Work Items for Volunteer Developers

[Lor Dric]

FYI after I made my ship-stacking fix I realized another fix that should also be done is to make it so that AI-AI battles do not record the battle. A WHOLE LOT of turn-processing time is spent recording battles between mega-sized AI fleets, none of which is used for anything. Once you turn your eye in that direction, I suggest you if() away the recordings (but leave the stubs since the AI does use the information in the stubs--ie record that a battle took place and maybe record the first and last frame but dont record the frames in between) if a Player is not involved in the battle.

Vote: Should we check into turning this off?? I can see it's use in comparing different races ships and maybe for AARs.

[Lor Dric]

I think the equipment slot in the scout should stay; it lends more flexibility to the scout, especially if we're going to fix the AI's ability to use shields. Without an equipment slot, you can't put shields (or any other equipment) into the scout. Is the idea to limit other equipment from being used in the scout? If so, perhaps the limit could be accomplished by adjusting the size of specific equipment.

Anybody else?? Vote now

[Lor Dric]

Agreed. Just because the game *allows* big fleets and big galaxies, doesn't mean that in order to make them "work" the smaller games should suffer in some way. Even because the bigger games also start out as a smaller game

Ok makes sense, there are other ways.

[Lor Dric]

At that point, you're not playing a strategy game anymore IMO. You're just going through the motions.

Depends on whether you have burned through the techtree already and if diplomacy worked proper that would help make the game more interesting.
If the galaxy is large enough you wouldn't meet all the races for a long time. Making for long term relations with some races, you could make this part very interesting. Yes??
We will probably spend most of our time working on diplomacy, after some other stuff gets fixed.
Doesn't matter what games I have played, the game either works or it doesn't, and the game is either fun or it isn't. Pretty cut and dried stuff.
It's up to us to make it work and make it fun!!! The more minds we could get to work on this the better.

Is your game stock?? Mine is, yours needs to be as well.

[Lor Dric]

My mysteries file is it ok to use?? Vote now

[.Iceman]

Vote: Should we check into turning this off?? I can see it's use in comparing different races ships and maybe for AARs.

The ideal IMO would be make it an option that you can turn on/off at any time during a game. So that you could leave it on in the early game if you wish so, and disable it late game to get better peformance.

Depends on whether you have burned through the techtree already and if diplomacy worked proper that would help make the game more interesting.
If the galaxy is large enough you wouldn't meet all the races for a long time. Making for long term relations with some races, you could make this part very interesting. Yes??

Burning through the techtree doesn't really have much to do with galaxy size - and I mean 2k vs 5k, and 5k vs 50k. There shouldn't be too much difference unless you chose a very small galaxy with the players close together.
Also, even if diplomay was working properly, longer relations have little impact in the game. So longer games are not much different than shorter ones - in that respect.
Not meeting the other races for a LOOOOONNNG time is plain boring, not really interesting. Part of the game is the interaction between the races. The battles will also be high tech, brutal engagements; no early battles, which can also be interesting.
Just my opinion though.

Doesn't matter what games I have played, the game either works or it doesn't, and the game is either fun or it isn't.

You're working on a game for *other* players, not yourself - that's what I alerted for a few days back. Most of the people here are *probably* 4X players, maybe looking for a MoO fix/improvement. You can't ignore that, and do things your way. That's what your mod is for. Like mine.

It's up to us to make it work and make it fun!!!

Careful with the wording. The game has some problems, but it works. And it is fun. You make i sound like it isn't. We might think our mods are better, but that's just our opinions. We're not doing this for ourselves - that, we have done in our mods. The main focus should be fixes, so that the game works better, and consequently our mods too.

Is your game stock?? Mine is, yours needs to be as well.

Mine is as much as it can be, being modded. I only play stock galaxies - I've deleted every galaxy that wasn't stock from my game. I've also emoved the Nebulae, since their modifiers are just stacking with stuff already in the game - IMO they should have affected some more interesting stuff like fuel range, scanner range, ship speed, etc - stuff that you would *normally* expect to see affected by nebulae.
Also, I didn't change any gfx or anything else, just values. So, yes, my mod is pretty much stock, with a different feel and focus.

[montfort94]

I want to play this game so badly now. Stupid computer is broken.

What exactly is 2k, 5k, and all those other ones? Like, what do they stand for?

[SpaceSloth]

Vote: Should we check into turning this off?? I can see it's use in comparing different races ships and maybe for AARs.

I think .Iceman has the right idea: make it an option to turn on or off. That way it can be used when the player wants (such as for comparing different races' ships or making AARs) yet can be turned off when needed to prevent taking up too much turn-processing time.

[.Iceman]

What exactly is 2k, 5k, and all those other ones? Like, what do they stand for?

I meant the size of the galaxy, 2000 stars, 5000, etc.

[.Iceman]

That way it can be used when the player wants (such as for comparing different races' ships or making AARs)

Regarding comparing races' ships, if it's info you shouldn't have (you don't have updated intel on the race) there shouldn't even be such a possibility...

[SpaceSloth]

My mysteries file is it ok to use?? Vote now

I agree that the nebulae could be toned down from their original percentages & sizes, but maybe not as much as you are proposing in your files. After all, the player has the option of turning them on or off, so maybe their effects could be a little greater.
I personally haven't seen that the nebulae have unbalanced the game, but just added a little more variety.

[SpaceSloth]

Regarding comparing races' ships, if it's info you shouldn't have (you don't have updated intel on the race) there shouldn't even be such a possibility...

I'm not advocating "cheating" (didn't we have a discussion about this in another thread?). I'm just agreeing with you about making it an option to turn on or off.

[.Iceman]

Sorry, I was just warning about "illegal" info as another argument in favor of turning off AI-AI battles. I was merely picking up on the comparing ships argument.
There can be situaions where you could get the info though, like alliances/pacts for example.

As fro the nebulae, I agree that low numbers are all but inconsequential. There could be an option in the game's options screen to disable them - though there's alsready a Nebulae option to disable the *fluff* nebulae from the original game.

---

A couple more things:

- the AI doesn't use diplomacy, that should be fixed
- I suggeste removing the default scanners that were added to ships close to release (or at least a way to disable them in MISC); they just about make the Scanner *components* all but useless for most ships
- revert back to the food slider NOT affecting birth rate (bman addition), as that's a trap for the AI
- revert the Ion Cannon's range (and energy weapons) back to the release value(s), because of the Star Base's range modifier

[Lor Dric]

I think .Iceman has the right idea: make it an option to turn on or off. That way it can be used when the player wants (such as for comparing different races' ships or making AARs) yet can be turned off when needed to prevent taking up too much turn-processing time.

It will get turned off.
We won't use my mysteries file. Will leave it as it is.

[Lor Dric]

You're working on a game for *other* players, not yourself - that's what I alerted for a few days back. Most of the people here are *probably* 4X players, maybe looking for a MoO fix/improvement. You can't ignore that, and do things your way. That's what your mod is for. Like mine.

Thats what this thread is for, if I can't get any opinions on something then there is only my thoughts on something. You and SpaceSloth are getting your say and I'm listening, Yes?? Not doing things my way.
Don't expect everything to be able to be turned on and off.
I'm not hearing much from all these 4x players, just 3 of us.
If this game works, then what am I doing here?? Oh! its because people say "Shit! LEI is broken."
If you gave away copies of this you would find not many people want it even for free.
Diplomacy doesn't work, takes a lot away doesn't it??

[Lor Dric]

Description: The History meter position in the Diplomacy screen is not stored in saved games.

Description: The Corruption (Distance) government modifier is not working properly (a red mod is a bonus, not a penalty).

Description: The GarbageConsumers racial ability, when changed in the Game.xls file, does not work correctly (setting it to 70% actually means consuming 30% food).

Description: The percentToObtain value in the DATA_Victory worksheet of the Game Excel workbook is disregarded and a hard-coded 60% value is used instead.

Description: The Colonize fleet order should only be available if the fleet contains at least one colony ship equipped with a Colonization Module.

Description: The Invade System order should only be available if the fleet actually has a ship with a MAM and some battalions.

I think after those things are fixed, diplomacy needs an overhaul.


These are the only things that are ok'd for change everything else is just discussion at the moment.

[bman654]

I definately recommend trying to resist putting *significant* gameplay changes into the "stock" patches and reserve those sorts of things for a mod. There are lots of people that like the game the way it is, but wouldn't mind bugfixes, UI improvements, AI improvements, functioning diplomacy, etc. The diplomacy AI pretty much needs a complete re-write to be functional. I only took one pass through the diplomacy code and fixed the most disasterous of the bugs but it is still very much a logic nightmare. Plus I think Iceman has a big list of bugs related to diplomacy that are unrelated to the AI. It's a big task, but probably the biggest gameplay hole in the game right now.

[Lor Dric]

I definately recommend trying to resist putting *significant* gameplay changes into the "stock" patches and reserve those sorts of things for a mod. There are lots of people that like the game the way it is, but wouldn't mind bugfixes, UI improvements, AI improvements, functioning diplomacy, etc. The diplomacy AI pretty much needs a complete re-write to be functional. I only took one pass through the diplomacy code and fixed the most disasterous of the bugs but it is still very much a logic nightmare. Plus I think Iceman has a big list of bugs related to diplomacy that are unrelated to the AI. It's a big task, but probably the biggest gameplay hole in the game right now.

What's everybody worried about, Me, .Iceman, and Paradox all have to OK changes that are decided upon by the majority of players to be put forth as possible changes. With bman we now have 4 voices to count as players. I see nothing major that has been OK'd for change.

[.Iceman]

It's just the way that you put things. Sounds like you're a bit too eager to change things just because - like I told you when you started your mod
The game mostly works ok. There are still a few bugs, and that's what should be addressed. Some balance issues, and that should be addressed too. Diplomacy is not working properly, and that should be addressed too, but we shouldn't make a big deal out of it - the game isn't broken because of it, I wonder how many people actually notice it or will actually use it properly. Same with MP, doesn't work, but how many people will actually use it - I know there are a few, but it shouldn't be *the* priority IMO.
It's true there aren't many people participating in this thread, but they're around. The game is hardly broken too - again, needing a few fixes. It's still a lot of fun. You are here to fix those issues, not to "rewrite" the game. The original spirit of the game should be kept.

As for turning things on and off, one of the real strengths of this game is its customization potential. And the particular situation I mentioned, ships scanners, do you actually put scanners (the components) in ships/scouts? The first thing I do in a game is to redesign the scout so that it doesn't have any scanners; it's cheaper, and still scans.

[Anguille]

I agree with Iceman...

Priority should be done on what is "not" working as intended.

Major Modifications should go into mods.

Cheers