Venice against the Ottomans

blsteen said:

Ouch, the pain continues...

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No pain no gain.

Lucifer said:

In your situation, there is something I would do that I don't see in your AAR. That is sending a 2k strong cavalry force plundering the provinces of your ennemies. We you have the "plundered city tag", just go to the next province, as far as possible of the ennemies big stack. In the long term, it should make a huge difference.
Between us, I couldn't try this w/ FTG, as I have a CTD as soon as the game begin.
Good luck!

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You make a valid point. In my defense I admit that I got caught up in defending my territory and the one time I did march out it just caused another enemy to launch an attack. There was also the problem that the AI wasn't sending reinforcement of 1 or 2 thousand men at a time. I was seeing 4-8 thousand stacks heading my way. So basically lack of maneuverability to get around them, manpower needed to counter attack, plans to head to Emilia and me just missing out on what would have been an intelligent thing to do prevented me from doing what you suggest.

Sorry about the CDT. Is is every time you try? Have you tried the tech support forum?

Joe

I’m still on top of the world with my recent victories and things continue looking pretty damn good when I get this event.

Cool.





The next month this popped up.

I didn’t find any of the choices particularly enticing so I choose do nothing.







September 1468 and Venice gets a white peace from Milan. You’ve got to wonder what that war was all about?







Anyway I march back to Dalmatia and decide to once again try to sail to Emilia and capture the province

and even though not a month went by before Bohemia was once again besieging Istria I didn’t turn around, hell I didn’t even look back.





I just continue my voyage until I reached Emilia.

Even if I lose Istria the lost of Emilia should prove to be a nice counter balance. I did lose 2 galleys to attrition on the voyage. I have to keep a better eye on my ships.







The siege of Istria started on October 22 1468 and lasted until July 22 1470 when the fort finally fell to the enemy. This is a shot of what was going on during the siege.

Hungary marched their masses to Istria and took over the siege with their leader and I had no desire to even think of interfering with the siege because the enemy was taking heavy casualties due to attrition throughout the siege. We’re talking about big time wasting away here folks and they kept sending in reinforcements. I didn’t keep close track but it wouldn’t surprise me if their loses topped 50,000.








I captured Emilia just before Istria fell and believe it or not had a positive war score so I offered a Status Quo peace but Austria turned me down. Then Istria fell and I was once again down to a
-8 war score. Sigh.

Hungary, feeling quite smug about their recent success, starts spamming me demanding Istria for peace. I tell them to get in line.

September 1470, after Hungary and her allies left, I slip back into Istria and start besieging the province. Unfortunately there isn’t much else I can do at this time because I’m down to 6827 infantry and 6895 Cavalry with the rest in Emlia. While I’m doing that Hungary marches 33,000 men and besieges Dalmatia. Why does Bohemia sit with 50,000 in Mantua sitting on their posterior while Hungary acts like someone lit a fire under their posteriors?








Meanwhile I’ve sent my fleet back to Emilia to pick up my army and suddenly a Tyrol sends a fleet out to do battle and they engage my fleet. And I lose
I’ve got a great admiral, a huge advantage in numbers oh but Tyrol gets a single, as in one, you know less than two, reinforcement during the battle and I lose? WTF The only thing I can think of is maybe fatigue plays a factor in a sea battle? That hurt.








My fleet retreats to another sea zone. Then I move them back off Emilia and the enemy fleet is gone so I start to move my army from Emilia to the fleet. When this happens.

It seems Bosnia has pissed off Austria Hungary and Bohemia. Maybe this will provide a distraction? Yea right.








So we move back to my fleet who are once again waiting for my army to board when they are attacked once again by Tyrol’s mighty navy.









At least this time we won the battle but Tyrol’s fleet succeeded even in defeat to destroy my plans.

As you can see I’m losing ships to attrition but I keep marching my army toward the sips wondering if they can get there before they leave. Yea I know once the ships start heading back I don’t think I can load my army but I was desperate.






Here’s how it turned out.

Sigh.

coz1 said:

Um, Joe...silly question here...why didn't you just march over and siege Firenze? That IS Tyrol, isn't it?

Now, are we all missing some crucial piece of the puzzle, or did coz1 just point out a Titanic-sinking sized gap in your strategic awareness?

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Yes I could invade Firenze but I didn’t want anything to do with Tyrol. The last thing I wanted was to capture Firenze and then get stuck in a never ending offer, counter offer, peace gambit that would never end. (I’ve already got that with Austria and friends) So I wanted no contact with them at all, that way after five years (EDIT: Make that three years not five) I’d get a white peace and wash my hands of them.(Picture me washing my hands in disgust in a furious manner) Or as my Aunt Louise (the one with only one good eye) would say “good riddance to bad rubbish”. Now thanks to that piss poor excuse of a fleet that would have trouble staying afloat in a bath tub full of rubber ducks they pushed my time table for that white peace back.

I just want to say I’m shocked, just shocked to the tips of my toes that you two missed such an obvious strategy. I mean the next thing you’ll tell me is coz1 can’t manage a country without running the inflation up past 60%!!! Impossible!

Duke of Wellington said:

Getting a new state culture is normally great, but when that culture turns out to be Albanian... Well I think that must be quite disappointing.

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I think it safe to say I was underwhelmed.

stnylan said:

Well, things could be worse. They have been worse. Arguably they are slightly better now than they were last update.

One has to laugh at the Tyrolean navy.

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I'm not sure if I was laughing at the time. My recollection is somewhat hazy possibly due to the head basing that occurred at the end of the battle. I can say with full confidence that things do get better and worst as the war goes on...and on...and on...

Prinz Wilhelm said:

But it probably won't happen since they have a navy... Get Firenze and use it for alliance warscore.

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Fortunately they don't appear to be adventurous in the use of their navy. Strictly a coastal affair. So I'm going to just stay away from them and see what happens.

Joe

As my defeated fleet sails back to the nearest port I see that Corfu has a spontaneous conversion to my state religion. I also take the time to order the construction of the first galley in the game.

In July 1471 I recapture Istria. My sieges ‘seem’ to progress a little faster than the AI but not by much.




I try to buy a little peace.

And fail.





So we try again to collect my army in Emilia and this time we succeed.






My fleet started out with 5 warships 10 galleys and 5 transports. I believe most of my losses were due to attrition.

I’m going to have to rebuilt my fleet but I can’t afford to do so right now.





Meanwhile as my fleet returns I’ve been helpless at stopping Hungary and Bohemia from besieging Dalmatia and Ragusa and I made the mistake of taking my eyes off Austria and suddenly I’m in trouble, as in I get caught flatfooted.

Who would have thought that the AI, which is already besieging two provinces, would launch a third attack? I mean that almost counts as being sentient doesn’t it? Another thing I noticed after the battle is that I haven’t retreated during the course of any battle with any of my armies at any time during the entire game. I think this is a mental carryover from my EU II days. I figure the AI doesn’t retreat during a battle so it’s unfair for me to do it. The down side playing this way is my army took serious losses that will take time to recover from.




The current situation is my entire seacoast less Veneto is besieged.







The AI isn’t satisfied with it’s troop deployment so it moves most of it’s force to Istria, which is besieged, while Dalmatia and Ragusa are simply covered. What does it have in mind? Is it laying a cunning trap? Is it the spider to my fly? Have I had too much to drink?











Anyway it looks like I have an opportunity to strike back. I load up my men and sail to Dalmatia where the AI has just removed the last of its men. From there I plan to march to Ragusa and relieve the fort when for some reason I looked around and by the grace of the big guy above I realize that sometime in the past I must have merged my fleet and OMG!.I’ve left Veneto exposed.









Lucky for me I noticed this screw up early enough to recover and sail my fleet back just in time to secure Veneto. Now I know why Bohemia kept those 50,000 men in Mantua. I was surprised at how quickly the AI responded to my screw up. Yep that's 32,000 men marching toward Veneto.

I divide my fleet once again pledging to keep them separate for the rest of the war.







Early August Istria falls again. Don’t now if that’s the third or forth time. At least I counter attack and destroy the Bohemian army (a few thousand men) in Ragusa.

The AI doesn’t miss a beat and comes right back at me and besieges Dalmatia, again. It just won’t give up will it?





I decide to make an end run around Dalmatia and land my men in Istria where I defeat the remnants of the Bohemian and Austrian armies. Is this the first indication that the AI is hurting for manpower???






I would like pause the game at this time and have a moment of silence so that we may all reflected on the fact that we are now at the 25 year mark for this glorious war that use to be called “The Wars of Attrition” but will hence forth be known by the moniker “The Never Ending Wars”. Thank you for your kind thoughts and well wishes.

stnylan said:

I think it's touching how everyone just wants to get up close and personal and give Venice a nice makeover in best Renaissance sacked-city style

Twenty-five years is rather impressive though.

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As impressive as it is I really don’t want to go for 30 years.

Enewald said:

May the war never end until the last foe sleeps in his grave.

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I think I’m to the stage where I’d but happy if my last foes would just go to sleep in their beds!

Duke of Wellington said:

25 years! I have never ever been at war for that long. On the bright side if they already control your Dalmatian coast then things can't actually get much worse from here can they?

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Strangest thing is after 25 years of nonstop war my revolt risk isn’t too high. You’d think it would be through the roof but it isn’t. If I remember I’ll post it.

Chief Ragusa said:

Great to see you writinfg again , Storey.
Some of your game play has me a bit mystified. Getting BB that high is clearly punished in FTG.

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Good to hear from you again and I think you’ll see that my ability in the game hasn’t improved since EU II.

My first mistake was not realizing what was considered too high for BB. When I annexed Romagna my BB went to 9.6/37. When I annexed Mantua sometime in the next five years my BB jumped to 22.6/37. I was caught off guard by the size of the increase and by the fact that it was enough to kick off the BB wars.

Chief Ragusa said:

You had two opportunities to take troops at qute a bit less than it would cost you to build and available right away -14,000 is not to be sniffed at. Nor was the 4 off BB.

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The extra men weren’t going to make a difference considering the numbers I was facing. My big mistake was not realizing how important that -4 BB could be in the long run. If it happens again I won't make that mistake again.

Chief Ragusa said:

You did take the 10,000 cavalry, but then used them a mission to milia. That seems aggressive foreign policy and not cautious. At least you didn't lose them.

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Strange thing is I’m usually a cautious player and you can see why. I tend not to be aggressive enough to pull it off. Emilia I wanted just to help my war score. It was one of the few places I could safely attack the AI and not get overwhelmed by the AI’s big stacks.

Chief Ragusa said:

You also spurned a chance to increase revolt risk by 5%. The AI can't leave rebels alone. At a time when you're invaded and face every province having a stack of enemy troops, free rebels are your friends, except on Crete and Corfu, which you need to to keep free to rest troops and build new regiments and ships.

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I was having way to much trouble defeating rebels. It was taking me two or three battles to defeat them and it really distracted me from the war. So no I didn’t have to nerve to follow that strategy and voluntarily up the revolt risk and risk a revolt on Crete and Corfu.

Chief Ragusa said:

So the ai invaded three different provinces. But old habit die hard and they soon went for the let's besiege one with a huge stack that takes horrendous attrition. It's refreshing to see the old ideas are best from the ai.

I'm not surprised that Tyrol's fresh 2 ship navy beat your 'we've-been-at -sea-forever' fleet. I hope you are giving them shore leave.

Isn't it time for the hngarians and Tunisians and Ottomans to come and treat venice like a dog's diner again. It's about time the Scandinavians came calling around again.

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Yep I saw those three provinces besieged and couldn’t believe my eyes but it didn’t last long.

I’m happy to say there were no more naval battles with Tyrol!

Yes it’s time but you have the wrong countries showing up to take a crack at Venice.

Herr Doctor said:

It is great that you manage to deal with so many enemies at once!

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If it weren’t for my navy I’d be pushing up daisies by now.

Joe

I start a siege on Istria and start sending peace offers spiced up with 100 ducats to anyone and everyone and no one take the bait so the war goes on.





A nice event comes along.






I notice that the Mamluks have joined the Ottoman alliance. Hmm that could be a problem.







The dueling sieges continue when this pops up.

Now that’s what I call an event





August 1473 and Morea succumbs to the Ottomans.






I think my theory about the enemy running out of manpower was premature at least as for as Hungary is concerned.







I’m still spamming everyone for peace. No takers.


Hungary marches to Ragusa and besieges the fort. Once again the entire coast line is covered with sieges. This merry-go-round of a war even to the brain dead AI must be viewed as hopeless and the AI refuses another peace offer. I wonder if it would take my first born?





Then this pops up? I think about it and finally say why not and grant access. It might or might not dissuade them from DOWing me but if I remember correctly it will cost them a stability point if they do.

Should be interesting to see if they ever use it.




Dalmatia is the first fort to fall in November 1473.





Sure enough three years to the day we have pecae with Tyrol. A welcome result.







In May 1474 Istria falls to me and four days later ragusa falls to Hungary. So what will happen now?

I think it safe to say they want Istria back. I decide to stay put and duke it out with them.






Let the battle begin.

Well it wasn’t even close but at least I didn’t lose too many men.








And as if that wasn’t enough bad news this happens.

Siena and Bosnia get a hair up their butt and DOW me? I think I’m beginning to think someone has it in for me.







Sigh.