Are we going to have a completely brand new engine or EUIII style re-used engine?

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IndoEsia45

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May 18, 2007
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As far as I can see in HoI3 demo Paradox is mainly re-using, re-improved, and re-modified Europa Universalis III engine. The mechanism on how to choose a country in the first start, the decision mechanism, even how the battle is pictured. The battle screen is on left-bottom-side of the window which is the same as EU3 family. Well, I only play demo and not the full game so I might not see other things but overall I can really feel EU3 inside HoI3.

Now, will this same of thing happen with Vicky 2 or we're going to have a completely brand new engine for Vicky 2? In my most humblest opinion, I still think Vicky and HoI2 looks is better than EU3 feeling of engine.

What do you think fellow Paradoxians?
 
As far as I can see in HoI3 demo Paradox is mainly re-using, re-improved, and re-modified Europa Universalis III engine. The mechanism on how to choose a country in the first start, the decision mechanism, even how the battle is pictured. The battle screen is on left-bottom-side of the window which is the same as EU3 family. Well, I only play demo and not the full game so I might not see other things but overall I can really feel EU3 inside HoI3.

Now, will this same of thing happen with Vicky 2 or we're going to have a completely brand new engine for Vicky 2? In my most humblest opinion, I still think Vicky and HoI2 looks is better than EU3 feeling of engine.

What do you think fellow Paradoxians?

I believe that the odds of a completely brand new engine are pretty low, but that is just my opinion.
 
I just hate HOI 3 for beeing an acctual clone of EU 3. Its so obvious, if I let out the map, then there are loads of things where you can see that there is no real difference.

-The cursor (The only difference is the color)
-Occupied provinces (The same thing as in EU 3)
-The spirties (The same one man standing for a whole army)
-Bugs based on EU 3 (You can be at the same time an ally and at war, which could happen in EU 3. Like if 2 nations are at war and both guarantee a country which is attacked will end up being allies still at war).

Im really dissapointed over HOI 3 which looks a lot more then an EU 3 mod then a standalone game. The games like CK, EU 2, Vicotoria and HOI 2, were all totaly different from eachother, I liked that really much. Even if the games were based on a same engine you have done a great work to HIDE IT. So I would greatly appricate it not to get another clone of EU 3.
 
I must say I like the engine and I think it will suit Vicky2 well, with some modifications of course. I also have to disagree that HoI3 looks like a mod of EU3; have you really played them? While I'm not that familiar with HoI3 it looks totally different and has loads of features that are completely detached from the way EU3 works.
Of course missions, decisions and the sort will be in and are pretty much a given thing right now, as well as the 3D mode and the way the game is played. But isn't that really all that will be similar? If you look at Vicky/Eu2/CK they also had a lot of similar points, the way the maps worked, the ledger pages, the way events worked...
 
I must say I like the engine and I think it will suit Vicky2 well, with some modifications of course. I also have to disagree that HoI3 looks like a mod of EU3; have you really played them? While I'm not that familiar with HoI3 it looks totally different and has loads of features that are completely detached from the way EU3 works.
Of course missions, decisions and the sort will be in and are pretty much a given thing right now, as well as the 3D mode and the way the game is played. But isn't that really all that will be similar? If you look at Vicky/Eu2/CK they also had a lot of similar points, the way the maps worked, the ledger pages, the way events worked...

Those games look totaly different and worked totaly different. How the map and ledger pages worked isnt really a part of the game which should be different dont you think. Im not complaining about that (O man the map looks similar its still the old terra!!!! Seriously map and ledger are things which are supposted to look similar).

And i really must ask you if you did try HOI 3 cause it looks atleast 60% similar to EU 3, except the really essential things which make the game a HOI (WW2 scenario, untis, tech research...).
 
And i really must ask you if you did try HOI 3 cause it looks atleast 60% similar to EU 3, except the really essential things which make the game a HOI (WW2 scenario, untis, tech research...).

That's what I mean; I disagree with you when you say all Europa-engine games looked different, if they really did we wouldn't even classify them as Europa-engine games. A lot of things were similar, and what made them different was the general look of the game and the core stuff that made each game work the way it should be for its historical setting (I can't say a thing about HoI2 as I've never played, and probably never will).

I've tried HoI3 briefly and I must agree it obviously looks like a Clausewitz-engine game, but isn't that to be expected? PI worked a lot on this engine, and would it really be necessary to change it that much to make HoI3 a functional game? IMHO, no.

I just hope Vicky2 has all the main features of Vicky1, I trust the engine will suit the game perfectly. The moddability is also very high, and that's a strong point. It may look the same; but if you have to play it differently, it's not the same game. :)
 
That's what I mean; I disagree with you when you say all Europa-engine games looked different, if they really did we wouldn't even classify them as Europa-engine games. A lot of things were similar, and what made them different was the general look of the game and the core stuff that made each game work the way it should be for its historical setting (I can't say a thing about HoI2 as I've never played, and probably never will).

I've tried HoI3 briefly and I must agree it obviously looks like a Clausewitz-engine game, but isn't that to be expected? PI worked a lot on this engine, and would it really be necessary to change it that much to make HoI3 a functional game? IMHO, no.

I just hope Vicky2 has all the main features of Vicky1, I trust the engine will suit the game perfectly. The moddability is also very high, and that's a strong point. It may look the same; but if you have to play it differently, it's not the same game. :)

No it isnt to be expected that the game looks like its predecessor. If any game has a seqel then it normally looks totaly different (Atleast that much, so you can say, yes thats a totaly new game and not cheap rip off from an already exsisting game which was relsed half a year ago). I really hoped hoi 3 would look much more like hoi 2 (With 3D graphics that is) and not like eu 3. If i compare the 2 games i get more of a eu 3 feeling then a hoi 2 feeling.

There were no similarities between CK/HOI 2/Victoria/EU 2. All games were totaly different in all aspects, graphics, warfare, economic system, state... And how the ledger works or how the map works cant be counted as a similartiy, because you cant do much about it to make it work better as it is allready working.
 
There were no similarities between CK/HOI 2/Victoria/EU 2. All games were totaly different in all aspects, graphics, warfare, economic system, state...
What? Of course there were similarities when they were based off the same engine. Some of these were blindingly obvious (graphics, interface, regimental systems, diplomacy, etc) and others were 'under the hood' in the workings of the engine itself
 
What? Of course there were similarities when they were based off the same engine. Some of these were blindingly obvious (graphics, interface, regimental systems, diplomacy, etc) and others were 'under the hood' in the workings of the engine itself

Show me one similarity between any of this games. And as I did already say even if any of those were based on the same engine, it was very well hidden, so it doesnt count. While when looking at EU 3 and HOI 3 its totaly obvious.
 
There were no similarities between CK/HOI 2/Victoria/EU 2. All games were totaly different in all aspects, graphics, warfare, economic system, state... And how the ledger works or how the map works cant be counted as a similartiy, because you cant do much about it to make it work better as it is allready working.

The flags were pretty similar... And the minimap.

And of the things you mention warfare, economic system and state are all pretty different in HoI3 than in EU3. Some graphic aspects are the same yes. But these two points:

Delex said:
-Occupied provinces (The same thing as in EU 3)
-The spirties (The same one man standing for a whole army)

can't be counted according to yourself because they're part of how the map works.
 
europa engine simply felt more natural and intuitive. Things where you cursor was standing were sure to be clicked, the sprites looked better on them aswell. EU3 and HOI3 feel kinda sticky you know.

Europa engine is simply the best, specially in victoria and eu2 versions, and i would love it if they made this in a engine similar to that.

why? Because we do not need fancy new graphics we do not need fancy new looks, we need improvement, new features, new additions to gameplay. Thats what people playing these games want, not some fancy new 3d map.
 
europa engine simply felt more natural and intuitive. Things where you cursor was standing were sure to be clicked, the sprites looked better on them aswell. EU3 and HOI3 feel kinda sticky you know.

Europa engine is simply the best, specially in victoria and eu2 versions, and i would love it if they made this in a engine similar to that.

why? Because we do not need fancy new graphics we do not need fancy new looks, we need improvement, new features, new additions to gameplay. Thats what people playing these games want, not some fancy new 3d map.

Yes, but PI is not reaching to people who already play the game (and are going to buy the new one anyway), they're reaching to the whole market out there. And you need good graphics to sell nowadays. Unfortunately so, if I may say...

Not that I want the graphics, couldn't care less about them really, it's not something I look for in a game. Just stating a fact. Most friends I show Vicky1 to immediately go "sheesh, is this really worth it? looks kinda old". Mentalities...
 
europa engine simply felt more natural and intuitive. Things where you cursor was standing were sure to be clicked, the sprites looked better on them aswell. EU3 and HOI3 feel kinda sticky you know.

Europa engine is simply the best, specially in victoria and eu2 versions, and i would love it if they made this in a engine similar to that.

why? Because we do not need fancy new graphics we do not need fancy new looks, we need improvement, new features, new additions to gameplay. Thats what people playing these games want, not some fancy new 3d map.

That's all well and good, but there's no point in posting this as we know they are going to use the Clausewitz engine.
 
The flags were pretty similar... And the minimap.

And of the things you mention warfare, economic system and state are all pretty different in HoI3 than in EU3. Some graphic aspects are the same yes. But these two points:

can't be counted according to yourself because they're part of how the map works.

So you are saying that the EU 2 shields/CK 2 shields looked similar and that Victoria flags, which changed if you changed your goverment type and hoi 2 flags which didnt change if you have done that? And you cant change flags if you want to keep a historically accurate game, so its not really a topic which could be majorly exploited.

The minimap is similar lol? Are you serious :rofl:. The minimap will allways show the same thing if its about that, execpet if you live on mars. Then again the minimpas are different:
-CK shows only Europe/most of the Middle east and North Africa
-EU 2 shows the world, but its had to be uncovered before you could see the whole map
-Victoria normal world map altrough features terrain (Like yelow in Africa for desert)
-HOI 2 map shows day/night time on the world but it doesnt feature terrain

And I never said that it doesnt count how the map works, but how it looks (I did expect a 3D map, would be strange if it wouldnt have it). Its you who are saying that not me. Occupation of provinces was allso featured differently in most of the games.

EDIT-
Taylor-I couldnt care less if they used the engine there, but it would really sux if they made another EU 3 clone.
 
Show me one similarity between any of this games. And as I did already say even if any of those were based on the same engine, it was very well hidden, so it doesnt count. While when looking at EU 3 and HOI 3 its totaly obvious.
How about the 2D maps, event mechanics, interface (F10, bar to the side, minimap, event log, resources to the top), game mechanics (realtime with pause, arrows for movement, etc), division structure (Vicky from Vicky onwards), player rankings at end game... and that's just a few off the top of my head. I mean, you really see no similarities whatsoever between this and this?
 
So you are saying that the EU 2 shields/CK 2 shields looked similar and that Victoria flags, which changed if you changed your goverment type and hoi 2 flags which didnt change if you have done that? And you cant change flags if you want to keep a historically accurate game, so its not really a topic which could be majorly exploited.

Well I don't know CK that well, but between EU2, Vicky and HoI2 the flags of the armies were very similar. You could even just copy a flag from EU2 to Vicky, and it would work fine. And from Vicky to HoI2, the shields were very similar, although indeed the flags couldn't change in HoI2 :(. Still the way they were displayed was very similar (not talking about the actual flags themselves of course, that would be ridiculous).

Another similarity I just thought of was, IIRC, that in CK the armies were also represented by a single man, just like in EU2.

And I never said that it doesnt count how the map works, but how it looks (I did expect a 3D map, would be strange if it wouldnt have it). Its you who are saying that not me. Occupation of provinces was allso featured differently in most of the games.

Well the map in EU3 looks completely different than in HoI3, don't you think?

I was a bit confused as to exactly which parts of the game you want the mechanics to count and which parts not. Because you also said that, apart from "graphics", "warfare, economic system, state" are completely different between CK, EU2, Vic, HoI2; but when talking about the map, suddenly how it works doesn't count anymore.

All in all, IMO, HoI3 is lot more similar to HoI2 than it is to EU3; and EU3 is a lot more similar to EU2 than it is to HoI3. Both in appearance, and in gameplay.

EDIT-
Taylor-I couldnt care less if they used the engine there, but it would really sux if they made another EU 3 clone.

Yes that would suck, but I'm sure they won't do that, the mockup Johan posted looked quite good.
 
How about the 2D maps, event mechanics, interface (F10, bar to the side, minimap, event log, resources to the top), game mechanics (realtime with pause, arrows for movement, etc), division structure (Vicky from Vicky onwards), player rankings at end game... and that's just a few off the top of my head. I mean, you really see no similarities whatsoever between this and this?

-How the map looks doesnt count as i allready said in the comparison of hoi 3 to eu 3 (Reffering to 2D maps).
-Even mechanics are different with different commands and different looks for the event windows
-F10 is only used to enter console commands or cheats, so if you are not a cheater or a modder you shodnt even use the feature.
-To the side on the top? So you would prefer them in the middle of the screen so they cover your sight right? Things made for pratical resons and better gamplay cant be counted as a similarty but a MUST.
-Game mechanics also stay the same for pratical resons, well except for some wonderguys as maybe you are paradox could make an exception so instead using the arrows you could use the numbers 1234. Since that is probably easier for you (Altroguh I do miss the option to change your controls).
-Division structure is simplfied, so it may apper similary, but it isnt.
-Player rankings on the end are displayed different for every game (Just maybe not of CK-EU 2 bit it still uses different graphics). And you didnt notice?

No I really dont see any similarities. If there were made any, then only for pratical resons and for better gamplay (So you can easier overlook the situation).
 
No I really dont see any similarities. If there were made any, then only for pratical resons and for better gamplay (So you can easier overlook the situation).

I think it's all a matter of you not seeing them. Different opinions. I outright see them, and other people in this thread too, as it seems.

This said, since it's given the game will be using the Clausewitz engine, I don't think there's much point to argue any further...
 
You know, let's just agree to disagree (i don't think anyone is going to get convinced anyway). Currently, we're talking about games that are not Victoria 2, so it's a bit OT. Let's just see what they make of it and judge them by that.