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Thread: Megathread : Events, Decisions & Missions in Victoria 2

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    Panzerberserker Galleblære's Avatar
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    Megathread : Events, Decisions & Missions in Victoria 2

    Reading here, there seems to be a lot of arguments about for and against decisions. The way I see it, they are almost the one and the same, but the pop up events we had before allowed for several choices, while decisions seem to be more of a one shot deal.

    What I was thinking, why not have clicking decisions generate an appropriate event with choices. That will give the game more of a Victoria/EU2 feel. Perhaps a game setting can even have decisions be auto-clicked (for the player) if all requirements are met on the historical date.

    In addition, maybe its time to include a setting where you can decide how likely the AI is to go for ahistorical choices in events. Settings are good!
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    Victoria's Plastic Surgeon OHgamer's Avatar
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    if you look at the modding work already being done on HoI3, the ability to make decisions more "event like" already exists. One guy has created a Xian incident that gives the player of Nat China three or four options, with different AI weighings as to what will be chosen.

    Decisions are not all that different from events, with the exception that the trigger coding is more flexible. But don't be fooled, they can have many options for the player who gets them, and at least in HoI3 the ai_chance element to choose a specific option in a decision works, which bodes well for Vicky 2 IMHO

    It's not really an either-or proposition here.
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    Generalfeldmarschall RELee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHgamer View Post
    if you look at the modding work already being done on HoI3, the ability to make decisions more "event like" already exists. One guy has created a Xian incident that gives the player of Nat China three or four options, with different AI weighings as to what will be chosen.

    Decisions are not all that different from events, with the exception that the trigger coding is more flexible. But don't be fooled, they can have many options for the player who gets them, and at least in HoI3 the ai_chance element to choose a specific option in a decision works, which bodes well for Vicky 2 IMHO
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    First Lieutenant Vara Del Rey's Avatar
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    There is no reason why the game can not include both decisions and events with several choices to choose from for both. It would make the game more fun and interesting for those of us who like the period, but are not crazy about the micromanagement of the POPS.

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    I think decisions and events are two very different things.
    Events are good for unexpected .. well, events, things that are out of the nations control, where something happens and you only get to choose how to react to it.
    A decision is different, they are things that the nation itself triggers, things that are within the control of a nation. Having options for a decision doesn't really make sense, though having several decisions on the same topic does.

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    Victoria's Plastic Surgeon OHgamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flooper X View Post
    I think decisions and events are two very different things.
    Events are good for unexpected .. well, events, things that are out of the nations control, where something happens and you only get to choose how to react to it.
    A decision is different, they are things that the nation itself triggers, things that are within the control of a nation. Having options for a decision doesn't really make sense, though having several decisions on the same topic does.
    I'd agree. Decisions are good for "macro" processes or changes of major geopolitical or socioeconomic transformation. Instituting major political reforms, undertaking national unification (to form Germany or Italy for ex), proclaiming regions colonies/protectorates would be on the decision level IMHO.

    If Vicky 2 has both, then I think we'll have a great balance that can be developed and elaborated on even further.
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    Victoria has so far worked very well without 'decisions', why would the new version have to suffer under the yoke of those silly decisions!
    Down with decisions, I want events with long texts!
    Ok, I'm just too excited about V2.

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    I'm for a good mix of both, as said macro events are better as decisions, and micro events better as events. Though decisions can have multiple options too, if properly done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flooper X View Post
    I think decisions and events are two very different things.
    Events are good for unexpected .. well, events, things that are out of the nations control, where something happens and you only get to choose how to react to it.
    A decision is different, they are things that the nation itself triggers, things that are within the control of a nation. Having options for a decision doesn't really make sense, though having several decisions on the same topic does.
    Mind you, I haven't played HoI3 beyond the demo, but the decisions could then perhaps use a makeover. If there are several mutual exclusive decisions, make this more apparent to the player.. and as such I think an event pop up box initiated by clicking on a decision would be a nice feature. There the various options for a direction you want to push your country is listed, with perhaps a last option for "do nothing".

    A pop up box with a relevant picture perhaps, where you can mouse over big buttons to see the effects is more visually appealing when you make the country decision, than having to mouse over a tiny accept button to see what the decision does.
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    Well, Vicky seems to me to be a game that is inherently less driven by the historicity versus ahistoricity argument (oh crap, did I just use those two words in one sentence? Shoot me). What I mean is that I don't think Vicky2 needs events to drive historic actions and outcomes in the same way the HOI series does, instead the decisions let the player decide what kind of empire their country becomes.

    If I am reading OHgamer right, I think he nails with his definitions of events vs. decisions. The way I understood his point (and the way I view it) is:
    Events = strategic, high-level concepts
    Decisions = tactical, immediate "boots on the ground" concepts

    Or I could be totally out in left field - still catching up after playing hooky from work yesterday.

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    Field Marshal Flooper X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aubrey View Post
    Well, Vicky seems to me to be a game that is inherently less driven by the historicity versus ahistoricity argument (oh crap, did I just use those two words in one sentence? Shoot me). What I mean is that I don't think Vicky2 needs events to drive historic actions and outcomes in the same way the HOI series does, instead the decisions let the player decide what kind of empire their country becomes.

    If I am reading OHgamer right, I think he nails with his definitions of events vs. decisions. The way I understood his point (and the way I view it) is:
    Events = strategic, high-level concepts
    Decisions = tactical, immediate "boots on the ground" concepts

    Or I could be totally out in left field - still catching up after playing hooky from work yesterday.
    I'd say:
    Decisions = Actions
    Events = Reactions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flooper X View Post
    I'd say:
    Decisions = Actions
    Events = Reactions
    Instead of having 3-4 mutually exclusive decisions, why not have one decision that generates a pop up box where the choices are explored in more detail and text? In the HoI3 demo you need to mouse over a tiny "check" mark to see the different effects. A pop up event type box (after you click the decision) can give more historical flavor through images and text.
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    Field Marshal Flooper X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galleblære View Post
    Instead of having 3-4 mutually exclusive decisions, why not have one decision that generates a pop up box where the choices are explored in more detail and text? In the HoI3 demo you need to mouse over a tiny "check" mark to see the different effects. A pop up event type box (after you click the decision) can give more historical flavor through images and text.
    Yeah, it could work, but really is it more difficult to hover over the button to activate the decision to see the consequences than hovering over a button in an event?

    Though categorizing might be useful to make it less chaotic, I know from MMP having a lot of decisions makes it hard to find the one you're looking for (and compare it to others that are mutually exclusive)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Down with decisions, I want events with long texts!
    Actually in HoI3, while there are not many decisions, the ones that are there are usually accompanied by a healthy amount of text (actually i think the same text that the corresponding events had in HoI2).

    On the topic of the original post:

    Imho the thread is not really grasping the issue correctly anyways. Decisions and Events are both fine, as long as there are
    -historically rooted ones (HoI has historical decisions, but generic events)
    -a lot of them (HoI has just a very few decisions for the majors and it seems a modest amount of generic events)

    Thats where EU3 was -and HoI3 is- lacking. But the feature announcement bodes well, and eventually modders will solve it, anyways, if it proves to be not satisfactory.

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    A healthy dose of both is in order, as I personally spend more time on internal affairs in Vicky than on conquest. And events/decisions enrich that time quite nicely.

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    They do different things.

    EU certainly used decisions to be able to re-create historical situations even where the natural gameplay didn't exactly result in a perfect situation for an event to occur.

    Want a WW1 even though it's not really headed that way? Make some decisions. Get in bed with France, antagonise Austria, guarantee Serbia, support pan-Slavism.

    Wanna invest in discovering the source of the Nile? How about the South Pole?

    That kind of thing.

    Events are more of a generic thing; oh, look, our ship X ran aground. Oh, look, revolts in X due to Y!

    For those wanting long descriptive texts, those could be small events tied to decisions - you make the decision, you set the flag, text pops up.

    It's useful to have both, in short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flooper X View Post
    I think decisions and events are two very different things.
    Events are good for unexpected .. well, events, things that are out of the nations control, where something happens and you only get to choose how to react to it.
    A decision is different, they are things that the nation itself triggers, things that are within the control of a nation. Having options for a decision doesn't really make sense, though having several decisions on the same topic does.
    I can agree with that. Starting the Crimean War would be a good decision for Russia, on the other hand, secession should be a pop up event for USA (triggered by national conditions).

    Rather than fight amongst each over decisions vs events, real fans should unite and fight for the principle of having more, not fewer event/decisions!

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    Colonel angj57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flooper X View Post
    I think decisions and events are two very different things.
    Events are good for unexpected .. well, events, things that are out of the nations control, where something happens and you only get to choose how to react to it.
    A decision is different, they are things that the nation itself triggers, things that are within the control of a nation. Having options for a decision doesn't really make sense, though having several decisions on the same topic does.
    I can agree with that. Starting the Crimean War would be a good decision for Russia, on the other hand, secession should be a pop up event for USA (triggered by national conditions).

    Rather than fight amongst each over decisions vs events, real fans should unite and fight for the principle of having more, not fewer event/decisions!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flooper X View Post
    I think decisions and events are two very different things.
    Events are good for unexpected .. well, events, things that are out of the nations control, where something happens and you only get to choose how to react to it.
    A decision is different, they are things that the nation itself triggers, things that are within the control of a nation. Having options for a decision doesn't really make sense, though having several decisions on the same topic does.
    This is pretty much how I'd look at it, though I'd say decisions should, in certain circumstances, have multiple choices (a decision triggering an event may be the easiest way to do that, and bonus for being currently possible).

    An example would be a decision to restaff your foreign ministry, and then an event pops up asking what major powers/isolationist route you plan to go for.

    It's still all within the overarching framework of:
    "Pure" Events = uncontrolled (you have no choice) and unexpected (choices, maybe limited)
    Decisions = Acts/Policies of the Gov't

    Edit: main reason to have a decision with multiple options vs multiple decisions, is just to reduce clutter, and improve the UI.
    Last edited by CirMag; 20-08-2009 at 09:33.

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