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Thread: Epigoni mod

  1. #161
    Hardradi, what are you planning on doing with the east (beyond the current border)?
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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by birdboy2000 View Post
    Regarding the "Release Greek state" decisions, I think they need more troops at the start. I tried to play a game as Athens and got swallowed right away.
    Really? I recall playing an Athens game a while back where I somehow managed to survive and actually beat the living hell out of Macedon and took all of continental Greece. Probably had something to do with having two martial 11 generals spawn out of nowhere, both for the military party.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerigus Crux View Post
    Wonderful! I'll wait for this...

    Langobardi: Tacitus mention this people about his military power, I have to read Paolo Diacono, Historia Langobardorum, to see if there's some information at this time, but I don't remember nothing relevant...

    Suiones are, for Tacitus, are the people of the south Scandinavian region, the ancestors of Sweden, mentioned as trader with a strong monarchy; Tacitus speak also about their ships, suitable for river and close coastal navigation...

    I have also found in Wikipedia a good page about germans, with some maps of the german spread in this time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples
    And now I'm searching for archaeological publication about iron age in germany.

    For Cimbri/Teutoni, the only thing is put them as allies with military access on the other german tribe, but the problem is to move their army from Jutland to Gaul and Italy...
    Cool, let me know what you find (I am aware of the Wiki page). Also, I wouldnt get to bogged down into which cultural subclass they belong to (West, North, Suebi, etc). You will go around in circles, I have at least three times already.

    With the Cimbri/Tuetoni, unfortunately we cant cant mod military access.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdboy2000 View Post
    Regarding the "Release Greek state" decisions, I think they need more troops at the start. I tried to play a game as Athens and got swallowed right away.
    You mean switching to them after you release them. They were a minor power, a faint shadow of their former glory during the Hellenic Age. Most minor states only start with one unit so giving them one unit seems fair.

    Perhaps you should have allied with them before you switched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Walter View Post
    Hardradi, what are you planning on doing with the east (beyond the current border)?
    As far as extending the map, I was hoping someone would do it for me and I would do some more crude terrain map work. I dont have the time and energy to learn how the terrain map ties in with the other maps and then do all the trial and error. Also I only want to do small bits at a time not a huge project that bogs down and never gets completed.

    Step 1 would be to go all the way to the Aral Sea, adding in the Parni and other Dahae tribes east of the Caspian. Further north the Greater Aorsi.

    Anyone interested ?

  4. #164
    Megalomaniac birdboy2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardradi View Post
    You mean switching to them after you release them. They were a minor power, a faint shadow of their former glory during the Hellenic Age. Most minor states only start with one unit so giving them one unit seems fair.

    Perhaps you should have allied with them before you switched.
    After a few restarts (and sending out alliances to everyone on day one so I don't get attacked, then hiring a bunch of mercs) I managed to get them to middle power status, but... one still seems a bit low. Even Sparta gets two. I'm not being swallowed by Macedonia, but by other minors.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardradi View Post
    As far as extending the map, I was hoping someone would do it for me and I would do some more crude terrain map work. I dont have the time and energy to learn how the terrain map ties in with the other maps and then do all the trial and error. Also I only want to do small bits at a time not a huge project that bogs down and never gets completed.

    Step 1 would be to go all the way to the Aral Sea, adding in the Parni and other Dahae tribes east of the Caspian. Further north the Greater Aorsi.

    Anyone interested ?
    I might try to make something if I have time. But my map skills suck, so this may turn out to be nothing.
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  6. #166

  7. #167
    To save yourself a bit of work, could you maybe use the Magna Terra map? Or is that a wee bit too ambitious for you, including the entire ancient world? Maybe just get someone to cut it down to whatever bounds you want?

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardradi View Post
    Dont neglect your Maccabees Mod. I am still looking forward to it.
    I am not neglecting it, believe me. My computer is giving me hell with the localisation files though. For some reason, whenever I add anything, the computer or game apparently doesn't recognize it. Other than that it is working fine. I am going to solve this problem by transferring my files to a different computer, and then working on them.

    Btw, I haven't had time to make a map at all anyway.
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  9. #169
    Legio XXI Rapax kristoff's Avatar
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    I know that when it's ready, but still... When can we expect new version of Epigoni? Trying to decide: start a new GC or wait.

    PS. Hardradi, I suppose you've seen this http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...d.php?t=473582. I mean ideas about bribery. Would it be possible to see something along these lines in Epigoni? I'm not sure if and how it could be modded, but maybe you know how to.
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  10. #170
    I still have to finalise the latest map changes which I finally got working. I got side-tracked on another major change, hopefully it wont spillover into the next relese and cause problems. It could be at the end of this weekend or maybe next weekend.

    On bribery, I dont think much of it is directly moddable. Bribe cost is easily moddable but only as a flat figure. Corruption is something that effects characters. I presume it increases/decreases the chance of a successful bribe but not the bribe cost. If we can identify an event which triggers after a bribe (if an event exists) then that may provide more options.

  11. #171
    Looking forward to the new map changes! And whatever else is in the next release of course.

    If it's not too late for feedback, I'm not sure the wonders (while a wonderful addition to the game, if you'll pardon the pun) are well balanced. Most seem to give -1 RR country-wide, so anyone who controls several wonders will become almost immune to the +8 RR intrigue mission, and quite possibly immune to two such missions succeeding in any given province. In particular this makes the Seleucids incredibly robust against rebellion (-1 RR from Imperium, plus all the wonders they control and can add by rebuilding). One could argue that the historical rebellions they suffered would mostly be represented by foolishly leaving disloyal governors in office until they rebel, but I think that game balance would be improved if wonders lost the -1 RR bonus. Is there a way to make wonders give a one-time bonus (+5%, maybe?) to civilization in that province, rather than an enduring RR bonus to the country? Or just leave them as -4% stability cost and nothing else - that's a perfectly good benefit to have.

  12. #172
    Thanks jh.

    I will review the wonders in relation to revolt risk and see if I can make it local. If I cant I will see if I can make it cultural. I will be adding a new "wonder" in the next version as well.

    Do you think the Support Rebels revolt risk factor is high enough? I have increased it from 5 to 8 and I am feeling inclined to go to 10 or maybe 12. It had little effect in my last game at the 8 level. In the original rome you could spam out about 5 on top of each other all on the same province. My feeling is that it is now pointless.

    I am also going to implement some new regions in the east based on the Persian/Argead satrapies, Babylonia, Persia, Camaria, Parthia, Hyrcania, etc. This might weaken the Seleucids as they will have more governors and more chances of rebellion.

  13. #173
    Raising the Support Rebels effect to 10, 12, even 15 seems OK to me. I'm not much of an intrigue player and have never found that mission useful (mostly attempted it in EU3). At least with a higher value the AI would get some effect when it does these missions.

    More regions sounds great! Any plans to extend that kind of thing to some of the other big provinces on the map? Off the top of my head, Iberia, Tarraconensis, and Lugdunensis come to mind. And although Syria's not terribly big it is extremely valuable, so perhaps splitting off a Judea province would work. And maybe Crete should be its own region - I've found that as part of the rest of southern Greece it's tempting to consolidate Crete as well since I already have a good governor in place for the region.

    Is it possible to mod the time when officials are grayed-out and cannot be replaced after being appointed? If a governor in a monarchy (don't want to screw up Republics, if this is even possible) is locked into something like a 5 year term before it's possible to replace him, that greatly increases the chances of a provincial rebellion. Plenty of time to get a "Become Ruler" ambition, and/or for one of those "Affairs of State" events to come along involving the governor's wife, or other unpredictable loyalty decreasing stuff to happen. Right now it's too easy to just replace the guy once the disloyal governor warning shows up...

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by jhhowell View Post
    Raising the Support Rebels effect to 10, 12, even 15 seems OK to me. I'm not much of an intrigue player and have never found that mission useful (mostly attempted it in EU3). At least with a higher value the AI would get some effect when it does these missions.
    Of all of the intrigue missions this is the one I like the most. I think I will jack it up to 12 and see what happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhowell View Post
    More regions sounds great! Any plans to extend that kind of thing to some of the other big provinces on the map? Off the top of my head, Iberia, Tarraconensis, and Lugdunensis come to mind. And although Syria's not terribly big it is extremely valuable, so perhaps splitting off a Judea province would work. And maybe Crete should be its own region - I've found that as part of the rest of southern Greece it's tempting to consolidate Crete as well since I already have a good governor in place for the region.
    Spain was always tradiaitonally two or three so I am not keen to touch that. I like your other thoughts though, particularly Crete as I think this used to be a Roman province. I think Cato was there for some reason and one of the Antonies got an ass-kicking their as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhowell View Post
    Is it possible to mod the time when officials are grayed-out and cannot be replaced after being appointed? If a governor in a monarchy (don't want to screw up Republics, if this is even possible) is locked into something like a 5 year term before it's possible to replace him, that greatly increases the chances of a provincial rebellion. Plenty of time to get a "Become Ruler" ambition, and/or for one of those "Affairs of State" events to come along involving the governor's wife, or other unpredictable loyalty decreasing stuff to happen. Right now it's too easy to just replace the guy once the disloyal governor warning shows up...
    Ah, yes it appears moddable via the office_terms file. This is very interesting, you could use this to centralise and decentralise the control of your governors. This might help me a lot with something else as well.

  15. #175
    I think that the "Council of Pontifices" national idea needs to be replaced. In order to have a council, you need to have a clearly structured idea of who is in charge of whom. There were only 3 examples of this currently represemted in the game: Phonecian, which had a hereditary preisthood, Judaism, which also had a hereditary preisthood, and Zoroastrianism. Of these, only Judaism and Zoroastrianism, as far as I know, actually had councils who debated about what to do. Since it was so rare, I therefore suggest it be replaced with something more useful.

    Second, I propose you add a 'Pillaged' modifier, triggered via decisions, giving you money based on the province, but giving it the modifier which would make revolt risk something like -10 but also killing the tax rate. The trigger would be that the province is occupied by the nation.
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  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Walter View Post
    I think that the "Council of Pontifices" national idea needs to be replaced. In order to have a council, you need to have a clearly structured idea of who is in charge of whom. There were only 3 examples of this currently represemted in the game: Phonecian, which had a hereditary preisthood, Judaism, which also had a hereditary preisthood, and Zoroastrianism. Of these, only Judaism and Zoroastrianism, as far as I know, actually had councils who debated about what to do. Since it was so rare, I therefore suggest it be replaced with something more useful.
    Any suggestions of a relevant replacement, or perhaps it should be renamed "Organised/Centralised Religion"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Walter View Post
    Second, I propose you add a 'Pillaged' modifier, triggered via decisions, giving you money based on the province, but giving it the modifier which would make revolt risk something like -10 but also killing the tax rate. The trigger would be that the province is occupied by the nation.
    Yes, I was thinking of including something after a discussion on the main board.

  17. #177
    Scripter Paradox Dev Team Trin Tragula's Avatar
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    I suppose it's away from the main focus on the mod but is there any possibility of Carthage getting some attention? I've tended to play it since I first played EU:Rome to learn the game as a republic and I find their decisions to be rather bland.
    I don't know much about Carthage otherwise however (and I haven't been able to find much out) so I have few ideas on what that might be unfortunately.

    What has always struck me as odd is that their naval standardization decision increases overall tech costs. I could possibly see it increasing naval tech cost but perhaps not the overall costs of all techs? I tested the modifier "naval_tech_cost_modifier" from eu3 and it works for Rome too even though it's got no localization and as far as I can tell is unused in the vanilla game.
    I also find their mercenary decision a bit odd as it doesn't seem to relate to actual mercenaries at all.
    Otherwise I suppose something about how citizens would serve in the navy rather than the army might be grounds for a decision or related events?
    Last edited by Trin Tragula; 16-05-2010 at 19:32.

  18. #178
    First impressions - the new provinces and sea zones are great to see! I really like the idea of the climate zone system, but I disagree with several elements of the implementation.

    1. Temperate is treated as being richer land than Mediterranean, which seems backwards to me. I can accept this as a balancing factor designed to boost the Gallic tribes relative to the Romans, if that is in fact the intent. If realism is the intent, then reversing the modifiers (no modifier for Temperate, +10% tax value for Mediterranean) should be more accurate.

    2. I'm not convinced that the Fertile Crescent and Mesopotamian provinces are correct to be assigned Semi-Arid. That's about right for that region today, but had they already been that badly damaged 2300 years ago? If not, Mediterranean would probably be appropriate (certainly for 5-6000 years ago; perhaps a middle ground of a no-modifier version of Temperate as in point 1 would work for this time period?). Damascus, Susa, and Persepolis being Arid seems odd as well. All three were hugely important cities during or very shortly before this era, so it seems strange that they'd be in what amount to desert provinces. If Arid is actually correct for those regions in this time period, perhaps an even more extreme "Desert" climate tag should be added to differentiate these cities from places like Libya province?

    3. Some provinces are simply wrong. Gallia Cisalpina (capital: Milan) is assigned Highland climate, presumably because the province includes part of the Alps. The province also includes a hefty chunk of the highly valuable and productive Po valley, so one of Temperate or Mediterranean would be correct (wikipedia says Temperate for North Italy's inland plains like this). The same logic in reverse indicates that Helvetii should be Highland not Temperate. IIRC, Caesar noted that it was a poor land whose inhabitants tried and failed to take better land in Gaul in the Gallic Wars. And really, if the heart of modern Switzerland isn't Highland, what is?

    Ditto for parts of Armenia - there have to be Highland provinces in there though I don't know the region well enough to say which ones for certain. Again I believe it was Caesar who remarked on the extreme harshness of the terrain, and Continental doesn't do justice to that.

    Just checked, Pictii is also currently Temperate not Highland.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Trin Tragula View Post
    I suppose it's away from the main focus on the mod but is there any possibility of Carthage getting some attention? I've tended to play it since I first played EU:Rome to learn the game as a republic and I find their decisions to be rather bland.
    I don't know much about Carthage otherwise however (and I haven't been able to find much out) so I have few ideas on what that might be unfortunately.

    What has always struck me as odd is that their naval standardization decision increases overall tech costs. I could possibly see it increasing naval tech cost but perhaps not the overall costs of all techs? I tested the modifier "naval_tech_cost_modifier" from eu3 and it works for Rome too even though it's got no localization and as far as I can tell is unused in the vanilla game.
    I also find their mercenary decision a bit odd as it doesn't seem to relate to actual mercenaries at all.
    Otherwise I suppose something about how citizens would serve in the navy rather than the army might be grounds for a decision or related events?
    With Carthage I dont really know if we have enough information on them to add any real detail. We know they were great sailors, rich, used a lot of mercs, etc. I might be extending the map inland very soon and down the west coast of africa. If I do that I might put in some colonisation decisions (eg, colonise the Canary islands, etc). Also I want to split away Utica and make it independent but allied and tributary.

    I am not that savvy on how tech works in EUR. Do you mean the 6% technology cost modifier from this decision? Its affecting all technology but you think we could use the EUIII "naval_tech_cost_modifier" so that the penalty is specific to ships?

    There are not many merc related scopes, switches and effects in the game. That is why they have used the non-merc related modifiers. A shame really.

    You are suggesting another naval decision, where the the citizenry focus on naval matters rather than army matters? It could be increase naval recruitment speed but reduce army recruitment speed. It seems to have some basis, Wikipedia entry:

    The navy of Carthage was one of the largest in the Mediterranean, using serial production to maintain high numbers at moderate cost. The sailors and marines of the Carthaginian navy were predominantly recruited from the Punic citizenry, unlike the multi-national allied and mercenary troops of the Carthaginian armies. The navy offered a stable profession and financial security for its sailors. This helped to contribute to the city's political stability, since the unemployed, debt ridden poor in other cities were frequently inclined to support revolutionary leaders in the hope of improving their own lot. The reputation of her skilled sailors implies that there was in peacetime a training of oarsmen and coxswains, giving their navy a cutting edge in naval matters.
    It could also reduce populist attraction by the sounds of it but increase civic and mercantile attraction. Thanks for the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhhowell View Post
    First impressions - the new provinces and sea zones are great to see! I really like the idea of the climate zone system, but I disagree with several elements of the implementation.

    1. Temperate is treated as being richer land than Mediterranean, which seems backwards to me. I can accept this as a balancing factor designed to boost the Gallic tribes relative to the Romans, if that is in fact the intent. If realism is the intent, then reversing the modifiers (no modifier for Temperate, +10% tax value for Mediterranean) should be more accurate.

    2. I'm not convinced that the Fertile Crescent and Mesopotamian provinces are correct to be assigned Semi-Arid. That's about right for that region today, but had they already been that badly damaged 2300 years ago? If not, Mediterranean would probably be appropriate (certainly for 5-6000 years ago; perhaps a middle ground of a no-modifier version of Temperate as in point 1 would work for this time period?). Damascus, Susa, and Persepolis being Arid seems odd as well. All three were hugely important cities during or very shortly before this era, so it seems strange that they'd be in what amount to desert provinces. If Arid is actually correct for those regions in this time period, perhaps an even more extreme "Desert" climate tag should be added to differentiate these cities from places like Libya province?

    3. Some provinces are simply wrong. Gallia Cisalpina (capital: Milan) is assigned Highland climate, presumably because the province includes part of the Alps. The province also includes a hefty chunk of the highly valuable and productive Po valley, so one of Temperate or Mediterranean would be correct (wikipedia says Temperate for North Italy's inland plains like this). The same logic in reverse indicates that Helvetii should be Highland not Temperate. IIRC, Caesar noted that it was a poor land whose inhabitants tried and failed to take better land in Gaul in the Gallic Wars. And really, if the heart of modern Switzerland isn't Highland, what is?

    Ditto for parts of Armenia - there have to be Highland provinces in there though I don't know the region well enough to say which ones for certain. Again I believe it was Caesar who remarked on the extreme harshness of the terrain, and Continental doesn't do justice to that.

    Just checked, Pictii is also currently Temperate not Highland.
    Thanks for the feedback. The climate system has basically come through from RIMP untouched with kristoff's help. I didnt put any time into reviewing the work myself.

    1. I prefer realism but still think its ok. Living in a so called Mediterranean climate myself, I feel that the temperate climates are a lot more lush and capable of generating more crops and population. I have no facts for this though. Anyone else have an opinion?

    2. I just checked my Atlas and the Ferticle Crescent is a mixture of Mediterranean/Steppe/Desert from north to south (present day). Perhaps I need another one, Steppe. Agree with the three regions your brought up, they should not be arid.

    3. I seen the Gallia Cispal. province modifier when I was modding the map up there and did not like it. I agree with your comments on this, the Helvetti, Armenia and Scotland.

  20. #180
    Scripter Paradox Dev Team Trin Tragula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardradi View Post
    With Carthage I dont really know if we have enough information on them to add any real detail. We know they were great sailors, rich, used a lot of mercs, etc. I might be extending the map inland very soon and down the west coast of africa. If I do that I might put in some colonisation decisions (eg, colonise the Canary islands, etc). Also I want to split away Utica and make it independent but allied and tributary.
    Map expansion sounds nice (especially as that might perhaps mean the end of the current events recreating barbarian presence in the southernmost provinces in Africa?), as I said my primary reason for wanting more stuff for Carthage is that I tend to play them. I haven't really got a clue about Carthaginian history (apart from what's on Wikipedia).

    I am not that savvy on how tech works in EUR. Do you mean the 6% technology cost modifier from this decision? Its affecting all technology but you think we could use the EUIII "naval_tech_cost_modifier" so that the penalty is specific to ships?
    Exactly. The current decision increases tech costs by 6% for all techs while "naval_tech_cost_modifier" will just increase the cost for naval techs. If used localization will have to be added however as the modifier is accepted by the game (and works) but as it's unused by the base game there is no existing localization for it.

    I'm not that knowledgeable about eu:r modding either. I'm much more used to modding EU3 (and that's also a historical period I know more about).
    I wasn't able to find a list of usable modifiers for EU:R so I tested one from EU3 that worked.

    You are suggesting another naval decision, where the the citizenry focus on naval matters rather than army matters? It could be increase naval recruitment speed but reduce army recruitment speed. It seems to have some basis, Wikipedia entry:

    It could also reduce populist attraction by the sounds of it but increase civic and mercantile attraction. Thanks for the idea.
    This was exactly what I was suggesting Perhaps a higher organization for navies as well (as the mercenary decision lowers it for land troops)?

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