Megathread : Military Aspects of Victoria 2
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Perhaps if there was a smaller "garrison" unit for this purpose, max 3 - 5 000 men in size? That way you wouldn't have to add an additional layer of complexity, you'd still have cheap and understrength troops for stationing in British Fuzzywuzzyland or some remote tropical island archipelago, and you'd still have proper armies for proper big wars.
would it not be better to have ww1 and ww2 in like the hoi series, and the dopl and economic set-up in the vicroria and eu games
I also think a brigade system would be appropriate due to the colonial nature of most of the wars of the time. I think people get too hung up on the bigger wars (ie. WWI, ACW, Franco-Prussian war, Crimea, etc) and don't put much thought into what the precursors to those wars were.
The era was primarily imperialistic and many wars were fought far away from civilisation by a small core of regulars supported by native troops. I second a realistic attrition model too, how else could Italy's utter humiliation by Ethiopia in 1896, Custer's last stand or the defeat at Isandlwana be modelled.
The era was primarily imperialistic and many wars were fought far away from civilisation by a small core of regulars supported by native troops. I second a realistic attrition model too, how else could Italy's utter humiliation by Ethiopia in 1896, Custer's last stand or the defeat at Isandlwana be modelled.
I think that WW1 should be in Vicky, if the circumstances are correct. It was the culmination of European tension during the long 19th century, and as such deserves a place within the game.
A suggestion about army models
One of the things I liked about Victoria was how your armies were represented by groups of soldiers rather than a single man. The six men marching in lockstep weren't only a great addition to the atmosphere of the game, but also represented the military spirit of the era well.
Basically, I'd like to see this cosmetic feature again in Victoria 2. I understand that it's a lot harder to do with the smaller size of provinces and the use of 3d models rather than sprites, but I know that a solution is possible, and would be willing to sacrifice a great deal of detail for mass, as was done in the first game. The appearance of army models may seem unimportant, but when you're working with a game that's primarily played through a map, text boxes, and charts what graphics there are gain importance, so I hope you'll take this suggestion seriously. I'm saying it now, because hopefully at this point you won't have committed to another graphical style yet.
On a side note, I also like the sounds that played in the original game on selecting or issuing move orders to infantry and cavalry divisions, and would like to see them return in some form if possible.
For people who want to comment, please don't just say that this is unimportant or that you don't care about this detail. That won't contribute to anything, except maybe getting this thread locked.
One of the things I liked about Victoria was how your armies were represented by groups of soldiers rather than a single man. The six men marching in lockstep weren't only a great addition to the atmosphere of the game, but also represented the military spirit of the era well.
Basically, I'd like to see this cosmetic feature again in Victoria 2. I understand that it's a lot harder to do with the smaller size of provinces and the use of 3d models rather than sprites, but I know that a solution is possible, and would be willing to sacrifice a great deal of detail for mass, as was done in the first game. The appearance of army models may seem unimportant, but when you're working with a game that's primarily played through a map, text boxes, and charts what graphics there are gain importance, so I hope you'll take this suggestion seriously. I'm saying it now, because hopefully at this point you won't have committed to another graphical style yet.
On a side note, I also like the sounds that played in the original game on selecting or issuing move orders to infantry and cavalry divisions, and would like to see them return in some form if possible.
For people who want to comment, please don't just say that this is unimportant or that you don't care about this detail. That won't contribute to anything, except maybe getting this thread locked.
I agree with you, the sprites (or whatever they will be called) should have two rows of three men each, or something similar.
I think it would be nice to gradually change throughout the game so that they are not in line formation by WW1, mind.
I'd like rebels to look more like unruly mobs (except when they are a more organized type of rebel) and pre-industrial armies to look more like warrior bands.
Generals in Victoria 2
I'm wondering how generals will be represented in Victoria 2. I know that you have a leadership score in Victoria, but with the new HoI3 system it would be nice if you could recruit them by appointing leadership points to officers/research and diplomacy (I don't know whether intelligence will be necessary). I also hope that your generals can gain experience this time (and maybe even traits), like in HoI3 and won't have the same stats during their entire career.
I'm wondering how generals will be represented in Victoria 2. I know that you have a leadership score in Victoria, but with the new HoI3 system it would be nice if you could recruit them by appointing leadership points to officers/research and diplomacy (I don't know whether intelligence will be necessary). I also hope that your generals can gain experience this time (and maybe even traits), like in HoI3 and won't have the same stats during their entire career.
Well, IMO it is even necessary for them to do so. There isn't a huge list of generals available during the Victoria 2 time period for most minor countries, so these will surely have to rely upon generic officers and thus in order to be able to measure up again well known generals must have the ability to gain experience and maybe rank.
While a tie-in to a leadership pool like in HOI3 seems like a good idea at first, I think Vicky did very well with just having officer pops. Maybe you could only promote very literate pops to officers and have their number limited by your general leadership, but I don't want to be able to shift from research to officers with a simple slider adjustment. Officers should stay an important factor in a country's politics, even if you don't need them at the moment.
The background and personality each general has in Vicky 1 seems fine, too, but it could certainly be expanded. Jungle Fighter, Hills Fighter and other trainable traits would make a nice addition. I'm not too sure about experience. A lot of generals won't gain much as they only fight a maximum of three major wars before they die of old age. I definitely don't want to see a skill level like in HOI2, where advancing to Field Marshall was tied to having lots of skill or starting at that rank level. I think all that would put too much emphasis on the military side of things.
Edit: Generating random leaders like in Vicky 1 is a must for most minors. I really like this feature for the great powers, too. It's not too ahistorical to get some other people have a shot at being a general during 100 years of gameplay, after all.
The background and personality each general has in Vicky 1 seems fine, too, but it could certainly be expanded. Jungle Fighter, Hills Fighter and other trainable traits would make a nice addition. I'm not too sure about experience. A lot of generals won't gain much as they only fight a maximum of three major wars before they die of old age. I definitely don't want to see a skill level like in HOI2, where advancing to Field Marshall was tied to having lots of skill or starting at that rank level. I think all that would put too much emphasis on the military side of things.
Edit: Generating random leaders like in Vicky 1 is a must for most minors. I really like this feature for the great powers, too. It's not too ahistorical to get some other people have a shot at being a general during 100 years of gameplay, after all.
I'll be happy once I can remove a general without having to replace him with another...
They can use mine and Semper Victor's leaderpictures!
I'd like that!
Talk about annoying minor glitches! :wacko:
Fortunately, that shouldn't be a problem for the Clausewitz engine.
Well, I think that you do need ranked officers. I believe the paradox already stated that the army system is similar to that of HoI3, that means you have different ranked generals as well to fill every layer of the army hierarchy. So I guess we will really need a skill system as in HoI3.
BTW the skill system has changed a lot from HoI2, you will no longer loose a skill level when promoting to a higher rank. Furthermore I think it is only just to have generals gain experience by either years in service (very slow) and by combat (rapid).
I'm not too familiar with the HOI3 system, but the info about not losing skill through promotion and your idea about gaining experience by years in service almost sold me on a ranked system.
We'd just have to make sure that the most famous generals get generated early enough to earn their reputation in the game, too. It might be fun to have Moltke stay a junior aide once in a while, but not every second game.
We'd just have to make sure that the most famous generals get generated early enough to earn their reputation in the game, too. It might be fun to have Moltke stay a junior aide once in a while, but not every second game.
The way officers worked in Vicky 1 was fine. I suspect we'll see something very similar in Vicky 2, maybe with something to help very small countries.