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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Suggestions

    Please make all of your suggestions here. Thanks for telling us what you think Feel free to complain also, but please do it in a nice way.

    I tend to be stubborn and picky but I do enjoy hearing suggestions. I do use suggestions for the mod sometimes

    here are some things I am not going to do:
    • -add provinces with the only reason being to increase manpower, base tax, or represent a city. I only allow more provinces if they add historic, important, strategic value like islands, or if its the only way to get a new nation into the game that existed during the timeframe.
    • -add nations that add little or no game value and can be represented on a broader scale. for example, free cities, allied native tribes, and some non-autonomous vassals.
    • -I will not be allowing the timeline to go past 1899. Air planes, missles, tanks, and other technologies are simply not very workable into the game engine.
    • -the start date will not be any earlier than when CK ends and that will only happen if there is a lot of people helping to update the earlier history for the mod (it will stay 1399 until then).
    Last edited by Darken; 30-08-2009 at 18:54.

  2. #2
    Dei Gratia author dharper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    TN 4.22 beta is released. this will not adress the many NAx issues assosiated with the AI creating huge armies and navies. i have tried to adress these Nappy bugs but i cannot fix it in a satisfactory manner. these issues due to AI army/navy include: low worldwide tech levels, high AI inflation, and of course, huge AI navies and armies.
    I know it's a little trite, but you could always add in an AI bonus to inflation reduction and tech speed in the difficulty level modifiers. I haven't played enough of NA to get an idea of how much the AI lags behind the player, but it may be the only thing you can do without having control of the AI's strategies.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by dharper
    I know it's a little trite, but you could always add in an AI bonus to inflation reduction and tech speed in the difficulty level modifiers. I haven't played enough of NA to get an idea of how much the AI lags behind the player, but it may be the only thing you can do without having control of the AI's strategies.
    thank you for your ideas

    i think the AI tech levels are about half as high as they used to be on average. thats a good idea about the difficulty settings. i have tried to use triggered modifiers to reduce manpower by 50% and morale (which does nothing realy, the AI just uses mercs or somehow still has huge armies). i did try tech cost reductions in religions which did work but i took out those fixes due to the hope that the next patch will fix this. i did not mess with inflation, but your idea would certainly work as i have done this with the pagans. the main problem is that the AI has to mint by 50% or higher to be able to afford thier armies/navies. so realy it is not a minting problem but it boils down to the huge maintenance costs of having tons of units. So i guess in thoery, i could fix everything but the huge armies and navies of the AI but because that alone was the root of the problem, i gave up and am hoping it will be fixed in the next patch. it should not be hard for Pdox to fix this issue i believe. it is probably something to do with the AI trying to achieve a unattainable army and navy size which causes them to endlessly make more.

  4. #4
    Banned jadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    i have included a modified version of MM spanish formation events and also many of my own events for Spain/Castille so that would be a interesting choice for Europe. There is many events in TN that effect every European country (and others) but other than Spain, there is not a focus on a single European nation for events. It can be fun to colonize the Americas now with all of the editional nations and see which ones convert religions, governments or tech group. also, just a tip, try to get the Yucatan province, it opens up some interesting trade good events. Slave provinces give events also (and not the Nappy ones, they went bye bye). Buccaneers are a VERY different kind of play style if you play them.

    Edit: also i forgot to mention that I completely replaced vanilla colonial nation revolt events. so that will also be a interesting time period (1750+).
    Thanks!
    I've seen amongst the features the deflation events given to pagans, but dont you think there should be such events for all nations? Maybe lower chance for higher techgroups, but there should be as it is quite hard (or almost impossible) for a non-latin country to manage inflation and it would also help the AI to deal with it.
    What do you think?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jadam
    Thanks!
    I've seen amongst the features the deflation events given to pagans, but dont you think there should be such events for all nations? Maybe lower chance for higher techgroups, but there should be as it is quite hard (or almost impossible) for a non-latin country to manage inflation and it would also help the AI to deal with it.
    What do you think?
    well, for pagans i have -2.0 inflation bonus in the religions which is the equivalant of many tax assesors but i did not think much about this for non-pagans (i will now though). Also in my attempts to deal with the high AI inflation in Nappy i have removed almost every event that gives inflation but i intend on adding events of my own for inflation when the patch comes out. even the bankruptcy event no longer gives inflation (but it will after patch). i do agree that inflation is hard to manage and in my games i have gotten up to 10% before getting tax accessors to get it back down to 0. i think Nappy includes a few deflation events which i did not remove.

    So, in summary, i do intend on dealing with this issue but i need to see what the patch is going to adress. I want inflation to be a challange but something that any nation can keep down (or low) if they want to. I will probably modify the Nappy deflation events to meet this goal in a manner that gives a chance for all non-pagans to deflate. if you have further ideas for me i would like to hear them. thank you for your input, i apreciate it.

  6. #6
    For now my only idea is to remove a lot of the PTI in North America. All that PTI in the Rockies and Canada really bugs me.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shibito
    For now my only idea is to remove a lot of the PTI in North America. All that PTI in the Rockies and Canada really bugs me.
    It bugs me too but unfortunately map modding is hard and I have not done it yet. It would probably take me weeks to get a decent map made if not longer I may eventualy use a Map made by somebody else

  8. #8
    A whole world, a whole world .... That would be

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Lady
    A whole world, a whole world .... That would be
    Yeah, or at least less PTI I understand having the amazon jungle PTI, or some remote swamps in africa, and most of canadian are, but all of the USA region should be visible along with more of australia and africa etc...

    the biggest annoyance with adding a new map to TN is having to add all the provinces to all the apropriate events,adjecencies,continents files...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    Yeah, or at least less PTI I understand having the amazon jungle PTI, or some remote swamps in africa, and most of canadian are, but all of the USA region should be visible along with more of australia and africa etc...

    the biggest annoyance with adding a new map to TN is having to add all the provinces to all the apropriate events,adjecencies,continents files...
    Agreed.
    Perhaps the Australian deserts are also justified PTIs, but it's true that having some more provinces in America/USA would be nice.

  11. #11
    Publicly Certified 17blue17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    It bugs me too but unfortunately map modding is hard and I have not done it yet. It would probably take me weeks to get a decent map made if not longer I may eventualy use a Map made by somebody else
    I have a map I have been working on. I just spent the last 3 days removing almost all the PTI for North America (left far north canada and alaska). Also connected the great lakes to the atlantic. For North America I made the provinces match current state outlines but I tried to break each state into say 3 or 4 provinces. If you are familar with a map of western USA and Canada this means alot of straight lines.

    The map also adds alot of provinces to scotland, england, france, spain, netherlands, italy, west africa gold coast area, east africa (pti removed), india and a couple in germany. The problem is while I understand how to change the map I don't understand how to post images or files on the internet. I have the map working including all the files to run a full mod. At this point (Darken only please) if you are interested in having me email you some jpg screen shots of the map from the scenario editor please PM me with your email address. If you like what you see then maybe you can help me figure a way to send you all the files at which point you can simply load it up in the scenario editor and edit the various provinces to your liking (this may take some work on your part as I have changed a lot of province populations, added forts etc but compared to building a new map this kind of editing is easy. If you are not interested at this time - that is ok.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 17blue17
    I have a map I have been working on. I just spent the last 3 days removing almost all the PTI for North America (left far north canada and alaska). Also connected the great lakes to the atlantic. For North America I made the provinces match current state outlines but I tried to break each state into say 3 or 4 provinces. If you are familar with a map of western USA and Canada this means alot of straight lines.

    The map also adds alot of provinces to scotland, england, france, spain, netherlands, italy, west africa gold coast area, east africa (pti removed), india and a couple in germany. The problem is while I understand how to change the map I don't understand how to post images or files on the internet. I have the map working including all the files to run a full mod. At this point (Darken only please) if you are interested in having me email you some jpg screen shots of the map from the scenario editor please PM me with your email address. If you like what you see then maybe you can help me figure a way to send you all the files at which point you can simply load it up in the scenario editor and edit the various provinces to your liking (this may take some work on your part as I have changed a lot of province populations, added forts etc but compared to building a new map this kind of editing is easy. If you are not interested at this time - that is ok.
    Thats awesome . Thank you for considering me for using your Map for Terra Nova Mod.

    I will PM you my email adress. I use filefront (http://signup.filefront.com/1/0/8///) to host my mod files and screenshots. It is free and they keep track of downloads. You can either email me or make a account there. Either way is fine with me, whatever you are most comfortable with.

    I am interested but I have a few concerns.

    Great Lakes - Atlantic:
    So provinces next to the great lakes are considered to be next to the sea? Will there be ports? I am not sure exactly what you meant here. I am also concerned about the historical aspects of changes like this.

    vanilla provinces names/history:
    I would like to keep the current vanilla province names as they are whenever possible. I also will probably not want to change any TN province history for vanilla provinces other than populations (if they all can be made mroe accurate to pre-plague levels). I have changed most new world and many african province histories.

    vanilla province changes:
    perhaps my greatest concern is the changing of vanilla provinces. If the vanilla province numbers or geographic location changes then that means I would have to change the current TN history/province/ files. So, I guess my question is, how many province history files would I have to change in TN? I have changed almost every new world province history file already . Also, any vanilla province change would require me to change many of my events for each province .

    New provinces:
    How many total provinces is there now on your map? I think Gigau (or somebody) found that there is a maximum allowed of 2008 provinces or so.

    Province populations:
    Did you change these populations to a more accurate historical level? I currently have a emulation system that simulates pagan populations before the plagues and events that simulate the plagues. If all of the new world populations were more accurate to a pre-plague level then I could actualy make real plague events like what hits the europeans. My main concern here is that I would need all of the TN pagan nations fixed to a more accurate level because I dont realy want to have one nation accurate and one nation at a vanilla population state (not accurate).

    Sengoku mod:
    How hard would it be to incorporate the Japanese part of the map that Sakura made? he added 5 or 6 new provinces in Japan. Because I still use his mod content, I would like to go back to his better Japan version of the map If I use a non-vanilla map. What I mean here is that I would love to see Sakura's Japan included with your map also.


    Anyway, let me know what you think. Maybe we can get a better map made eventualy for TN . I would of course mention you in the special thanks section and the manual. I have always wanted to work alone but the one thing I do not want to do is map modding. So, because of this, If the map modding process will be a ongoing thing with this map for TN, perhaps I can name you as the official TN map modder if we both like the idea . Or you could perhaps release your map as a stand-alone mod and I can use it that way.
    Last edited by Darken; 03-02-2008 at 08:55.
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  13. #13
    That sounds like a great map blue and if for some reason Darken can't use it you could always release it just as a new map or mod?

  14. #14
    Field Marshal spl's Avatar
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    You could always....use the Gigau....

  15. #15
    Publicly Certified 17blue17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    Thats awesome . Thank you for considering me for using your Map for Terra Nova Mod.

    I am interested but I have a few concerns.

    Great Lakes - Atlantic:
    So provinces next to the great lakes are considered to be next to the sea? Will there be ports? I am not sure exactly what you meant here. I am also concerned about the historical aspects of changes like this.
    I added the st lawrence sea way to connect the atlantic to lake Ontario and then made sure all the great lakes were connected. From a historical point of view did not explorers travel this route and were there not naval battles on the great lakes? Yes I understand that they could not just sail all the way but from a game prospective this makes things maybe more historical compared to having the AI never travel in this direction. Can be easily removed by me if you end up using the map. Yes I added ports. I also added the suez canal but again it is fairly simple for me to remove for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darken

    vanilla provinces names/history:
    I would like to keep the current vanilla province names as they are whenever possible. I also will probably not want to change any TN province history for vanilla provinces other than populations (if they all can be made mroe accurate to pre-plague levels). I have changed most new world and many african province histories.

    vanilla province changes:
    perhaps my greatest concern is the changing of vanilla provinces. If the vanilla province numbers or geographic location changes then that means I would have to change the current TN history/province/ files. So, I guess my question is, how many province history files would I have to change in TN? I have changed almost every new world province history file already . Also, any vanilla province change would require me to change many of my events for each province .
    I tried to leave existing province numbers the same so in theory you could replace my province files with your own except for the new provinces I added which you would then need to modify.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darken

    New provinces:
    How many total provinces is there now on your map? I think Gigau (or somebody) found that there is a maximum allowed of 2008 provinces or so.
    Currently there are 1974 total provinces

    Quote Originally Posted by Darken

    Sengoku mod:
    How hard would it be to incorporate the Japanese part of the map that Sakura made? he added 5 or 6 new provinces in Japan. Because I still use his mod content, I would like to go back to his better Japan version of the map If I use a non-vanilla map. What I mean here is that I would love to see Sakura's Japan included with your map also.
    I started with the MM map which included the extra provinces in Japan then added a lot more provinces around the world including removing PTI.

    At this point I have built this as part of my own personal mod for my own enjoyment. I am not sure I want to release the whole as a mod to the forum as there is a lot of work keeping a mod going as you know. I am willing to help you or MM use the map in your mods. I sent several jpg files of the map so you can see if you like the idea or not.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 17blue17
    I added the st lawrence sea way to connect the atlantic to lake Ontario and then made sure all the great lakes were connected. From a historical point of view did not explorers travel this route and were there not naval battles on the great lakes? Yes I understand that they could not just sail all the way but from a game prospective this makes things maybe more historical compared to having the AI never travel in this direction. Can be easily removed by me if you end up using the map. Yes I added ports. I also added the suez canal but again it is fairly simple for me to remove for you.
    If the atlantic-great lakes connection is historical that I would like to keep/add it. However, the suez canal was not in the EU3 time period so i dont want to use that.

    Quote Originally Posted by 17blue17
    I started with the MM map which included the extra provinces in Japan then added a lot more provinces around the world including removing PTI.
    cool, this is good

    Quote Originally Posted by 17blue17
    At this point I have built this as part of my own personal mod for my own enjoyment. I am not sure I want to release the whole as a mod to the forum as there is a lot of work keeping a mod going as you know. I am willing to help you or MM use the map in your mods. I sent several jpg files of the map so you can see if you like the idea or not.
    I completely understand



    After looking at the screenshots I have some more concerns. I am very picky so I apologize. You have done some very good work here. I mean no disrespect with my pickyness and I apreciate your offer for me to use your map in TN

    How much of canada was uninhabitable in the eu3 time period (for thier technology)? If there was big parts that are not inhabitable (historicly) for the time period, I think it would be best to keep some PTI in canada. Maybe some PTI in the north american deserts if indeed they were not historicly habitable (but I think they were, even the nevada deserts probably had natives right?).

    I think that for TN (which unfortunately is subject to my pickyness), It would be best to not add more provinces in already visible non-PTI areas. I know that much of the vanilla map is flawed. Inca territory for example and Japan are very flawed in vanilla. I can however manage these flaws. It would take
    500 to 600 man hours IMO just to make a completely historic/logical map and accurate province data. Therefore I have chosen to leave populations and provinces vanilla so far. For me, it is all or nothing. I dont see any real use for fixing african provinces but leaving Inca SA provinces vanilla. I am somewhat hipocritical I guess because I do want to use Sakura's Japan map (makes the mod much better) but in other examples, changing africa or Inca provinces does not realy have a big impact in gameplay IMO.

    The many hours it would take me to convert my events and province history realy makes me cautious of maps that change vanilla provinces. However, I do want a Sakura japan map (Japan is 10% of TN focus), less (but historical) PTI, and new provinces for the removed PTI areas. Perhaps fixed provinces in Inca vanilla area only (because that is 10% of the TN focus). Any changes other than these realy scare me because of the hours of work involved.

    ##
    EDIT: disregard this paraghraph for now. Because you are makes the transition easier for me and may be able to work with me to make the transition easier, i will still be considering this map. I will soon test your map and let you know.##
    At this point it may be best to say that this map is too complex for a one-man mod that is already set with a vanilla map as the foundation. I think I will wait for somebody to make a map with less changes that meet most of my needs (if that ever happens). I will most likely never have the time to make a map because my 'to do' list rarely gets smaller lol.

    Thank you again for offering your map. please do not be offended or fustrated, I am very picky and am trying to save us both time and fustration .
    Last edited by Darken; 04-02-2008 at 01:12.

  17. #17
    disregard the last post for now. Because you are making the transition easier for me and may be able to work with me to make the transition easier, i will still be considering this map. I will soon test your map and let you know.

  18. #18
    Publicly Certified 17blue17's Avatar
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    Just to clarify some things

    1) vanilla land provinces are not modified in the map or file I uploaded. Yes I did mod them for myself but I put everything back to vanilla for the file I uploaded. Sea provinces have to be renumbered for any new map as Paradox requires sea provinces to be numbered after land provinces. You can't just add new provinces to the bottom of the list like in EU2.

    2) the new provinces are available for use but don't have to be. In other words they can still be undiscovered PTI. You control this in the province history files.

    3) More PTI can be removed in the future - I just have not done it yet.

    4) I don't mind if you don't use the map - I just wanted to offer something back to the community as I have used so much for my own mod. When I saw your posts about wishing for a new map with less PTI I thought I should offer what I had. I had some extra time, I made the map for myself, and it was fun learning how to post a file at file front - so nothing lost on my end.

    Best of Luck

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 17blue17
    1) vanilla land provinces are not modified in the map or file I uploaded. Yes I did mod them for myself but I put everything back to vanilla for the file I uploaded. Sea provinces have to be renumbered for any new map as Paradox requires sea provinces to be numbered after land provinces. You can't just add new provinces to the bottom of the list like in EU2.

    2) the new provinces are available for use but don't have to be. In other words they can still be undiscovered PTI. You control this in the province history files.
    Sea provinces will be easy to change in TN because there is little or no referance in TN to sea provinces
    So, does this mean that if I use your map, but do not place any new provinces in the history/province folder, then the map will basicly be vanilla? So in thoery I could just add your new PTI based provinces and then the PTI will be gone and the new provinces will be available in the game?

    Quote Originally Posted by 17blue17
    4) I don't mind if you don't use the map - I just wanted to offer something back to the community as I have used so much for my own mod. When I saw your posts about wishing for a new map with less PTI I thought I should offer what I had. I had some extra time, I made the map for myself, and it was fun learning how to post a file at file front - so nothing lost on my end.
    cool

  20. #20
    Publicly Certified 17blue17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darken
    Sea provinces will be easy to change in TN because there is little or no referance in TN to sea provinces
    So, does this mean that if I use your map, but do not place any new provinces in the history/province folder, then the map will basicly be vanilla? So in thoery I could just add your new PTI based provinces and then the PTI will be gone and the new provinces will be available in the game?



    cool
    All the provinces on the map need to be in the game and history files (they are already there with empty files in the download ) for it not to crash but they don't have to be discovered by anyone. It would be best to make them natives as opposed to empty province files I think as an explorer could discover them. This would work for example with canada but it would not be practical for say europe as you would not want so much un discovered PTI.

    For my own information - if I was to remove the PTI from South America and add some provinces for the Inca what would I add? Do you have a map or drawing of what should be done? I have room for 32 or so more provinces world wide and if needed I could always combine some in NE Asia to free up some slots. I am good with changing the map - except coast lines and lakes - don't really know how to do that very well.

    If all you really want is vanilla with some new provinces in south america I could take vanilla and just do that as that would be fairly easy as compared with me adding a bunch of permanent pti back to my map or removing a bunch of provinces. I could also take MM which includes Japan and then just modify South America. Not really interested in redoing North America again at this time.

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