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Thread: Heir to the Throne - Dev Diary 4

  1. #161
    Your Friendly Dictator Grubnessul's Avatar
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    Actually no, people in better economic conditions will have less babies.
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  2. #162
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubnessul View Post
    Actually no, people in better economic conditions will have less babies.
    Uhh....what? It makes sense that people in better economic conditions will have more (non-crime induced) babies.
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  3. #163
    WilsonSportingGoodsVolley ball EUROO7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeYoshi View Post
    Uhh....what? It makes sense that people in better economic conditions will have more (non-crime induced) babies.
    Why does it make sense?
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  4. #164
    Mushroom Korps Field Marshal OrangeYoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUROO7 View Post
    Why does it make sense?
    Because people are less likely to want to bring a child into a horrible place than they are a wonderful place.

    @ OliverFA: I didn't think about Magistrates improving the economic condition, and therefor improving birth rates.
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  5. #165
    Your Friendly Dictator Grubnessul's Avatar
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    Europe and the USA are the richest areas in the world and the population is actually shrinking....

    Poor people have more children because of the lower survival rate and to sustain them when they're too old to work. Moreover, it is very very expansive to raise kids in a more wealthy environment as education takes much longer (and is more expansive) e.g. a 6 year old kid can do stupid work in a factory, but is useless as lawyer/engineer etc.
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  6. #166
    No, they have no TV, so they are bored. Thats the reason.

  7. #167
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    As long as I have enough babies to put on my horses and send against the French, I'm good.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubnessul View Post
    Europe and the USA are the richest areas in the world and the population is actually shrinking....

    Poor people have more children because of the lower survival rate and to sustain them when they're too old to work. Moreover, it is very very expansive to raise kids in a more wealthy environment as education takes much longer (and is more expansive) e.g. a 6 year old kid can do stupid work in a factory, but is useless as lawyer/engineer etc.
    people of euroope and usa are spoiled and if they don't get second car and third tv to their bathroom - they won't procreate.

  9. #169
    New HRE is great, but I'm wondering if this system can be "extended" to other regions. If HTT would use (or allow modders to use) HRE system as basis for japanese shogunate it would be awesome!

  10. #170
    Weapon of Mass Obstruction antracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatich View Post
    New HRE is great, but I'm wondering if this system can be "extended" to other regions. If HTT would use (or allow modders to use) HRE system as basis for japanese shogunate it would be awesome!
    What's this got to do with...

    Oh, sorry...

    Didn't recognize the on topic post...

    Actually, This sounds very intriguing... Makes you wonder if it could be done in such a way that it could be remodeled after other organizations. The shoguns were the first thing that came to my mind too, as well as being able to develop intricate Hansa type organizations or other religious orders...

    T
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  11. #171
    Second Lieutenant an Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antracer View Post
    What's this got to do with...

    Oh, sorry...

    Didn't recognize the on topic post...

    Actually, This sounds very intriguing... Makes you wonder if it could be done in such a way that it could be remodeled after other organizations. The shoguns were the first thing that came to my mind too, as well as being able to develop intricate Hansa type organizations or other religious orders...

    T
    This. Especially how you mentioned religious orders. I have an idea to replace the current Papacy-Curia system (which imho is kinda unrealistic) and it is to use a HRE-like system where nations vote for a new pope. By combing the Curia and HRE systems, nations bribe cardinals to vote however the nation wants, and there is a set number of cardinals(electors). Example: France bribes Cardinal Richelieu, France dictates to Richelieu to vote for John Doe(who is from Spain), and then Doe gets a majority of the votes and become pontiff. France could also vote for France (if they wanted to). I don't think this system will be implemented, but I also know that PI had said they would change the Papacy a bit, so hopefully...
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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubnessul View Post
    Europe and the USA are the richest areas in the world and the population is actually shrinking....

    Poor people have more children because of the lower survival rate and to sustain them when they're too old to work. Moreover, it is very very expansive to raise kids in a more wealthy environment as education takes much longer (and is more expansive) e.g. a 6 year old kid can do stupid work in a factory, but is useless as lawyer/engineer etc.
    It's more to do with you child's survival rates - parents are more likely to have less children if they know their child will survive into adulthood. Wealth won't protect you from the plague .

    Modern America and Europe aren't very valid comparisons - both due to modern healthcare (and reduced child mortality,) and contraception.

  13. #173
    "Europe and the USA are the richest areas in the world and the population is actually shrinking...."

    - The only applies to Far East Europe.

    The USA's population is still going up.
    ---
    Anyway, if you're wondering how people will make others have more babies, fortune cookies is always the answer. :3

  14. #174
    Field Marshal Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeYoshi View Post
    Because people are less likely to want to bring a child into a horrible place than they are a wonderful place.

    @ OliverFA: I didn't think about Magistrates improving the economic condition, and therefor improving birth rates.
    It's been shown that the better educated people are, the fewer children they tend to have (or at least, the later in life they'll have them). Might be due to a more developed sense of self, better understanding and access to contraceptives, fewer ties to religious traditions which encourage multiple children/discourage contraceptives or abortion, whatever. Some of the most economically developed countries have major problems with birthrates. France and Japan are both facing major population crises due to low birth rates. And even for the US, I believe I read our population increase is due more to immigration than to "native" births, particularly among the European descended population. It's been out there for years that the latino population is growing faster than other groups here.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomdark View Post
    Todays diary is about that agglomeration of states which Voltaire thought was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. As a Swede I am of course bound to concur. Cum Deo et victribus armis! Even so, the HRE wielded a lot of power, and in another world, full of little eagles, crowns and, indeed, Krauts, it might eventually have coalesced into a proper nation. And that's what we're all about here at Paradox; alternate history! Well, that and authority, but more on that later.

    In Heir to the Throne, we are adding more features to the HRE than it had members. Well, maybe not, but still quite a few. First off, a new concept called Imperial Authority. Imperial Authority represents the amount of control the Emperor exerts over the princes of the empire. It can be gained or lost in many ways, for example by answering the call of members under attack by foreign powers, or by liberating an annexed HRE member. The main reason for having Imperial Authority is to execute the special decisions that will allow skilled Holy Roman Emperors to tighten the reins on the member princes and eventually unite the disparate fiefdoms under one banner.

    We are also adding at least two new diplomatic actions: "Bestow Imperial Grace" and "Enforce Religious Unity". The first works like "Send Gift", except it costs Imperial Authority rather than gold and gives a greater boost to relations. The second is a demand for conversion. If the errant princeling accepts, the religion changes and the Emperor gains more authority. If he refuses, the Emperor gains a special Casus Belli. (Speaking of which, in line with the new CB system, princes of the HRE are now allowed to fight each other without incurring the wrath of the Emperor, provided they have a valid Casus Belli.)

    Finally, we have the "Imperial Ban" Casus Belli, which the emperor can employ against any non-member country with provinces that are part of the Empire. This only becomes available after a certain reform decision has been taken at the cost of Imperial Authority. (You will have noticed I've mentioned authority a lot. That's because at Paradox, we like authority; especially Johan.)

    Now, while the above system is essentially done, the HRE window is unfortunately not, so I cannot provide you with a screenshot of the altered interface. Instead, I will let you feast your eyes on another new feature, cruelly allowing your imaginations to run wild until the next diary entry.

    Adieu.


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  16. #176
    Rofl. I was thinking the exact same thing at Dev Diary 1. xD

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by antracer View Post
    It's amazing what people can read into a post... The example given is fact. It's just what people do. 'Hey, there's a great country over there where we can find work and support our families better than here...' No secret plot, no hidden agenda. The game doesn't do culture shift like this very well, but the fact remains that California, among half the other states in the country have had to rewrite laws, reinterpret laws, reinvent laws and procedures to deal with millions of people who don't speak 'American' as their native language.

    In game terms, if you take over a province, it will be filled with people that are native to the province, but not native to the nation that owns it. It's symbolized rather weakly now with nationalism RR. It would be nice to have a magistrate assigned to the province to speed that along. His job entails establishing and enforcing the views and laws of the motherland, not reinforcing the views and laws of the old province owner.

    As a separate spy mission type thing, it would be very interesting to send someone in to plant subversion, or 'work ' a province to help a nation before they take it over. Propaganda if you will. I won't bring up any examples of it though, as someone will surely misread and interject all sorts of comments about how I offended their lack of sensibility. I'm sure all of you can come up with propaganda references of your own.

    Really guys, read a post for what's there, not for what you can make out of it... Having said that, I wonder how long it takes for someone to get all bent because I used 'American' and 'Native' in the same post, and how offended they are...
    T
    Exactly, some people are oversensitive for everything and for nothing, personally I think that we should not be worrying about who gets offended much less apologize.

    We should be able to speak our minds freely, if someone doesn't like what they hear/read, or gets offended by something, well that's their problem, we shouldn't be constantly watching what we say/write or what words we use, just because someone might get offended, if they do, they're free to discuss the topic, or leave, that simple.

    If the only argument they have, is that they get offended, it's because they don't have a real argument at all, and are projecting their own biases, prejudices and insecurities on other people.

    That is real freedom of information and freedom of speech, being able to speak your mind without any taboo words or topics, that's liberty!.

    Someone once said: "those who surrender freedom in exchange for security deserve neither"

    Now in the topic of immigration and ethnic and cultural shift, I agree with you in all but that part about it not being part of an agenda or plot, in the end which entities are in the position to control those problems? governments are capable of passing or enforcing laws to avoid those scenarios, why they don't do it? money.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeYoshi View Post
    Uhh....what? It makes sense that people in better economic conditions will have more (non-crime induced) babies.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeYoshi View Post
    Because people are less likely to want to bring a child into a horrible place than they are a wonderful place.

    @ OliverFA: I didn't think about Magistrates improving the economic condition, and therefor improving birth rates.
    Have you seen statistics about world birth rates and world's worst conditions? guess what? the countries with worst life conditions are the ones with higher birth rates, and vice-versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colombo View Post
    No, they have no TV, so they are bored. Thats the reason.
    I guess that's part of the problem!

    Now (Finally) in topic: my guess is that the magistrates are either for the province focus thing or something to do with lowering RR, it's not coincidence that along with magistrates we see the new RR map layout.
    Last edited by tag=POR; 25-10-2009 at 19:56.

  18. #178
    Comrade Imperator Vladislav's Avatar
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    The good news is that we only have to wait until Tuesday to find out what magistrates do. The bad news is that we have to struggle through Monday in the meantime.

    Personally I think magistrates must have some very important role in a new feature introdued in the expansion, whatever that would be. So, not just "Magistrates are a new type of agent, they reduce revolt risk in a province while they are active. See you next week!"
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  19. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garak View Post
    It's been shown that the better educated people are, the fewer children they tend to have (or at least, the later in life they'll have them). Might be due to a more developed sense of self, better understanding and access to contraceptives, fewer ties to religious traditions which encourage multiple children/discourage contraceptives or abortion, whatever. Some of the most economically developed countries have major problems with birthrates. France and Japan are both facing major population crises due to low birth rates. And even for the US, I believe I read our population increase is due more to immigration than to "native" births, particularly among the European descended population. It's been out there for years that the latino population is growing faster than other groups here.
    Exactly, and that's exactly the problem here, when the native population of a country starts being out-breed by non-natives it's something to take concern, and start asking questions:
    why is this happening?
    why the government solution is to flood the country with immigrants?
    is this really the best solution?
    what's going to happen next?
    are the natives ok in becoming a minority in their own country?
    is it really ok for the non-natives to come to a new country and make demands they wouldn't dare to do in their countries of origin?
    is it really ok for the non-natives to organize and to elect officials and authorities in their host country?
    are really the non-natives the ones to blame? or the corrupt government/system that allows the scenario in the first place?, after all they should know better, shouldn't they?

    I also like that you mentioned Japan as one of the examples with a low birth rate... how are they attacking the problem? is their solution to flood their country with immigrants? no, they're doing the total opposite of what's been done by the western governments and they are doing just fine, as a matter of fact even better.

    Another example in another region of the world is Israel, take a look at their foreign policies, immigration policies and citizenship policies.

    If it works for them why shouldn't work for the western countries? after all aren't we all equal?
    Last edited by tag=POR; 25-10-2009 at 19:58.

  20. #180
    Field Marshal Dafool's Avatar
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    I really don't think the type of emigration you guys are discussing is really that useful to model during the game's time frame. While there were movements of people and culture, they weren't as massive or explicit as they are today. While I'm sure some people did move en masse to other areas, it wasn't easy or generally that beneficial given the huge costs and the time needed for transportation. Short of being some form of indentured servant or colonist, there wasn't much chance the average serf or peasant is going to be paying his way 100 miles in any direction. Even then, if they don't have a promising chance of profit, they might not even bother. The idea of "seeding" you culture into enemy territory seems like it would better be left to cores and diplomatic events than having a do it yourself option. It's much like nationalism. It existed, but wasn't really prominent or hugely relevant within the majority of the game's time frame.

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