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VILenin

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Dec 24, 2004
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Welcome to my first HOI3 AAR! For this game I will be playing as the Soviet Union starting in 1936 and using a loose form of the rules outlined by Chillango in his own excellent AAR. To summarize, I will be letting the AI handle as much control over the military as I fell possible.

To this end I won't issue combat or operational orders to units below the Army level. I will issue orders to Corps to:
1)redeploy or reposition during peacetime
2)transfer units between commands
3)load/unload from transports

This way I can hopefully learn just how good the AI really is while leaving me free from the menial troubles of military micro-management and free to concentrate on lofty matters of strategy. ;)

This will be my first game with 1.2 and only my third overall, so I'm very much still in the learning phase. So if you want to see a player flounder and twist hopelessly in the wind then Onwards, Comrades, to Victory!:cool:
 
Ooh!!! :)

For what it's worth, I'd never played USSR until the HOI 3 beta, but when I started I had an absolute BLAST! :D

Looking forward to this!

Renss
 
First Impressions

After loading up the scenario and poking around for a few minutes the first things that run through my mind are the similarities and differences between playing the Soviet Union in HOI2. Strategically the situation is much the same. As the USSR you have the advantages of space and manpower to use against your potential adversaries, ie Germany. The map itself offers an immediate departure, however. The vastly increased number of provinces, combined with the greater delay in time between attacks, could mean that a defense in depth strategy is more effective against an armored spearhead and encirclement than in HOI2. Since I'm not much of a number cruncher I'll have to wait until the war breaks out to test this hypothesis.

The altered research system is a big difference as well. While I like the change overall, this seems to be a field where I will struggle more than in HOI2. The Soviet leadership pool is relatively small compared to some of the other major powers. With only just over 15 points a day it makes prioritizing an critical decision. Looking at the change log seems to indicate the officers are more important than ever in 1.2 and since I will almost certainly be building a large number of units later on it's doubtful I'll be able to keep pace. Therefore I'm going to try and pad my officer pool as much as possible ahead of time. The rest of the points need to go into research, as I can't afford to fall too far behind on critical areas like Infantry, Armor, Artillery and Land Doctrines. Expect Naval and, to a lesser extent, Air techs to languish accordingly. Still up in the air is how much to push Industrial tech. While I'd like to pump research into it I'm not sure how well I can afford it.

In my previous games I've seen Germany's IC increase dramatically between 1936 and 1941, a combination of tech, industrial policy and conquest. As the Soviets I start with a little over a 20 point advantage in base IC with noticeably less potential for growth. Full scale mobilization and heavy industry focus will help, as will grabbing the Baltic states, but I'm still going to be lagging. This is part of the incentive behind industrial research as it will help maintain industrial parity with the Reich.

Generally speaking the resource situation is good, though I could stand to have more crude oil, with decent trade prospects. Supply demand is also high, not surprising considering the bulbous army that's scattered across the country. Reorganization and unit trimming is a possibility to cut down on the necessary IC investment in supply during the pre-war years (current supply costs are in the low 40s). Another thing to consider is building factories. This was a standard component of my HOI2 strategy but may not be beneficial here.

Actual gameplay updates will start in a couple days, until then feel free to post ideas or questions. I'm certainly open to recommendations on general aspects of gameplay.
 
Ooh!!! :)

For what it's worth, I'd never played USSR until the HOI 3 beta, but when I started I had an absolute BLAST! :D

Looking forward to this!

Renss

Thanks, glad to have you aboard Renss!:)

I've always enjoyed trying to manage the chaos of the Eastern Front and break the Nazi war machine, we'll see if I have any luck doing so with the new game mechanics.
 
Sounds interesting! I always like the idea of playing the Soviets in HOI, but hardly ever put in the actual effort - so watching you succeed or flounder (probably succeed) should be fun and possibly inspiring. :)
 
Another AAR to watch!

For what it's worth, I don't think building factories is a bad idea. Mind you, I haven't resorted to IC whoring in any of my games yet, and I see the occasional thread in the forums claiming factories are worthless, but the general consensus seems to be that it's as beneficial as ever.

If nothing else, it's something you can test and give the final word on. I don't think the AI will be able to win against you regardless.
 
Maybe you would like to start your game with my mod. As my mod greatly improves the Soviet Union map. See my signature.
 
Looking forward to this!

Although your leadership is kinda low, one advantage the USSR has in the research system is its high Practical values. The have the highest starting practical in the game for Armor, and Light Airframes and Militia both start at 10. I haven't played around as the SU all that much, but I'm wondering if building units from the get-go is the best way to keep tech competitive.

On the other hand, all those resources do make a more IC-focused build tempting...you have any thoughts?
 
go for it comrade - see you in Berlin! - interesting to see how you try to solve the problems of getting the USSR into some degree of combat readiness.

Use Van Damien's map - it works great for 1.2, and for critical things - like the urban centres in the Ukraine and the Smolensk-Moscow 'land bridge' is spot on. I can cope with an odd rendition of the terrain in Scotland but do feel that European Russia is critical in any WW2 simulation.
 
I'm here! :D

Judging from my own HoI3 experiences so far, all theaters of war feel vastly larger than they did in HoI2. I would assume this is especially the case with the Eastern Front. Also, I'm pretty surprised the Soviets have only 15 leadership, that's barely two more than Italy began with (albeit in 1.1c). :eek:
 
Stuyvesant: Admittedly it's a little bit daunting, but then a lot of things about HOI3 are like that (there are so many provinces!:wacko:). I hope you can get some vicarious satisfaction this way.

dublish: After mulling it over I've decided to try it out. It may end up being a mistake but building factories is just too ingrained into my mindset. We'll see if it pays off.

Van Diemen: I've just looked at your mod and it looks like you've made a lot of good improvements. Haven't decided yet whether to use it this time, as it would require starting over, but I'll definitely be using it for whatever my next game is.

ComTrav: You bring up an interesting point that I hadn't put much thought into. It just goes to show that I've yet to adjust my mindset to the particulars of the new research system. Initially I opt for an IC heavy course but I might have to partially reconsider this and make room for at least a minimal armor build.

loki100: I'm tempted to make the switch right now, I just don't have a lot of time to play so I'm reluctant to start over. I imagine it's not save game compatible, right?

cthulhu: Welcome, great old one!:)

Myth: Yup, the eastern front to be feels absolutely gigantic. I'm thankful in a way that the AI will be handling the nitty-gritty of combat as worrying about all those provinces would probably drive me to distraction.
 
Plans for 1936

NOTE: Pics will be coming as soon as I can find them. I thought that they'd be in the 'Screenshots' folder but I guess that was awfully naive of me to think it'd be that simple. If anyone can help me out I'd appreciate it.

Initial Production Orders

After some deliberation I decide to go with and industrial focus for my research and construction. As mentioned previously, I'm concerned about Germany's ability to outproduce me in '41/'42 and if that happens I feel that I'll lose. Therefore I must try and keep pace industrially, initially by building factories (which I'll place in the middle of the country, far, far away from any potential front line) and later by gobbling up small neighbors. This means I must hope for a historical M-R pact but I'll worry about that later on. I queue up five parallel runs or four factories, using 24.4 IC, which will boost my base score by 20 before the end of 1940. Now this is a fairly small order and I'm probably only hurting myself by doing half-assed like that. But I'm reluctant to invest too much of starting production capacity into industry as it will necessarily mean neglecting expanding and upgrading the army. So a small amount is put into upgrades with the lion's share being divided between my Consumer Goods and supply needs. On to research.

I begin with a meager 15 leadership points a day. This will never do so I immediately switch laws to a large education investment, pushing the total up to 16.5 a day. While not much better I'll take every little bit. Of those, 12 points go into research. The Soviets start with some nice land techs so I figure that just maybe, if I throw everything I've got at it, I can field a fairly modern army. If this comes down to the crunch I will focus on keeping the armored units as advanced as possible while switching to infantry focus to a more quantitative orientation. I split the 4.5 or so left over between officers and spies. Officers are the more necessary of the two but spies also have definite advantages. Besides being so cool ( I really like the new intel system, think it's a huge improvement over all) they can do some very useful things, like lowering your neutrality, raising other nations threat value, and boosting your national unity. Starting unity for the USSR is only 55%. Ideally of course this will never present a major problem as the Germans will never occupy enough territory to pose a real danger. But you never know. I'd be much happier if I could get unity above 80% by 1939. But with such a small investment in spies this will be difficult, and it means spying on other countries isn't going to be too fruitful.

Interestingly, the introduction of NU makes conducting the purges a whole lot more appealing than they were in HOI2. Previously I would never even have considered it, I would just take the dissent hit and laugh it off, then go back to counting my huge number of generals. But now, in exchange for shooting some Trotskyite scum I get 5 points of dissent and a 22 point unity boost. The decision for the purge can't be taken until 1937 but it's given me something to think about.

Diplomacy suffers to most from this intellectual shortage, receiving none of the Soviet Union's best or brightest. Sure, it's nice to waste points on trying to woo Republican Spain into the Comintern only to have them get annexed by Nationalist Spain or, worse yet, join the Allies. But I just don't feel I can justify the waste. Besides, why influence people with diplomacy when you can let your giant army do the talking for you. That's what the "Create Puppet" option if for.:cool: With the way threat works, I've probably doomed myself to a WWIII showdown with the Allies following the defeat of Germany but that's a little too far off to get worked up about.

Next update I'll cover initial research projects in more detail as well as political and intelligence tweaks. And hopefully screenshots.:rolleyes:
 
Vista I take it? Screenshots should be somewhere in your C:/user/<your user>/AppData, I do believe.

Industry focus seems like a good idea right now. Even at the earliest, you won't have a major war until 1939 or 1940 if not later, depending on when Germany invades you. Unless, of course, a minor DOW touches off a world war between you and someone else. That said, yeah go for industry. I'll save thought about techs for when you post about them. ;)
 
Vista I take it? Screenshots should be somewhere in your C:/user/<your user>/AppData, I do believe.

Industry focus seems like a good idea right now. Even at the earliest, you won't have a major war until 1939 or 1940 if not later, depending on when Germany invades you. Unless, of course, a minor DOW touches off a world war between you and someone else. That said, yeah go for industry. I'll save thought about techs for when you post about them. ;)

Yeah, Vista x64. How could you tell? It's almost as if you associate stupid, counter-intuitive mechanics and general poor design with Windows!:eek: But no, surely it was just a lucky guess.:p
 
Starting Formations

I'm going to register to this thread to at least voice another opinion. Sometimes Stalin listened, and sometimes he didn't. Sometimes his advisors were shot too, so I realize I'm going out on a limb here.

I understand the desire to build industry if playing Italy, Japan, or China. Even Germany, with all it's excess capacity may build a factory or two while waiting for the necessary techs to built transports and the like. But, not Russia, at least, not at this particular stage.

I'm much more of a tactician, and looking at starting positions of the '36 scenerio I am most displeased. Their are adequate numbers of divisions and HQ's, but few are stationed anywhere close to necessary starting positions. Also, organization of the Army and especially the officer corps is wretched. No need to build additional HQ's, but sorting them out and getting them all organized is a major chore.

I like the new color-coded terrain charts, and can better see where the divisions need to be. There are wide open plains on the Moscow, Southwestern, and Southern fronts, and here is where I'd place mechanized infantry and armored corps. The marshes in the Western front need large infantry formations, as well the forests of the Baltic front. I'm particular to using mountain troops in forested areas, and since there's no need to defend the Turkish border anytime soon it's a waste to keep so many good divisions down there. On the Finish border, I like armored formations both in the far north and on the Leningrad front. In the forested regions between I'd mass infantry formations with one corps of mountain troops as a spearhead.

I recommennd one corps in each region on the border of the European front, though some regions may require more than one depending on terrain (can't figure on coming to another's aid in the marshes). Once this is done there should be a number of corps left over, and these can be divided somewhat equally into separate armies to be stationed in the rear as reserves on each of the Baltic, Moscow, Western, South Western, and Southern fronts.

The next step is filling out the corps and divisions with "stuff," and building more and more armored divisions to bring the mechanized corps up to full strength.

I'm not saying don't build industry, but I can think of so many other things that are needed at this stage.
 
Personally, I have yet to build a factory (*cough* in one-and-a-half games played *cough*), preferring to increase my IC and resource efficiency, but since that takes leadership, I guess the brute force approach of IC construction will have to do. Plus, it fits much better with the Five Year Plan approach - more of the same is always better than the same in higher quality. ;)

Bring on the Purges, I say!
 
Officers are the more necessary of the two but spies also have definite advantages. Besides being so cool ( I really like the new intel system, think it's a huge improvement over all) they can do some very useful things, like lowering your neutrality, raising other nations threat value, and boosting your national unity. Starting unity for the USSR is only 55%. Ideally of course this will never present a major problem as the Germans will never occupy enough territory to pose a real danger. But you never know. I'd be much happier if I could get unity above 80% by 1939. But with such a small investment in spies this will be difficult, and it means spying on other countries isn't going to be too fruitful.

I've actually become very disillusioned with the intelligence system. Sure, it's nice to lower your neutrality, but God forbid you want to lower your neutrality and keep foreign spies from messing up your research at the same time. And any foreign spying you do is prioritized by alphabetical order in each of the three levels available. Really annoying if you want to spy on more than 3 countries (not that you'll ever get 10 spies into another country anyway).
 
Personally, I have yet to build a factory (*cough* in one-and-a-half games played *cough*), preferring to increase my IC and resource efficiency, but since that takes leadership, I guess the brute force approach of IC construction will have to do. Plus, it fits much better with the Five Year Plan approach - more of the same is always better than the same in higher quality

if you do the maths, you get so much more out of the various mobilisation decisions than you could ever build, but as with so much to do with the USSR, 'quantity is its own quality'.

My instinct is so far with HOI3, there is no consensus around this. Partly as so few people have played far enough to see their pre-war decisions pay off (or blow up in their faces) and partly as each game of HOI3 will be more different. I think Myth is right - you have to plan on the possibility of a general war kicking off any time from 1938 onwards. You just can't risk the rather formalised HOI2 approach, even less the more gamey - disband the army - variants on that.

Its interesting there are 3 USSR AARs on the go, and each is opting to try to solve these issues in a different way.
 
Re: Van Dieman's map - I changed after start up and had no problems -- but hence my rather odd post about Kiev going walkies. As long as you're not too committed, I'd try it, (just save the 1.2 files to a sep directory). It just feels so much better.