land border, but I think they have access through Navarre. I am also a little stronger than last war. We'll see, if this goes poorly I think I may try another nation or the colonizer/trade GB.

Second edit - hmm, maybe I suck, or maybe I give up too early, but it's time to put this one aside for a bit. Fun try, though. Heh, 1420 I guess just for kicks, then maybe a more "peaceful" try.
 
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Some of us find colonization to be quite fun, thank you very much! :mad:

It's ok if you like it, but from a purely game-theoretical perspective, NOT colonizing is definitely the dominant strategy. When I compare colonization to European (or even Middle Eastern) conquests, I see no advantages at all.

But maybe this discussion belongs to another topic.
 
I started a game as England in IN. I have no particular desire to battle France on the continent (there is a thread on that topic somewhere, but no thread on a more Island based strategy) I have several thoughts - the basic strategy absent a serious early effort to expand the foothold on the continent seems to be trade plus colonization - but still some questions:

(1) Annexing Scotland as a prelude to forming GB has the unfortunate effect of slowing down research (adding several poor, non-core, provinces really hurts there - no increase in income to speak of, but higher research costs). I tried vassalizing them, but they DOWed on me soon after! I assume that was mission related (I haven't checked yet), but the question is, how to deal with Scotland?

(1b) Or are the advantages of forming the UK enough to justify the slower research?

(2) To pursue the above strategy, it seems to me the best bet is the good old boring (a) focus trade till level 7, (b) get QFTNW, switch idea to QFTNW, taking the stability hit, (c) get the Azores (obviously hoping Portugal doesn't get the mission), then (d) focus on government for your second idea and naval for colonization range while waiting 50 years for the core on the Azores, (e) get one of the trade ideas for your second idea, and so on. Is that basically correct or am I missing something?

(3) France. (a) what about the 3 provinces on the continent? They really aren't defendable absent a really aggressive military strategy. France tends to DOW every 5 years or so. They seem to offer white peaces pretty readily, but the wars are still a bit of a PITA. Yet I don't want to just give the provinces to France, as they are a long term enemy and I don't want to help them. Maybe give Calais to Burgundy and the other two to Brittany? If I keep the provinces, someone suggested a "raiding" strategy to keep France weak. What are people's thoughts on these issues?

(4) Ireland - is there really much point to conquering Ireland? Obviously not without the mission. With the mission, there are cores in the offing, very tempting. But again we're talking 4 very poor provinces. Thoughts?

1.) I dont claim to be an absolute expert on the issue, so if im mistaken someone correct me, but heres how i see it: In the early game smaller u are (less provinces u own) faster u research. Every province u conquer after will only slow ur res. down, adding some other penalties like different culture in prov and stuff. The difference between 1/2/3 and 5/6/7-10 provinces in the 1400-1500 is rather large, but after ur empire grows beyond certain point, every province u add will increase res. by something like 0.5% - theres the actual math table somewhere if u want exact numbers, browse FAQ or w/e. Bottom line is, grow expand, take EVERY single province early on as u possibly can, later on with some buildings and techs, as well as population growth, every province, even with 2 base tax will be well worth res. penalties, ull have bugger army support, buildings will add tax, population growth, and more trade as well as base production. In the 1600s no matter how many provinces u have, i guarantee that ull be having easy time with money and u should completely catch up with everyone else tech wise.

1b.) 1.) pretty much covers it, but to be exact, YES imo, its worth it.

2.) The strategy u described might work on paper, but in reality it might prove to be very difficult. First, 50 years is alot, so from the point u colonize Azores till the moment u can continue colonizing the rest of the Americas ull waste alot of time doing, well, nothing. If ure the kind of player that likes to oversee trading and do nothing for 50 years, this might not seem like much of a problem, but have one thing in mind: France will attack u, and keep attacking you. Even if u get rid of those provinces with French cores, and dont meddle with them, they will eventually make entire France blue, theyll take every single lowland province (Holland etc.) half of the German minores, and quite possibly entire Spain eventually. After theyre done with that, its just a matter of time till they hit u, since ull be the only rival in the area, and having a huge overseas empire might prove too much of a logistical task. If u let Frenchies build fleet, ull have to concentrate all your ships somewhere at one point to take them out, which will spawn loads of pirates everywhere, which is bad idea all in all. On top of that, i guarantee, Frenchies will still hit u before u get core in Azores, unless u protect the entire route, or keep them blockaded.

3.) Even tho most of the people argue for selling those 3 provinces to Fra or Bur or w/e str8 from the beginning, i say dont do it. If u wanna dominate the Europe, so u can colonize properly, heres what u should do: Keep those provinces, dont give anything to anyone. Shoot for 4 gov right away, and keep the idea point open, or take w/e u want if u dont mind 3 stab hit for switching idea later. After 4 gov, go for 9 navy, with minor focus on 7 trade. 9 navy is higher priority, but if u can same somehow manage 7 trade same time its nice. During this time, France will, like u said, attack u every 5 years or so. Let them. Even if they occupy all 3 provinces, which is somewhat hard since Calais is shielded by Bur, it will takes YEARS for them to increase ur WE to the point where it will hurt u. First time they do attack u tho, it is VERY likely that Scots will join in with them. So, the only thing army wise u need for the first 50 years or so is basically 10 X Cav, this should be more than enough to destroy the Scottish army after like 2-3 ping pong battles, after that, simply divide them into 1-2 units armies and siege whole Scotland. After u capture every single city they own, which should take more than a year or 2, ull actually have a positive war score with France, and that gives u more options. What i do is just take as much of Scotland as i can in a separate peace, and then sighn a white peace with BBB. Now my argument for doing business like this is simple: France will attack u, and it will keep attacking u, so u might as well make most of this situation. Every time they attack someone else, like Bur, or minors, they will get WE. If ure in a continuous war, ur WE will drop only based on ur leader stats (unless im mistaken) which is like -0.08 WE each month (if ur king has good stats)- while during the peace its about doubled.

Soooo, if u keep Frenchies in war, for as long as u can, say 20 years, and having in mind that they will attack other countries meanwhile, you might easily end up with them having 20+ WE that wont drop at all. Thats great, cuz it will spawn crap loads of rebels all over the place, and will slow down their expansion ALOT. Then, all u have to do is for them to go to war with Bur, land 20k infantry army in Normandy, start taking cities which will build up ur war score, and voila, ull take them piece by piece. If u dont like to do this like this, the hard way, theres another way. Get 9 navy ASAP, and simply blockade them. This will surely destroy them in 50 years. Their income will be crippled, their WE will hit the sky, and wont drop at all, and u can bet that they will start falling behind in techs. After u hit 9 navy go for 11 land, get those gallog-whatever infantry with alot of good stats, make 20k inf stack, land, and u can assault any lvl 1 or 2 fort in 2-3 days.

4.) Its pretty much the same as 1.) and 1b.). The only time when i wouldnt take Ireland is if were a European country, so i couldnt be bothered to land 10k troops every time those pesky rebels pop up. Apart from that, if ure not lazy like me TAKE IT ALL :D
 
Soooo, if u keep Frenchies in war, for as long as u can, say 20 years, and having in mind that they will attack other countries meanwhile, you might easily end up with them having 20+ WE that wont drop at all. Thats great, cuz it will spawn crap loads of rebels all over the place, and will slow down their expansion ALOT. Then, all u have to do is for them to go to war with Bur, land 20k infantry army in Normandy, start taking cities which will build up ur war score, and voila, ull take them piece by piece. If u dont like to do this like this, the hard way, theres another way. Get 9 navy ASAP, and simply blockade them. This will surely destroy them in 50 years. Their income will be crippled, their WE will hit the sky, and wont drop at all, and u can bet that they will start falling behind in techs. After u hit 9 navy go for 11 land, get those gallog-whatever infantry with alot of good stats, make 20k inf stack, land, and u can assault any lvl 1 or 2 fort in 2-3 days.

I like this, I really do, and can see how it would work better than what I tried last night (taking those provinces from Burgundy just gave the French more targets, higher war score for them, higher WE for me). I could see the boredom factor that you refer to applying here also, but the real question is: would it work?

In that vein, here is my question: how do you keep their WE up before blockades? Raiding? That can be a challenge - I kept getting my little raiding armies stomped. And getting navy to 9 (and then land to 11, assuming trade 7 in between) will take a long time. Far, far more than 20 years. Okay, fine, it WAS the era of the 100 years war, but still.

Or I guess just take the white peaces they offer for the first couple of wars, and then use this strategy when you get naval 9, or at least closer to it? Edit: okay, reading your post again, this actually seems to be more or less what you are suggesting. Maybe I'll give it a try.
 
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Maybe I'll give it a try.


Okay, I did. Too soon to tell how it's going - a LONG way to naval 9. :( But otherwise ... 1413, two wars with France, first a WP, the second I gave them some ducets (I probably could have waited them out for a WP but I needed peace to form GB). But I did form GB, trade is booming, and otherwise things are fine.

Interstingly enough, France hasn't gone to war with anyone else. Though that has its advantages, as they haven't expanded. As I suspected, without blockades and with them fighting only me, the best I can do with a raiding strategy is keep their WE around 3.5, not good enough. So I guess it's a waiting game till I get to naval 9 and blockades; I can see clearly why this will be devestating for France. Obviously this strategy will also set my colonization back a few decades.

Edit - it is 1430, 2 or three or 4 more wars with France, I lost count. I keep getting WPs. Trashed their navy recently as well. Quiet otherwise; I took one of the Irish OPMs, though it cost me a WP war with Burgundy which meant no more military access. Research proceeds apace; 7 naval and 5 trade. France still hasn't expanded, except for one diplo-annex (Bourbon). They went to war with Burgundy once but got nothing. Really this probably is the biggest sign that the strategy is working - France is stymied even before I can do significant damage. Oh, and I built a COT in London - really almost mandatory for England I would think. And finally I have good relatios with Castille including a RM. No alliance yet; I'm waiting until I can do some real damage to France, then I'll ally with Castille (or likely Spain by then).

But now real life beckons. And this isn't the AAR forum anyway, soooo ...
 
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Okay, this game is like crack. One last comment as the program I am working on remotely (ARCMap if anyone cares) slowly finishes loading.

I'm now convinced that DanubianCossak's advice vis a vis keeping England's continental possessions absolutely correct, even if you have no intention of significant expansion of that foothold. You need to play a long game, but England is very capable of playing a huge spoiler role against France. A somewhat historically accurate one, as well, even if the details differ. Though in the game you should be able to do even better than historically, not just preventing the BBB (which came close to happening historically, and England had a large role in keeping it from happening), but keeping France from even fully establish itself within the "modern" borders.
 
Yup, i told u it works. Its been a while since i played vanilla version of the game, but yeh, i still remember at least a dozen ways in which u can dismantle BBB even with smaller countries. And trust me, most of the strategies ull find on forum are only accurate to some point, if u play them a few times ull find out MANY ways to improve them.

Right now im playing my own modded version of EU3, where i changed income of almost every single province in Europe and Arab world to balance out city population and base tax, as well as tweaking trade - the strategy i told u about works even better, cuz im my version tech research speed is way more better - u the pdont have to sit first 200 years doing nothing just to stay in the race. Altho im getting seriously pissed at the fact that i cant seem to turn pirates off, which pretty much renders almost every single colonial game useless...
 
I'm on the verge of naval 9 now (should get it 1447 or 1448). I actually already have trade 7 & QFTNW, as I diverted a little research that way, though I haven't gotten to Pensacola yet. My only regret is not being a bit more aggressive in the 1440s - France has "wised up," stopped attacking me, and is starting to dismember Burgundy. I kind of wish I didn't WP France last war, and/or that I had finally taken a couple of provinces from the carcass of Burgundy, and/or that I had taken Finestre (sp?) from Brittany in one of our many wars. But none of that matters; France is already way behind, and they will not survive our next war intact once I get blockade. :)
 
Oh yeh, one thing that i have completely forgotten. Theres another excellent strategy u can use. Deny Frenchies their expansion meat. Land in Brittany and vassalise them from the second u start game. U wont get any alliance war this way, and ull deny French some expansion room.

This gives u 2 options and alot of tactical room:

U can either vasslise + ally Brittany, or only ally them. Vas+ally = they wont declare war on u ever + every time France jumps u, theyll come to ur aid. Only vas them = ull have free land to retreat to on European soil, where French cannot come, which gives u so many tactical options that its pretty much equal to cheating. Each option has pro and con. First one is that they wont declare war on u, which is cool, but theyll also get occupied by french, giving them more war score against u, but then again, who cares about that right? Ull get a while peace every 5-10 years anyway. And second options pro is that u can retreat ur cavalry armies in Brittany and jump French wherever u like in the north, whenever u prefer, BUT Brittany will attack u almost every time France does if u only vassalise them without ally. I always go for vass+ally, but the choice is urs.

Edit - this goes for the following: Brittany, Aragon (have to wait for Cas to take them apart somewhat), Savoie, Lorraine, Burgundy, Holland, Brabant etc etc etc... Vassals are the best thing in EU3 for sure, if u ally with them u get free AI controlled armies every time France attacks u, so u see...
 
but theyll also get occupied by french, giving them more war score against u, but then again, who cares about that right? Ull get a while peace every 5-10 years anyway.

Hmm, that wasn't my (limited) experience when I took 4 provinces from Burgundy early - France no longer offered me WP when they had 7, rather than 3, of my provinces in their possession. It also hurt my WE to some extent, though I don't recall if it was to the point of being a problem. Obviously that second problem isn't an issue when the provinces belong to a vassal.
 
I wouldnt take any provinces myself, only vassalise other countries. Now if u wanna have burgundy as ur guy, u might have to take some provs to make them small enough so u can vassalise, but remember to give those provs right back to them - u can always annex them later if u prefer.

As for French holding more than 3 of ur provinces, well ure thats why ure always trying to keep as few provs on European mainland as u can in the early game, but that doesnt mean giving those 3 u start with to other guys, after all u have cores them.

The whole issue in this game of u as Brit VS French is as following: For u to beat them u have to siege them. For u to siege them u have to destroy their armies. This sounds simple enough, but theres just a few tiny problems:

1st in vanilla game attrition is retarded and it will rape ur u, so u can forget about marching 60 division army in 1400s which is what u need to beat the French.

and 2nd while Latin tech/culture group is vastly superior to others in almost every way, theres just one HUGE problem they will face early on. As u prolly know Cavalry is vastly superior shock wise in the beginning, BUT only vs latin infantry, men at arms and longbowmen. So in theory u ONLY need big enough pure Cav army and u can destroy French doom armies on the paper.

BUT in practice attrition and their sheer size (2 or 3 40+ divions armies) combined with attrition will render this almost impossible - yes u might destroy 1 or 2 of their stacks, but in doing so ull also lose 3/4 of ur army = 20+ WE = NOT good when ure island based nation.

Once u get those 11 land infantry - gall-w/e its called things start to change drastically. Cav will still do alot of damage but it will also start dieing at insane rate, while by the time u hit lvl 18 land and get Maurician inf. things go almost 99% against Cav. Make sure ure the first guy to get them, delete ALL ur Cav stacks and make as many infs as u can with like 6-8 Cav as support, land a doom stack of 40-60 like this (i.e. 52 inf + 8 cav) in France and theyre done, ull destroy every single army they have. If u can survive the attrition problem that is. Thats why i have completely moded this away. I hate it, theres nothing like being able to march ur own doom armies into France :D hehe
 
1458 now, and I'm having somewhat renewed frustrations, as blockade isn't enough by itself to drive up war exhaustion given fairly "smart" play (by accident or design) by AI France; basically they are avoiding 2 front wars. I'm still doing great overall, but still can't challenge France on the continent despite their much slower than normal expansion. Interestingly, Burgundy recovered nicely during France's latest long war with me and now may be a decent counterweight to France (though not an ally for me; my relations with Burgundy are poor, not to mention their penchant for German wars).

I've considered your land level 11/super infantry stack idea, but a one-on-one continental war with France would still seem problematic given their large leads in manpower and force limits. It's real easy for England to lose whole armies in France. Not to mention attrition concerns, which I haven't modded out.

I'm also torn regarding switching to Empire - that morale boost is mighty nice, but at a significant cost in my force limits. I'm not near my force limit now, but if I challenge France on the continent I'll need to be.

So ... I foresee many future long wars with France resulting in a WP or small cash payment. Not the worst thing in the world, as my overall situation is improving gradually relative to France (and everyone else) and should continue to do so. But it is a slow process. I suppose if nothing else the reformation will hit them a bit harder than it will hit me (I assume - is that true? It was historically, though England obviously took their lumps as well. I've experienced the process as France in the game and it isn't pretty).

I guess it's also time to nurture my relationship with Castille. We have actually been allied 3 times; once they failed to come to my aid when I attacked one of the Irish OPMs; once they failed to come to my aid when Brittany attacked me; the third time I'm not sure what happened but I think I missed a CTA. They haven't been of any help yet in my wars with France, though they did help out in my one defensive war against Burgundy.

Having fun, though. By the time I am done with this I think I may even have enough knowledge to update the English strategy page on the wiki, which currently is accurate for vanilla only, not IN.
 
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I suppose another strategy would be to start making inroads into Germany, for manpower in the short run, and of course for revenue in the long run once I get cores. Disadvantages: BBs may be high, possible conflict with Burgundy, and of course the fact that in IN especially it's hard to just pick off one or two provinces; you often end up fighting several nations at once. Obviously the strategy is more viable with a weak Emperor.

Another unrelated question, not specific to England. Given that I will (I assume - most likely) be switching to protestant at some point, should I convert the native Americans now to Catholic? I've seen advice to the contrary, but I can see advantages to doing it now.
 
Another unrelated question, not specific to England. Given that I will (I assume - most likely) be switching to protestant at some point, should I convert the native Americans now to Catholic? I've seen advice to the contrary, but I can see advantages to doing it now.

Depends on what year it is now.. The reformation starts around 1500. If its currently 1490 in your game, converting them now isn't really worth it I think. If its 1440, by all means make the Aztecs Catholic.
 
Thanks. Another strategy for causing war exhaustion occured to me, though it to some extent exploits weaknesses in the AI (its propensity to react to threats by moving troops to counter them - not a bad thing in itself, but exploitable). Using your navy and military access from border countries, execute a series of feints to force the AI to march and countermarch in reaction (thus causing attrition and running up his war exhaustion score).

Or am I thinking too small? People talk about how bad the AI is in land wars, and I see the truth of this, but I still have a hard time seeing how to win an offensive war, especially against an overseas foe of roughly equal technology, when heavily outnumbered (a defensive war (assuming some room to retreat) is another matter and can be almost trivially easy to win even when significantly outnumbered).
 
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Just for the record, I've figured out a lot of stuff since my last post, including how to beat France in a ground war on their turf despite being badly outnumbered, and how to use the war exhaustion tactic to its full extent. France still has a lot of life in it, but Normandy is independant (as a result of the last war) and this war they are losing at least one province to me (actually, I could have gotten 2 last war but decided to force them to release Normandy instead, which hurt them badly and ended up giving me a base to attack them from). Oh, Brittany is my vassal and Antwerpen has been taken by me from Burgundy. Fun times.
 
@Imaggitti How did you do it? I kept getting into war with France and their ally Scotland until I had Scots on their capital province only. This happened Basically after the second war, since the Portugese interfered and occupied two provinces (West Islands(?) and Highlands). Then I try to declare III war on them, but it turns out they are French vasals so I had to DOW France. I already sacrificed both Gascoigne and Sant(whatever) in the first two wars, and France refuses to hand over the remaining British province in their hands. Calais I held, until the Provence(?!?) occupied it. On the upside I have entire Ireland trough diploannex. Third war finished through white peace.

Somewhere between the third and fourth war with France, France annexed remnants of Scotland and the fourth war turned out to be epic war of some 90 years. I tried raiding Channel and Biscay coast with small stacks retreating to ships whenever monstrous French stacks of 20k troops started marching to the province. I managed to get them to WE of 11, but not more. I hold Scotland capital, and war score is only 2%. Thats when stopped actively pursuing war, and turned to colonisation as I got Quest for New world Idea.

Now it is 1530s, Reformation began and I am considering starting the fifth war now with Castille on my side (France holds some of their cores). I hold east coast of Canada and US, however Portoguese hold Manhattan (to my dissapointment). Should I declare war on France now or wait a bit to get Protestantism?
 
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A lot of what I could tell you (e.g., conquer Scotland early and form Great Britain - you'll need the conquer Scotland mission to do this right) won't necessarily help you now. And it's hard to advise you without knowing more details of your situation. Failing that, a few thoughts:

(1) Are you blockading them? That helps with WE.

(2) It sounds like you are doing this, but use the mobility of your fleet to keep striking on the edges of France. Go back and forth, keep them marching & countermarching (leads to attrition which will increase their WE). Relieve seiges on your continenetal possessions (though it looks like you've lost most of them) with quick strikes with overwhelming force. Don't neglect military access agreements with France's neighbors which will give you safe havens.

(3) Warn France - that will decrease the chances that you will have to fight her alone.

(4) Patience. Even without a high WE score, France's peace offers will get better the longer the war is.

(5) To the extent that you can (and I think it requires a positive war score), make them offer that they will refuse but which is "better than expected." They'll take a stability hit.

(6) Always use generals.

(7) If you have enough provinces to get the empire government option, take it. Better slider limits on centralization (you are maxing centralization, aren't you?) and morale benefits. It's worth the hit you'll take on your force limit.

I guess the other question is how far France has gone to consolidate their position. If they already own all of France & parts of Italy and Germany (and you say they have taken some of Castille's cores), they are likely much stronger than they are in my game, and thus the above tactics might not be enough.

Good luck.

Edit: there is also some good stuff here - http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Fighting_France - mostly elaborating on what I said, some of it not relevant to England, but a few additional nuggets which might help.
 
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