Megathread : Military Aspects of Victoria 2

MAHak said:

I'd liked to see a General Staff function in V 2.


Some of the 'great' generals from the Vicky era, like Helmuth Von Molkte, did not had their greatest moments on a battlefield, but behind a desk planning and sending orders to their field generals.

It could function something like this

You could add ,say, up to 5 generals to the Staff. Some may be colonial orientated, giving a bonus to ORG for troops stationed in colonies or reducing maintenance cost. Others maybe national defense orientated giving bonuses to troops stationed at home or improving their ability to reduce revolt risk for POPs.

Is this idea reasonable or will it change the military mechanics too much?

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This is a great idea, any customization of how your country is managed is welcome! I'd like to expand this "executive board" idea even to the government, something like appointing executives that give certain bonuses in their field. It's seen in many Paradox Games, and I always thought this was a great aspect of those games. In Hoi, obviously, you had the ministers. In Crusader Kings you had the court officials. In Rome you had the magistrates... Why not in Vicky? because if you removed the magistrates from rome, you'd still have individuals as generals, which would essentially be just like vicky, in terms of a level of individuality in certain aspects of a globally-oriented game. The same goes for HoI, if you removed the minister option, you'd still have individuals as generals, just like Vicky.

Performance-wise the individuals would be presented by the game automatically... in a monarchy you could name such individuals at your leisure, in a democracy they would appoint themselves according to election results, in a const. monarchy you could be given a limited choice of individuals and then appoint them as the HoS... many many excellent options would be gained by this

HMS Enterprize said:

Agreed. However, as well known, the whole combat system needs an overhaul (which Im sure it will get). The vicky system is simply too primative, ie- ships blasting away until one side's fleet is sunk. Even HOI2 level 'complexity' in a vicky combat system would be more than adequate.

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As usual, I agree with HMS Enterprise (why the US spelling by the way?). A more complex naval combat system is definitely in order, HOI2-style combat would be fine, although CAGs should be separate units.

Vaul said:

This is a great idea, any customization of how your country is managed is welcome! I'd like to expand this "executive board" idea even to the government, something like appointing executives that give certain bonuses in their field. It's seen in many Paradox Games, and I always thought this was a great aspect of those games. In Hoi, obviously, you had the ministers. In Crusader Kings you had the court officials. In Rome you had the magistrates... Why not in Vicky? because if you removed the magistrates from rome, you'd still have individuals as generals, which would essentially be just like vicky, in terms of a level of individuality in certain aspects of a globally-oriented game. The same goes for HoI, if you removed the minister option, you'd still have individuals as generals, just like Vicky.

Performance-wise the individuals would be presented by the game automatically... in a monarchy you could name such individuals at your leisure, in a democracy they would appoint themselves according to election results, in a const. monarchy you could be given a limited choice of individuals and then appoint them as the HoS... many many excellent options would be gained by this

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Sounds cool. I just hope Paradox are up for the challenge of researching all those ministers . . . . . . .

FOARP said:

Sounds cool. I just hope Paradox are up for the challenge of researching all those ministers . . . . . . .

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I don't imagine it to be too much of a problem, other that the work-hours investment. political figures are very well documented in that period of time, and the leading characters were very popular in the day. British prime ministers for example, Otto von Bismarck in Prussia and Germany, Austria-Hungary had many prominent political figures etc... If you walked into Westminster Abbey, you could satisfy the research requirements for prominent British political figures of the time just by writing down the names on the statues...

Vaul said:

I don't imagine it to be too much of a problem, other that the work-hours investment. political figures are very well documented in that period of time, and the leading characters were very popular in the day. British prime ministers for example, Otto von Bismarck in Prussia and Germany, Austria-Hungary had many prominent political figures etc... If you walked into Westminster Abbey, you could satisfy the research requirements for prominent British political figures of the time just by writing down the names on the statues...

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keep in mind you would also have to have alternative figures for each political ideological party you have in the nation, never mind having to create lists not only for major nations but minors as well.

Britain or Prussia might be easy, but how about an anarcho-liberal government in Siam or a fascist government in Sokoto???

FOARP said:

As usual, I agree with HMS Enterprise (why the US spelling by the way?).

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Some RN ships were spelt with the 'z' instead of the 's'...it seems pretty much at random until you start getting into the 19th Century.

I read somewhere once IIRC, that the term enterprize initially had a meaning more to do with a 'prize' (meaning gift or reward. Or in naval terms- a ship taken from another power) rather than the modern meaning of the word ie- project, endeavour, activity etc.

Dont take me as gospel on this tho, I have no recollection where I heard this. But Im pretty sure my brain didnt just make something that specific up!

If you watch the opening credits to the Star Trek show Enterprise you see a wood engraving of a ship called Enterprize. So my choice of spelling was an homage to my 2 great loves- Sci-fi and history.

OHgamer said:

keep in mind you would also have to have alternative figures for each political ideological party you have in the nation, never mind having to create lists not only for major nations but minors as well.

Britain or Prussia might be easy, but how about an anarcho-liberal government in Siam or a fascist government in Sokoto???

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Eeven less of a problem!!! As such figures didn't exist, imagination is the limit!

In Vicky 1 those nations only had 1 party, and even if they had multiple parties, they would be named something generic like "The Socialist Party"

I see no problem for the same approach to political figures.

But to be fair, prominent political figures in "primitive" nations were very highly regarded in their society (them being aristocrats of immense wealth and prestige), and I wouldn't be surprised at the same high regard in their history books.

Vaul said:

Eeven less of a problem!!! As such figures didn't exist, imagination is the limit!

In Vicky 1 those nations only had 1 party, and even if they had multiple parties, they would be named something generic like "The Socialist Party"

I see no problem for the same approach to political figures.

But to be fair, prominent political figures in "primitive" nations were very highly regarded in their society (them being aristocrats of immense wealth and prestige), and I wouldn't be surprised at the same high regard in their history books.

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I could just about see a system where you have at the very most 2-3 offices, and as selection of the most famous ministers of that period for each country to choose from (Bismark, Grant, Disraeli, Thiers, Clemenceau, Gladstone, Lenin, etc.) with certain ideologies which they wouldn't be able to serve under (e.g., Lloyd George wouldn't serve under a communist government, but Kier Hardie would). Still, it might be difficult to find pictures or even portraits dating back to 1836 for the two or three most famous politicians of each country in each generation. This would be a task at least as difficult as compiling the party lists used in HOI.

On the matter of generals, though, I think the task is much more simple as they do not vary with the political party which is in power, and they should definitely be included with proper pictures.

OHgamer said:

keep in mind you would also have to have alternative figures for each political ideological party you have in the nation, never mind having to create lists not only for major nations but minors as well.

Britain or Prussia might be easy, but how about an anarcho-liberal government in Siam or a fascist government in Sokoto???

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well nobody plays those nations, most just go for europe so the team should focus on that?

And then there'd be complaints about how the game was too focussed on a few great powers and how everyone else is underdone... If VIP has shown anything, it's that there's an interest in just about any obscure backwater and people willing to put in the effort to have it represented at its best. Admittedly it's more important that the UK, France, USA, Prussia etc are right; but it would be presumptuous to say they're the only nations anyone will play - what about Brazil, Japan, China, Persia, even humble Krakow?

Nothing Better Than to Whip Up On Ol' Vicki

Capt. Kiwi said:

And then there'd be complaints about how the game was too focussed on a few great powers and how everyone else is underdone... If VIP has shown anything, it's that there's an interest in just about any obscure backwater and people willing to put in the effort to have it represented at its best. Admittedly it's more important that the UK, France, USA, Prussia etc are right; but it would be presumptuous to say they're the only nations anyone will play - what about Brazil, Japan, China, Persia, even humble Krakow?

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I like nothing better than to Play South Africa and whip up on Ol' Vicki when she comes a callin' Yeah, it's hard to duplicate often but I like to hand out medals for those who play hard......

mmccomber said:

I like nothing better than to Play South Africa and whip up on Ol' Vicki when she comes a callin' Yeah, it's hard to duplicate often but I like to hand out medals for those who play hard......

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I've always like the idea of playing a 'Greater' Boer state, one that expanded beyond its historical extent. Hopefully with the apparently improved migration system, this will be more feasible, because as it is, it's difficult to coax people into actually moving into the new land.

I wouldn't mind having increasing types of troops. V1 had the right idea with the gradual introduction of engineers, HQs etc. Battalions, no thanks.

What I would like is a cost to upgrade your existing units. That is to say, if you've developed, say, machine guns, all your infantry units shouldn't get them overnight, for free.

Unit names

Sry for repetition if it's already been mentioned, but it would be nice to see

A.
The infantry unit names broken up so that artillery, engineers, HQs, etc, are named appropriately instead of simply becoming 101st Infantry Division. (This is totally independent of whether they are represented differently or continue to be add-ons. Regardless, the names should be distinct from the vanilla infantry units.)

B.
On the other hand, some of the naval units should have their names drawn from the same pool rather than totally separate lists. Going from the Ricky selection PCs and CLs; CA1s, CA2s, and CV1s; BC1s and BC2s; and DNs, BB1s, & BB2s should share unitname lists with one another. Similarly subs, even if their improvements lead to different models.

C.
A better running tally, so each new order of battleships doesn't start Battleship #1, #2, etc, but with the actual number so far constructed.

D.
Inclusion of VIP or Schnee0's unit names. Mebbe sth from my Texas and Cali lists. Maybe a generic pool for English and Spanish language ships for all the various countries (adjs & nouns like Resolute and Independencia, animals, fish, Greeks and Romans, etc.)

is there a decent statistics panel in this game, like AoD?

The link in my signature has some pretty good ideas.

What I'd like, but don't know how it would be implemented, is the ability to manage battles. I'm designing a board game (for my own amusement) based off of Victoria II, and it has a map for each district (province) broken into tiles. How much effort and computer power would this probably take? A ton. The map would allow you to move your brigades during the battle, fight over strategic points, etcetera. But this is really something that can only be expected from Victoria III or IV; even Hearts of Iron doesn't have that.

Of course, if you don't feel right with managing tactics, you could automate it, along with automating other levels of the military. (Like having each General be commanded by the AI.)

Using the current system, trench warfare could easily be represented. Y'know how in Europa Universalis, provinces with walls have a garrison that you can choose to siege or assault? Same principle. Any time a regiment is in a province (whether or not it's fighting at the moment), it can "entrench", the ability to taking a while and adding one level of trench. Then, regiments can be ordered into the trenches so long as there is space. Engineers will be extra-efficient at digging trenches, and the AI will make sure to create defensive lines of trenches and also entrench during battles.

Trench warfare reduces the amount of damage you receive by a VERY large margin. In a province where two hostile armies are entrenched, neither side will take much damage. This leads to you having either the option of waiting for a very long time, or attempting to assault the enemy trenches.

Bombardment is the first step to a successful assault; your entrenched artillery will bombard the enemy trenches, inflicting moderate amounts of casualties, heavily damaging morale, and damaging the trenches (damaged trenches provide less of a defensive bonus, and give a greater chance of success in the infantry assault). Next, you can Assault; artillery involved in an Assault will suppress the enemy (reduces your casualties), while your infantry will actually launch the attack and, if successful, seize the trenches. You'll have to keep in mind, though, that the damaged trenches you easily took are just as vulnerable to an enemy counterattack, so you need to quickly re-fortify.

Stormtrooper units are infantry that are better at assaulting trenches. Tanks will be able to by-pass a trench entirely, making them just as powerful as they were in reality.